Catholic and Democrat?

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estesbob said:
Surely you are not suggsting that our Church puts opposing War and the Death Penatly on the same moral plain with Abortion? Our Church clearly states that support for politcians who support the former is fine, support for those who support the latter is not.
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I’m not suggesting anything of the sort. You said the man supports the commandment “Thou Shall Not Kill”. If he does, I am assuming he means though shalt not EVER kill. If so, I think he is a wonderful politician, and I would vote for someone like that in a heartbeat.
 
This thread has been very helpful to me in deciding how to vote in the upcoming elections.
I appreciate everybody’s (name removed by moderator)ut.
It’s clear to me that stopping abortion is the first step in cleaning up our act. Once we stop killing the next generations, we can work on lifting them out of poverty, educating and feeding them, etc. The Republicans are not perfect, but there is no getting around the fact that they are our only hope at present of getting rid of abortion. As long as it remains legal, it will be morally acceptable to many.
 
Chris_G said:
The only orthodox Catholics that vote for the Democrat are the ones that don’t understand that tax cuts DO help the poor and welfare doesn’t.
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Do you know this from personal experience or from repeated rhetoric? I ask because I have personal experience with government welfare…and quite frankly, it’s not the tax cuts that helped get me out of that situation…it was the help from government benefits (unemployment pay and WIC) that allowed us to better feed our family until we got back on our feet. My friend and her family of 6 were on actual welfare. They are no longer, thanks to the government helping them stay alive while they got back on their feet. Finally, what about all the uninsured? Do you honstly think that government handouts in the form of state insurance is bad for families?
 
CathCentrist said:
To be anything other than Independent is unfathomable to me. Party line voting imo is a form of brainwashing. No one group has all the answers.
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If you are not affiliated with a party, you cannot vote in the primaries in some states. If you don’t vote in primaries, you have no say in who runs for an office. That is not to say that voting a straight party ticket is a good thing.
 
I think that it really depends on where they are in their religious lives, from my experience Catholics that are Democrats do no agree with everything that the DNC does but they feel the same about the Church and just as they pick and choose what they wish to follow. But that is just in my experience.
 
smartblkchick said:
I am Catholic and a Democrat because I am not now, nor have I ever been, a one-issue voter. I look at the totality of the perspectives of both parties before I vote. I have yet to agree with the pro-business, pro-wealthy, anti-poor positions of the Republican party. And, as a black person, I find their pandering to the racist white voting block offensive. Unless and until that changes, I will never vote Republican!
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I know this post is very old but I agree with this. Yes, I struggle with the abortion issue very much. 😊 But, I cannot ignore what the Republican party stands for. Many of them are hate mongers and the level of hate is even worse now. I cannot in good conscience support the Republicans. I can only support the pro-life causes and work that work on changing the public perception on the matter. Also, just to note, the Republicans have not so far done anything to change the abortion laws in this country and they use the abortion platform as a bargaining chip to gain conservative voters.
 
janesansible said:
I know this post is very old but I agree with this. Yes, I struggle with the abortion issue very much. 😊 But, I cannot ignore what the Republican party stands for. Many of them are hate mongers and the level of hate is even worse now. I cannot in good conscience support the Republicans. I can only support the pro-life causes and work that work on changing the public perception on the matter. Also, just to note, the Republicans have not so far done anything to change the abortion laws in this country and they use the abortion platform as a bargaining chip to gain conservative voters.
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Are they really hate mongers? Who are the hate mongers? The people voting? All of them? The candidates? Are, for example, Romney and Ryan, really hate mongers or is that what the Democratic party is advertising? Do you have concrete examples of Romney and Ryan being hate mongers? What level of hate, what are they hating? How are they hating? Who is they? I see the Democrats advertising this left and right, but aside from some wackos (which both parties have), are Republicans really that awful? The vast majority of the ones I have met are good people.

Planned Parenthood and many other pro-choice organizations disagree with you about Republicans not having done anything to change abortion laws. Look into it. I am on the Planned Parenthood email list just to see what they are talking about, and they are always trying to get people to call senators and block this or complain about that because Republican politicians are taking action.

