Catholic and Christians

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mikew262 said:
Ok, we can substitute the word belief for opinion. I have no problem with that. However, I still stand by what I said.
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Then my complaint is resolved.
You have a deep Catholic bias which is certainly not a bad thing. However, your “belief” appears to leave no room for non-catholic Christians and their sincere “belief” that they are right.
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I think you’re confusing me with someone else.

Jeremy
 
mikew262 said:
While, I’m a Catholic, I tend to be a little more tolerant of fellow Christians and not so fast in deciding they are automatically wrong and we are automatically right in all things pertaining to God.

I believe the way I believe, but I try not to pass judgement on somebody else’s beliefs. I think if more people believed this way, we’d have lot less strife in the world. I think God would agree (at least I hope so).
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I didn’t say Protestants were wrong or right. I merely asserted that in order to be called a Christian one should be a follower of Christ. He only founded one Church.

He sent His Holy Spirit to guide His church until He returns.

Anybody can believe anything they want and follow whomever they want. However, if they’re going to be a true follower of Christ and call themselves Christians, they should follow His Church. Not a man-made church or belief.
 
CHRISTIAN: A name derived from that of Christ himself. The name refers to all those who have been anointed through the gift of the Holy Spirit in Baptism; hence, the followers of Christ, the members of the Christian Church. According to Acts 11:26 “it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians” (1289). --From the Catechism.

Some have chosen to leave the Church which Christ instituted, though they do their best to follow many of His teachings. Many protestants today do not even understand why the men who invented their own churches during the reformation did so. They are in error, but no less Christian.
 
kell0618 said:
CHRISTIAN: A name derived from that of Christ himself. The name refers to all those who have been anointed through the gift of the Holy Spirit in Baptism; hence, the followers of Christ, the members of the Christian Church. According to Acts 11:26 “it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians” (1289). --From the Catechism.

Some have chosen to leave the Church which Christ instituted, though they do their best to follow many of His teachings. Many protestants today do not even understand why the men who invented their own churches during the reformation did so. They are in error, but no less Christian.
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Okay,
I can live with this.
Thanks for the citation to the catechism
 
The Catholic Church recognizes as valid the baptisms of most Christian churches, so Protestants are considered Christians, but lack the fullness of the faith.
 
kell0618 said:
They are in error, but no less Christian.
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I was with you up until here.

Protestantism is indeed less Christian than Catholicism, and by implication someone who faithfully follows protestant theology is less Christian than one who faithfully follows the Catholic Church.

Uniquely protestant theology is un-Christian, the only reason the church has chosen to consider them Christian is because they still retain an acceptable degree of true Christian theology, namely their belief in the Trinity.
 
Catholics ARE always Christian
But
Christians are NOT always Catholic.
 
levi86 said:
I was with you up until here.

Protestantism is indeed less Christian than Catholicism, and by implication someone who faithfully follows protestant theology is less Christian than one who faithfully follows the Catholic Church.

Uniquely protestant theology is un-Christian, the only reason the church has chosen to consider them Christian is because they still retain an acceptable degree of true Christian theology, namely their belief in the Trinity.
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“Christian” is a binary ontological value: either a person is a Christian, or he is not a Christian. There is no such thing as “more Christian” or “less Christian.”

The “fulness of Christianity,” on the other hand, is an analog value, and can increase or decrease depending on which Church or ecclesial community a person involves himself with.

Jeremy
 
levi86 said:
I was with you up until here.

Protestantism is indeed less Christian than Catholicism, and by implication someone who faithfully follows protestant theology is less Christian than one who faithfully follows the Catholic Church.

Uniquely protestant theology is un-Christian, the only reason the church has chosen to consider them Christian is because they still retain an acceptable degree of true Christian theology, namely their belief in the Trinity.
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In your opinion.
 
levi86 said:
I was with you up until here.

Protestantism is indeed less Christian than Catholicism, and by implication someone who faithfully follows protestant theology is less Christian than one who faithfully follows the Catholic Church.

Uniquely protestant theology is un-Christian, the only reason the church has chosen to consider them Christian is because they still retain an acceptable degree of true Christian theology, namely their belief in the Trinity.
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I don’t think they are LESS Christian. You are made 100% Christian at your baptism. Baptism marks your soul, like an impression in wax. You can never not be Christian once you are baptised as such.

However, they are Christians who are in error. Some in grave error. Some error that is leading them down the wrong path. But Christians, none the less.
 
levi86 said:
Uniquely protestant theology is un-Christian, the only reason the church has chosen to consider them Christian is because they still retain an acceptable degree of true Christian theology, namely their belief in the Trinity.
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So, Protestants who don’t believe in the Trinity are not considered Christians? Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Unitarians, to name a few.
 
timjp77 said:
So, Protestants who don’t believe in the Trinity are not considered Christians? Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Unitarians, to name a few.
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Not if thier baptisms are invalid.

Assuming they somehow had a valid baptism (I know Rome has ruled all Mormon ones invalid) then they are Christians.
 
mikew262 said:
In your opinion.
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Because I was merely responding to a suggestion first made by another poster it is appropriate for any opinion in favour of the affirmative to be supported by church documents, other than a very fallible interpretation of CCC 1289.

I think its rather hypocritical for you criticise my opinion without being able to substantiate yours.
 
levi86 said:
Because I was merely responding to a suggestion first made by another poster it is appropriate for any opinion in favour of the affirmative to be supported by church documents, other than a very fallible interpretation of CCC 1289.

I think its rather hypocritical for you criticise my opinion without being able to substantiate yours.
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Don’t get defensive. All I was saying is that is your opinion and not necessarily fact. You are welcome to your opinion, just I am welcome to mine.

I happen to think your assumption that Protestant theology is un-Christian is wrong. Protestants are baptized and follow Christ. Sounds Christian to me.
 
timjp77 said:
So, Protestants who don’t believe in the Trinity are not considered Christians? Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Unitarians, to name a few.
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Actually I think officially those groups are considered “pseudo-christian.” Not holding to the concept of the Trinity usually excludes the use of a trinitarian baptismal formula. Thus they are not part of The Church even though they hold to Christian -like beliefs.

There is also at least one pentecostal/charismatic evangelical group that falls into this category. Those are the “Apostolics” they baptise “In the name of Jesus only”. Thus their baptisms are not valid baptisms.
 
mikew262 said:
Don’t get defensive. All I was saying is that is your opinion and not necessarily fact.
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And I’m still here to remind you that truth does not determine factuality. If it’s false, it’s a fact. If it’s true, it’s a fact. It cannot be “opinion” or “fact” depending on its truth value.

He’s talking about his beliefs, not his opinions.

Jeremy
 
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