Catholic and Greek Orthodox Marriage

[gwrinc]

My wife an I have been married for 38 years. I am a Catholic and my wife is Greek Orthodox. Although we were married in the Greek Orthodox Church our marriage was approved and blessed by the Catholic Church. We have three wonderful daughters who have been raised in both churches. They were baptized in the Catholic Church and have received all the sacraments. They have also received Chrismation in the Greek Church so as to be able to receive communion in the Greek Church. My whole family goes to mass each week. We split our attendance equally between both churches.

One of our daughters is now getting ready to get married. She is marrying a practicing Catholic, who is in church with us each Sunday. However, for non- religious reasons my daughter would like to get married in the Greek Orthodox Church. However, remaining in the good graces of the Catholic Church is very important to both of them.

What do they both need to do for the Catholic Church to recognize the marriage in the Greek Orthodox church?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Is your daughter Greek Orthodox or not, that is the question. She has come of age and should have chosen which Church she will belong to. If she’s Catholic, then she cannot marry outside of the Catholic Church unless the person she is marrying is non-Catholic, which in this case the guy is Catholic. So it cannot be done, the Church will not grant a dispensation for two Catholics to get married in anything other than a Catholic Church.

Now here’s something you may want to try. I know that the Orthodox Mystery of Crowning is a wonderful Rite. Why not look for a Byzantine Rite Catholic parish. Talk to the priest there and explain your situation, then arrange with your Roman Catholic pastor and the Eastern Catholic pastor for the wedding to be done in the Byzantine Rite.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

My wife an I have been married for 38 years. I am a Catholic and my wife is Greek Orthodox. Although we were married in the Greek Orthodox Church our marriage was approved and blessed by the Catholic Church. We have three wonderful daughters who have been raised in both churches. They were baptized in the Catholic Church and have received all the sacraments. They have also received Chrismation in the Greek Church so as to be able to receive communion in the Greek Church. My whole family goes to mass each week. We split our attendance equally between both churches.

One of our daughters is now getting ready to get married. She is marrying a practicing Catholic, who is in church with us each Sunday. However, for non- religious reasons my daughter would like to get married in the Greek Orthodox Church. However, remaining in the good graces of the Catholic Church is very important to both of them.

What do they both need to do for the Catholic Church to recognize the marriage in the Greek Orthodox church?

Based on the information you give: your daughter is Catholic. Being a Catholic she is bound by Catholic Church law. She has to marry in the Catholic Church. Because she is marrying a Catholic man I cannot see on what grounds the Church would dispense her from canonical form. They should also, if both Latin Catholics, be married in the Latin Church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Based on the information you give: your daughter is Catholic. Being a Catholic she is bound by Catholic Church law. She has to marry in the Catholic Church. Because she is marrying a Catholic man I cannot see on what grounds the Church would dispense her from canonical form. They should also, if both Latin Catholics, be married in the Latin Church.

I’m not familiar with the Canons but I believe that being the daughter of a Greek Orthodox, she has a right to be canonically Greek Catholic, especially if Chrismated in the Greek Orthodox Church.

The person best to talk to really is the pastor of their parish. As I’ve suggested, maybe a Greek Catholic priest may help if the daughter just wants to honor the mother’s Byzantine Rite faith.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I’m not familiar with the Canons but I believe that being the daughter of a Greek Orthodox, she has a right to be canonically Greek Catholic, especially if Chrismated in the Greek Orthodox Church.

The person best to talk to really is the pastor of their parish. As I’ve suggested, maybe a Greek Catholic priest may help if the daughter just wants to honor the mother’s Byzantine Rite faith.

We all try to answer posts in good faith. It is only possible to provide answers based on the information provided.

The OP states that he is Catholic. He doesn’t elaborate so I have presumed he’s a Latin Catholic. He says is wife is Orthodox. According to the Catholic Church in a mixed marriage children should be baptised and raised as Catholics. He does in fact state that his daughter was baptised as a Catholic. As I understand she was chrismated in addition to all the Catholic sacraments which infers she was confirmed as a Catholic.

Children follow the ritual church of one of their parents if both are Catholic but belong to different churches. As only one of her parents is Catholic, and presuming he’s a Latin Catholic, she too will be a Latin Catholic.

Of course, all the sacraments of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic churches are valid. However, unless prevented from doing so, we should receive the sacraments in our own ritual church. Therefore, as a Latin Catholic she should be married in a Latin Catholic Church. I think this would be even more appropriate as her husband-to-be is a Latin Catholic also.