I got this from Planned Parenthood, just a small example, but you can find plenty more:
Undermine women’s access to abortion
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Out-of-touch politicians continue their relentless efforts to undermine women’s access to abortion. They have filed bill after bill designed to prevent women from accessing comprehensive care. One such way is by working to ban insurance coverage of abortion in the new health insurance exchanges under the ACA. This means that women who buy an insurance plan through the exchange may not have abortion covered as a health care service, even though most insurance companies cover abortion as part of their health plan.
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Republican leadership’ priorities are clear: advance their own ideological agenda and let women’s health fall by the wayside.
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Also, here you can see links of how Barack Obama voted with regards to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, so you can see, politicians can have positive or negative influence on the protection of the most innocent, within the womb, and in this act, when the abortion fails and the child is born alive. Even the pro-abortion groups such as NARAL had expressed neutrality towards the act (which was meant to protect babies that were born of failed abortions), so pro abortion groups were ok with it, but Obama was not because he didn’t want it to affect the right to an abortion. He was willing to risk having live babies thrown in the trash to protect the precious right for a mother to kill her child in her womb.
 
lifeisbeautiful said:
Are they really hate mongers? Who are the hate mongers? The people voting? All of them? The candidates? Are, for example, Romney and Ryan, really hate mongers or is that what the Democratic party is advertising? Do you have concrete examples of Romney and Ryan being hate mongers? What level of hate, what are they hating? How are they hating? Who is they? I see the Democrats advertising this left and right, but aside from some wackos (which both parties have), are Republicans really that awful? The vast majority of the ones I have met are good people.

Planned Parenthood and many other pro-choice organizations disagree with you about Republicans not having done anything to change abortion laws. Look into it. I am on the Planned Parenthood email list just to see what they are talking about, and they are always trying to get people to call senators and block this or complain about that because Republican politicians are taking action.

I got this from Planned Parenthood, just a small example, but you can find plenty more:

Also, here you can see links of how Barack Obama voted with regards to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, so you can see, politicians can have positive or negative influence on the protection of the most innocent, within the womb, and in this act, when the abortion fails and the child is born alive. Even the pro-abortion groups such as NARAL had expressed neutrality towards the act (which was meant to protect babies that were born of failed abortions), so pro abortion groups were ok with it, but Obama was not because he didn’t want it to affect the right to an abortion. He was willing to risk having live babies thrown in the trash to protect the precious right for a mother to kill her child in her womb.
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:doh2: Here is the link I forgot to add… jillstanek.com/aborted-alive/links-to-barack.html:D
 
This is a really old thread but I have to comment about not being a one issue voter. The issue of voting against pro-abortion politicians is the most important issue that we as Catholics can participate in. If we believe in God at all we must protect the unborn first and foremost and at all costs. This is the most important vote to save our country and it is only then can we set things anew and be right with God again. Our culture of death is so ugly and is poised to only get worse if it is not stopped. The Democratic party just “jumped the shark” by not including God or Jerusalem as the capitol of Isreal in their platform. They attempted to change it but the dirty fact is that the Democratic party wants no part of God or Israel and had no shame in admitting this before an election.
 
I agree with you regarding Romney and Ryan. I agree with you on Planned Parenthood. But many others in the Republican Party alienate those who are different from them. Did you see the rainbow of people at the Democratic convention? You cannot say that about the Republicans. Whether it is true about YOU personally or not, Republicans are not WELCOMING people and aside from being welcoming their policies (Ryan’s budget for example) hurt more than help people especially those who need it the most.

I do not support Planned Parenthood and hope to see its demise. But, can you honestly tell me that you believe, for example, that President Bush did ANYTHING about getting rid of abortion during the 8 years he was President? His most important agenda was terrorism which is important but it seems Republicans pick and choose their battles as well.

I do not think WHOM we vote for is enough. We need to change the mindset of the populace who define themselves as pro choice.

