Catholic and libertarian? Pope’s top adviser says they’re incompatible

[kmkarbo]

Yes, sadly, the Tea Party is villified by those trying to influence voters and those that are ignorant to what actually occurs at meetings. I have been to several meetings. They consist of people that seem to really care about all people and the condition of our country. At each meeting we are reminded to continue to do our job respectfully because there will always be people trying to make us look bad and attempting to provoke us. The Tea Party in mid-Michigan has an excellent documented program of values and goals.

 

[minkymurph]

Headlines and reports from the Vatican are not edifying God
The poor will always be with us. Democrats and Republicans have a dismal record changing that condition with any significance. Subsidiarity works most effectively and appears to most resemble Liberterianism.

Could you expand on the concept subsidiarity appears to most resemble libertarianism?

It’s not a trick question. It’s a genuine inquiry and I would support decentralization of government - if that is what you mean.

 

[johnmann]

Catholics can be pragmatic libertarians. I.e., back libertarian solutions because they believe them to be the best way to achieve Catholic ends. Catholics may not be ideological libertarians. I.e., believe the state has no moral authority to impose itself on citizens for the common good.

Actually, where I think most libertarian-leaning Catholics go wrong is in their opposition to welfare. Welfare can be economically inefficient, costly, corrupt, and encourage dependency. But all those must be secondary concerns to the primary concern of aiding the poor. Libertarians also like to argue that the free market helps the poor because a rising tide lifts all boats. That is true but a violently rising tide sinks boats. Catholics don’t believe in sacrificing the few for the benefit of the many. Find a way to prevent boats from sinking, even if it means the tide has to rise a little slower.

 

[kmkarbo]

Thanks, John, for helping me to reply to minky. I do support decentralization of govt, especially in regards to welfare. I’ve witnessed first hand, from both ends of giving and receiving, the woeful inadequateness of that program. Govt welfare neglects the dignity of people. For example, to receive your welfare assistance you must be involved in other govt programs such as job seeking through the govt unemployment office or receiving vaccinations for your children. The govt is self-serving itself under the guise of helping others.
Subsidiarism would remove the inefficiency, astronomical cost, and corruptness, and be totally voluntary, instead of forcing people via taxes. It would raise that boat in a non violent manner, respect the dignity of all, and be authentic charity.

 

[minkymurph]

Catholics can be pragmatic libertarians. I.e., back libertarian solutions because they believe them to be the best way to achieve Catholic ends. Catholics may not be ideological libertarians. I.e., believe the state has no moral authority to impose itself on citizens for the common good.

Actually, where I think most libertarian-leaning Catholics go wrong is in their opposition to welfare. Welfare can be economically inefficient, costly, corrupt, and encourage dependency. But all those must be secondary concerns to the primary concern of aiding the poor. Libertarians also like to argue that the free market helps the poor because a rising tide lifts all boats. That is true but a violently rising tide sinks boats. Catholics don’t believe in sacrificing the few for the benefit of the many. Find a way to prevent boats from sinking, even if it means the tide has to rise a little slower.

Ah! Now this is a good analogy. I’m glad you’ve said this because some very strange arguments regarding libertarianism and welfare.

 

[minkymurph]

Thanks, John, for helping me to reply to minky. I do support decentralization of govt, especially in regards to welfare. I’ve witnessed first hand, from both ends of giving and receiving, the woeful inadequateness of that program. Govt welfare neglects the dignity of people. For example, to receive your welfare assistance you must be involved in other govt programs such as job seeking through the govt unemployment office or receiving vaccinations for your children. The govt is self-serving itself under the guise of helping others.
Subsidiarism would remove the inefficiency, astronomical cost, and corruptness, and be totally voluntary, instead of forcing people via taxes. It would raise that boat in a non violent manner, respect the dignity of all, and be authentic charity.

Maybe we are on a different wavelength. Does subsidiarism not involve decentralization of government?