To change ritual churches as adults, in this case, would require the permission of the Holy See.

That is my understanding of the Church’s laws.

 

[bmadamsberry]

Is your daughter Greek Orthodox or not, that is the question. She has come of age and should have chosen which Church she will belong to.

I think that you are making the ‘question’ a little too simple (it’s not actually the question, but one that you inserted into the OP’s question). It is important to understand that belonging to a Greek Orthodox family is more than about belonging to a religious group. The Greek Orthodox have traditions that are beautiful. It’s not about celebrating her marriage in one Church as opposed to another, it’s about the traditions and the culture!

 

[ConstantineTG]

ConstantineTG;8219431:

Is your daughter Greek Orthodox or not, that is the question. She has come of age and should have chosen which Church she will belong to.

I think that you are making the ‘question’ a little too simple (it’s not actually the question, but one that you inserted into the OP’s question). It is important to understand that belonging to a Greek Orthodox family is more than about belonging to a religious group. The Greek Orthodox have traditions that are beautiful. It’s not about celebrating her marriage in one Church as opposed to another, it’s about the traditions and the culture!

of things that you can add to the Marriage Rite. If the bride can lay her bouquet at the feet of a statue of Mary, then your daughter can add some things like the crowning.

I have a close friend who I talk to regularly about this, because she will go through the same thing (although there actually is the question about whether she is Catholic or not).

And the Greek Catholic Church aren’t part of the Greek culture? For Eastern Churches, both the Catholic and Orthodox side have the same cultural and religious traditions. Its just a matter of one being in communion with the Pope of Rome and the other is not. What you describe are parts of the Divine Liturgy and Crowning Rite. Thing is, you can’t just insert stuff into the Latin Rite that doesn’t fit there.

The OP asked about using the Greek Rite in the Greek Orthodox Church. So why not look for a Greek Catholic one? It is really that simple.

 

[bmadamsberry]

bmadamsberry;8223519:

ConstantineTG;8219431:

Is your daughter Greek Orthodox or not, that is the question. She has come of age and should have chosen which Church she will belong to.

And the Greek Catholic Church aren’t part of the Greek culture? For Eastern Churches, both the Catholic and Orthodox side have the same cultural and religious traditions. Its just a matter of one being in communion with the Pope of Rome and the other is not. What you describe are parts of the Divine Liturgy and Crowning Rite. Thing is, you can’t just insert stuff into the Latin Rite that doesn’t fit there.

The OP asked about using the Greek Rite in the Greek Orthodox Church. So why not look for a Greek Catholic one? It is really that simple.

Actually, it is that simple to add ‘stuff’ into the Rite of Marriage. Again I point to laying a bouquet at the feet of a statue of Mary (a practice that used to be more popular, but oh well).

The Greek Catholic Church might not be readily available. There might not be one in their area. There are other issues to consider. My main concern was the flipant way it was dealt with. It’s easy to be flipant when you aren’t involved, but it’s important to approach these things with a little more compassion.

 

[Angelicus]

This is a very complex situation and I hope that you give your pastor at your Catholic church enough time to sort things out. This situation will not be easily resolved.

By being chrismated in the Greek Orthodox Church, your daughter is objectively schismatic according to the Church. The Church would consider her as GO and it would grant a dispensation for the Catholic party to be married in the Orthodox church. However, your daughter should not consider herself to be fully Catholic going forward.

If she wants to marry as a Catholic, she would have to make a profession of faith before the pastor before all of the marriage paperwork is approved. Since there are two Catholics now being married, it would make no sense to grant a dispensation to be married in a GO church. In fact, the GO priest would not agree to a ceremony under those circumstances, nor would he allow a Catholic priest the faculties to perform the ceremony in his church. There would be a very slight chance that the local ordinary and the Orthodox priest may grant a dispensation based on the fact that the mother is GO and was married in that church, but that is a very slim chance.

 

[malphono]

What do they both need to do for the Catholic Church to recognize the marriage in the Greek Orthodox church?

What I’d suggest is to have a chat with the RC pastor first and then the GO pastor. As it seems to have been in your own case, it should be able to worked out with a minimum of complication

 

[Patchunky]

bmadamsberry;8223519:

ConstantineTG;8219431:

Is your daughter Greek Orthodox or not, that is the question. She has come of age and should have chosen which Church she will belong to.