Also, torture by the way has been denounced by the Holy See and goes against catholic moral theology YET, catholics voted for Bush as well. The Republicans have convinced you that they are fighting for our causes and they are just telling us what we want to hear and have done nothing about it!
lifeisbeautiful said:
Are they really hate mongers? Who are the hate mongers? The people voting? All of them? The candidates? Are, for example, Romney and Ryan, really hate mongers or is that what the Democratic party is advertising? Do you have concrete examples of Romney and Ryan being hate mongers? What level of hate, what are they hating? How are they hating? Who is they? I see the Democrats advertising this left and right, but aside from some wackos (which both parties have), are Republicans really that awful? The vast majority of the ones I have met are good people.

Planned Parenthood and many other pro-choice organizations disagree with you about Republicans not having done anything to change abortion laws. Look into it. I am on the Planned Parenthood email list just to see what they are talking about, and they are always trying to get people to call senators and block this or complain about that because Republican politicians are taking action.

I got this from Planned Parenthood, just a small example, but you can find plenty more:

Also, here you can see links of how Barack Obama voted with regards to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, so you can see, politicians can have positive or negative influence on the protection of the most innocent, within the womb, and in this act, when the abortion fails and the child is born alive. Even the pro-abortion groups such as NARAL had expressed neutrality towards the act (which was meant to protect babies that were born of failed abortions), so pro abortion groups were ok with it, but Obama was not because he didn’t want it to affect the right to an abortion. He was willing to risk having live babies thrown in the trash to protect the precious right for a mother to kill her child in her womb.
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What does anyone have say about Caroline Kennedy view on abortion that she presented at the Democratic Convention?
 
I’m going to risk looking very grim and ugly here…

Have you ever watched an abortion? In my youth, I was not involved in the Church at all and didn’t even care about the unborn. Somewhere along the way in college I viewed a tape that contained two or three abortions on it.

If you can watch an unborn fetus be pulled out of a womb and tossed in a pan like something you do with dog scraps, then you need to prioritize your morality. I don’t care if your parish priest likes Obama and has no problem voting for him, one day he will have to stand before Christ and ask why he supports such a horrible, violent murder of the unborn and its
tiny soul.
 
I have seen abortion videos and they are horrible and gruesome. But, the Republicans have not helped reduce those abortion rates. Where is the legislation to assist women who feel as if they have no options? What about healthcare that these women need before and after birth? I live in Florida and Rick Scott has cut education and also cut child care subsidy programs. My daycare may close because many of the people who have kids there will lose their child care subsidy. My child has developmental issues that NOW thankfully are not going uncovered because of being a preexisting exclusion.

If republicans did those things and more then yes, I would vote for them. But, they really are all talk on the abortion thing. They have absolutely no intention of overturning Roe v. Wade. I believe that Romney himself said recently that he is not touching women’s reproductive issues. Why? Because the fact of the matter is that the majority of americans (the tide is turning, though) still support abortion (they placate themselves by thinking its only done for cases of rape and incest …because apparently THEN its justified in their minds to keep being pro choice). We Catholics are fooling ourselves by voting for the republicans because of abortion.
 
janesansible said:
But, the Republicans have not helped reduce those abortion rates. Where is the legislation to assist women who feel as if they have no options? … (ssnip) We Catholics are fooling ourselves by voting for the republicans because of abortion.
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You know, I feel the same way. I really want to support getting rid of abortions, but I sometimes feel like some candidates just pay lip service to ending it (and have no intentions of doing anything). Both Republicans and Democrats “use” the abortion platform as a way to guarantee certain votes form certain groups of people.

I am pro-life and I would vote for someone if they were truly pro-life and really had a plan to reduce and stop abortions… but I think most political candidates who say they are pro-life (or not) are just using that platform to get votes. They don’t really put their money where their mouth is and in 40 years not much has really changed (even when Republicans have been in power). Looking at the national spotlight, I don’t think either Obama or Romney is pro-life. So I put abortion issues aside and vote on the other issues in good conscious, which is allowed according to our Pope.

And no, I don’t vote Democrat… or Republican. I do my homework and look at each candidate, look at their record, listen to debates and the issues and vote based on what I think they will actually do. All this red state, blue state, us vs. them garbage is just whipped up sensationalism made up by the media and “political entertainers.” America has been duped into thinking politics is a football game of us vs. them instead of something more akin to a complex game of chess… and it’s done our country no favors. We take extremes on both sides like pouting children and then wonder why nothing gets done.
 
janesansible said:
I have seen abortion videos and they are horrible and gruesome. But, the Republicans have not helped reduce those abortion rates. Where is the legislation to assist women who feel as if they have no options? What about healthcare that these women need before and after birth? I live in Florida and Rick Scott has cut education and also cut child care subsidy programs. My daycare may close because many of the people who have kids there will lose their child care subsidy. My child has developmental issues that NOW thankfully are not going uncovered because of being a preexisting exclusion.

If republicans did those things and more then yes, I would vote for them. But, they really are all talk on the abortion thing. They have absolutely no intention of overturning Roe v. Wade. I believe that Romney himself said recently that he is not touching women’s reproductive issues. Why? Because the fact of the matter is that the majority of americans (the tide is turning, though) still support abortion (they placate themselves by thinking its only done for cases of rape and incest …because apparently THEN its justified in their minds to keep being pro choice). We Catholics are fooling ourselves by voting for the republicans because of abortion.
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Yet every law limiting abortion (parental notification, minor consent, partial birth abortion ban, born alive protection (Thanks, Obama!), sex and race selective abortion bans) have been violently opposed by the Democratic party.

I listened to Ray Flynn last night on EWTN radio. The Democrat Party has become the anti-life, anti-family party. They drive pro-life candidates out of the party. You pay lip service to “hate mongers” in the Republican party (proof? or is it your goal to smear people with a broad brush), but I for one can’t willfully ignore the very OPEN hatred the Democrat party has taken against the unborn, the family, and even the CHURCH in their platform.

I once voted Democrat, but the Democrat party left me, and there is no way I can vote for them in good conscience.
 
Janesansible, I will get back to you when I have more time to post sources, but I was wondering if you are aware of the program in FL where many low income families can send their children to any private school (including Catholic ones) that they feel best serves their child? It isn’t what I want to address from your comments, though.
mellowcalico said:
Looking at the national spotlight, I don’t think either Obama or Romney is pro-life. So I put abortion issues aside and vote on the other issues in good conscious, which is allowed according to our Pope.
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Do you have a reference for what you are saying here?

ETA, well here is one link I wanted to share:
blackgenocide.org/abortion.html

Just like slavery, laws pro-abortion are not going to be overturned overnight, but that does not mean we need to give up and assume it can never be done!
 
lifeisbeautiful said:
Janesansible, I will get back to you when I have more time to post sources, but I was wondering if you are aware of the program in FL where many low income families can send their children to any private school (including Catholic ones) that they feel best serves their child? It isn’t what I want to address from your comments, though.

Do you have a reference for what you are saying here?
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I was thinking of this (I had to look it up to get the exact quote). Pope Benedict said it when he was still a Cardinal (just for the sake of cull disclosure).

“A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to ***deliberately ***vote for a candidate ***precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. ***When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

It is evil to vote for a candidate who is for abortion because you you agree with that stand on abortion… but you can vote for someone who happens to be pro-abortion (even if you aren’t) if you have other proportional reasons (like they might be pro-abortion, but their policies might actually reduce abortions).

So for example, one thing I am considering is, would more social programs to support mothers help reduce abortions? What about easier access to healthcare? Also, just looking at abortion numbers in the US, it almost seems like it’s tied to the economy. So another good question for me to ask is “which candidate will improve the economy more and therefore also reduce abortions.” None of these answers clearly points to a particular candidate for me yet (in the national election anyway). Obama would have more social programs… but I think Romney would improve the economy. So I have a lot more homework to do.

I just don’t put much stock in what the candidates say as opposed to what the outcomes actually are.
 
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