And the Greek Catholic Church aren’t part of the Greek culture? For Eastern Churches, both the Catholic and Orthodox side have the same cultural and religious traditions. Its just a matter of one being in communion with the Pope of Rome and the other is not. What you describe are parts of the Divine Liturgy and Crowning Rite. Thing is, you can’t just insert stuff into the Latin Rite that doesn’t fit there.

The OP asked about using the Greek Rite in the Greek Orthodox Church. So why not look for a Greek Catholic one? It is really that simple.

No, the Greek Catholic Church IS NOT PART OF GREEK CULTURE! It has nothing to do with Greece or being Greek.

Greek Catholic comes from Eastern Europe where the people who followed the Eastern Catholic branch of the Catholic church were called GREKO KATOLIK GREEK CATHOLIC because they followed the Rite of the Greeks; just like Roman Catholics follow the Rite of the Romans.

The term GREKO KATOLIK was dropped in the USA because of this same confusion. People thought it was a GREEK as in GREECE church not a “Byzantine” church.

 

[Bluegoat]

The whole situation of being baptised in the Catholic Church and chrismated in the Orthodox Church sounds crazy.

But in any case, the Catholic Church usually recommends that in the case of a Catholic-Orthodox marriage, the couple be married in the Orthodox Church. This is because the OC does not recognize the Catholic marriage as valid. In fact as I understand it marrying outside the Orthodox Church is grounds for excommunication.

But is it a Catholic-Orthodox marriage? Your daughter really needs to decide what she believes. Trying to stay in the Orthodox Church for “cultural” reasons doesn’t make sense, even if there is pressure from relatives.

 

[ConstantineTG]

No, the Greek Catholic Church IS NOT PART OF GREEK CULTURE! It has nothing to do with Greece or being Greek.

Greek Catholic comes from Eastern Europe where the people who followed the Eastern Catholic branch of the Catholic church were called GREKO KATOLIK GREEK CATHOLIC because they followed the Rite of the Greeks; just like Roman Catholics follow the Rite of the Romans.

The term GREKO KATOLIK was dropped in the USA because of this same confusion. People thought it was a GREEK as in GREECE church not a “Byzantine” church.

Er, no. There is a particular Greek Catholic Church which is its own sui juris. I know many Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches would refer to themselves as Greek Catholics, but I’m talking about the sui juris Greek Catholic Church.

I think to avoid confusion, they are referred to as the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Byzantine_Catholic_Church

 

[ConstantineTG]

Actually, it is that simple to add ‘stuff’ into the Rite of Marriage. Again I point to laying a bouquet at the feet of a statue of Mary (a practice that used to be more popular, but oh well).

The Greek Catholic Church might not be readily available. There might not be one in their area. There are other issues to consider. My main concern was the flipant way it was dealt with. It’s easy to be flipant when you aren’t involved, but it’s important to approach these things with a little more compassion.

Who’s being flipant? Gawrsh, thanks for speaking for myself. Is that what people who try to help who have a different opinion from other people also trying to help get around here? False, baseless accusations?

 

[Seatuck]

My wife an I have been married for 38 years. I am a Catholic and my wife is Greek Orthodox. Although we were married in the Greek Orthodox Church our marriage was approved and blessed by the Catholic Church. We have three wonderful daughters who have been raised in both churches. They were baptized in the Catholic Church and have received all the sacraments. They have also received Chrismation in the Greek Church so as to be able to receive communion in the Greek Church. My whole family goes to mass each week. We split our attendance equally between both churches.

One of our daughters is now getting ready to get married. She is marrying a practicing Catholic, who is in church with us each Sunday. However, for non- religious reasons my daughter would like to get married in the Greek Orthodox Church. However, remaining in the good graces of the Catholic Church is very important to both of them.

What do they both need to do for the Catholic Church to recognize the marriage in the Greek Orthodox church?

Make an appointment with your priest or possibly someone at the diocesan level. This does seem complicated. Catholics cannot receive Sacraments from the Orthodox without serious reason. It seems some teachings have been circumvented here to try to make this situation easier. Let us know the outcome.

 

[gwrinc]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Sometimes an outside perspective is helpful.

For those of you who would not regularily keep up on such items, Rome has been having serious discussions with the Greek Orthodox Church about reunification. These discussions started only after both churches verified that they are in spiritual unity. Currently the only stumbling blocks which remain appear all to be bureaucratic in nature, although non-the-less challenging.

It is also interesting to note that the Roman Catholic church has long allowed members of the Greek Orthodox church to receive holy communion. Because, according to Canon law # 844" the Eastern Orthodox Christians, share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments".

Again, Thank you for you thoughts
God Bless

 

[Bluegoat]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Sometimes an outside perspective is helpful.

For those of you who would not regularily keep up on such items, Rome has been having serious discussions with the Greek Orthodox Church about reunification. These discussions started only after both churches verified that they are in spiritual unity. Currently the only stumbling blocks which remain appear all to be bureaucratic in nature, although non-the-less challenging.

It is also interesting to note that the Roman Catholic church has long allowed members of the Greek Orthodox church to receive holy communion. Because, according to Canon law # 844" the Eastern Orthodox Christians, share the same faith concerning the nature of the sacraments".

Again, Thank you for you thoughts
God Bless

I think you may be putting the cart before the horse here my friend.

 

[The_Idiot]

Like Bluegoat - I think you are reading too much into the conversations between the RC Church and the Orthodox Churches .

One question for me

Is your daughter Catholic or Orthodox ?

She was Baptised Catholic I believe, and Chrismated in the Orthodox Church - so which is she ? It is** impossible** for her to be both .

If she is Receiving the Holy Gifts in both Churches you really do have a BIG problem - and her canonical status MUST as a matter of urgency be straightened out .

*This also applies to your other daughters *

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Like Bluegoat - I think you are reading too much into the conversations between the RC Church and the Orthodox Churches .

One question for me

Is your daughter Catholic or Orthodox ?

She was Baptised Catholic I believe, and Chrismated in the Orthodox Church - so which is she ? It is** impossible** for her to be both .

If she is Receiving the Holy Gifts in both Churches you really do have a BIG problem - and her canonical status MUST as a matter of urgency be straightened out .

*This also applies to your other daughters *

I think that the daughter is Catholic. Her father is Catholic. She was baptised a Catholic. The father (the OP) does not say she was baptised in the Greek Orthodox Church. Through her baptism she is therefore a Catholic. I do not think her chrismation in the Greek Orthodox Church changes her situation. Her father (the OP) says that she has received “all” the sacraments in the Catholic Church. From this we may infer she was confirmed in the Catholic Church. Why has she been confirmed and chrismated? I think this demonstrates the family’s lack of understanding regarding the sacraments. I have formed the impression that they may be opting between a Catholic and Orthodox wedding in the same manner one may be undecided between this hotel and that one.

 

[The_Idiot]

I suggest we read the original post again

My wife an I have been married for 38 years. I am a Catholic and my wife is Greek Orthodox. Although we were married in the Greek Orthodox Church our marriage was approved and blessed by the Catholic Church. We have three wonderful daughters who have been raised in both churches. They were baptized in the Catholic Church and have received all the sacraments.** They have also received Chrismation in the Greek Church so as to be able to receive communion in the Greek Church**. My whole family goes to mass each week. **We split our attendance equally between both churches. **

One of our daughters is now getting ready to get married. She is marrying a practicing Catholic, who is in church with us each Sunday. However, for non- religious reasons my daughter would like to get married in the Greek Orthodox Church. However, remaining in the good graces of the Catholic Church is very important to both of them.

What do they both need to do for the Catholic Church to recognize the marriage in the Greek Orthodox church?

Underining and ‘bolding’ is mine

Although we were married in the Greek Orthodox Church our marriage was approved and blessed by the Catholic Church

perfectly OK BUT the Greek Orthodox parent is expected to bring up the children as Orthodox - sound familiar ?

They have also received Chrismation in the Greek Church so as to be able to receive communion in the Greek Church

now this is a problem - IF you are RC you are asked to abide by the ‘rules and regulations’ of the other Church . I personally can’t see any Orthodox Priest permitting this - if your daughters regarded themselves as Orthodox and Received Holy Communion in BOTH churches they will be regarded as having excommunicated themselves since the Orthodox Church does not accept the Sacraments of the RC Church.

My whole family goes to mass each week. We split our attendance equally between both churches

And are the priests of each church aware you are doing this ?

I really think you should be discussing this with both priests not a crowd of folk on the Internet .

Frankly I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you do talk to the Priests.

OH and a further thing to think about - Marriage preparation - it is required by both the RC Church AND the Greek Orthodox Church , would they accept each other’s Course .

@ Matthew Holford

Her baptism was RC - no doubt of that , BUT if her Chrismation was in the Orthodox Church and after her RC Confirmation , then canonically she is Orthodox , since she has effectively converted in the same way as any RC who converts to the Orthodox Church.

My advice - see the priests in each church and get this mess sorted out.