Catholic and non-catholic engaged, NFP and Birth Control

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Hi everyone

I have a situation I will explain, and am looking for advice, specifically from a priest about this. I am waiting to get in to see the priest to be marrying us, to talk about this more, I just wanted to see what others thought.

So, to begin, I was baptized Catholic as an infant and have been raised Protestant my whole life (mostly Baptist). I fell in love with a Catholic guy, who has tremendous faith. We are supposed to be married in April. We started Pre-Cana last week with and it is going well so far. My fiance and I have read several books and really tried to cement a good foundation to be married. As the wedding is getting closer, there has been one issue that we have been fighting about that seem to be getting worse and not better. Everything else between us is great, but I will explain a little more of the problem and see what you have to say.

I have a very different view on birth control than he does and this has become a constant fight between us. Because it is so important to him, we started going to an NFP class about a month ago, I started charting that, but am nowhere near confident in it yet, or will be by the wedding in April. I was on the pill when I was younger from about age 14 to about 25. I started on it to regulate missed periods and then used it in addition to condoms as birth control. I got off it about 2 – 2 1/2 years ago because I don’t like all the hormones. I will tell you that I am against abortion and do not like the abortive properties that the pill could also have if used by itself, though I never really used it by itself so that was never a major concern. My current problem is FH is demanding that we either do NFP or not have any sex when we are married. Although we have both screwed up and had pre-marital sex, we have been being good latley and saving ourselves for the wedding.

I have expressed a concern to him, for many reasons to wait a while, after getting married to have children and he agrees with it, if we only do NFP. As I said, I have had messed up periods in the past, have also suffered from insomnia which can mess up charting, so bad I have gone to a sleep clinic for. I am nowhere near ready, as I stated, to only use NFP without having a lot more charting experience and seeing how my body actually reacts. As it is, most things I read about it say you should have at minimum 8-12 months of charting to even see how your body reacts. I see the concern for hormone pills and the physical and abortive problems that it can cause. As it is I am scheduling a Drs apt, because since I have gotten off the pill, I have had a number of symptoms that suggest a hormone imbalance. I have told FH that I was willing to keep charting the NFP until I felt comfortable with it BUT that I would use something (barrier method) that would not interfere with charting NFP becuase it is been such a short charting. Basically, using the FAM method, which is NFP with barriers. We would still be using a period of abstinence with the NFP, or knowing that the barriers can also have a decent fail rate, accept the facts that if we do engage in sex that there could be potential for a baby.

I have tried to express to him that I am going to be so concerned about getting pregnant when we are first married that I am not going to want to have sex at all, which isn’t going to help our marriage either and he said he won’t have sex with me if I use anything. I wholeheartedly believe that making love help builds a relationship and allows a couple to grow closer, and neither one of us doing it will ruin our marriage before it even starts. So far, all NFP has managed to do is cause endless fighting.

I am willing to go so far as to compromise and say we will chart the NFP and still manage to try to only have sex on days that correspond to days that would be “infertile” anyways, I am just not ready to just do soley NFP, especially being newlyweds. I have a view that making love with your partner allows for a special bond to lay a foundation for a strong family. Without having time to learn to be a couple and cement a good foundatio, jumping into having childern right off the bat form being married is not the best plan. Even St Paul tells us its better to marry to end up burnt, becuase of sexual desires. Newlyweds are exploring each other and are laying down a lasting foundation for their relationship. I am stealing this next part from another poster in another thread and totally agree, “Couples should be encouraged to seek caring and solace in one another, and yes, joyful and passionate expression of their physical attraction for one another is an important way of doing that. The bonding of sex, which is unique, helps foster and nourish unity so that it is strong when the couple really needs to call upon that resource.”

What is making me even more upset/hurt is that he won’t budge at all, even if I say he doesn’t have to do anything to take part in it, or know exactly when I am using something or not. I have tried to read in catholic forums from priests responding to similar questions, and I have seen that if he isn’t the one doing the “contraception” (ie using a condom or getting a vasectomy) or doesn’t know about it, he is not morally culpable for me choosing to do something. There was a Vademecum that they sighted that related to this, but I don’t understand it all. I am not asking him to do anything, and being I am not Catholic it should not matter.

(con’t in next post)
 
(con’t from above)

I am willing to go this far for him, but right now I can’t compromise anymore. As it is I have compormised on multiple issues for him, I go to Mass with him every Sunday, I said that he could raise any childern Catholic, someday maybe I will be Catholic, who knows, right now there are still things I disageree with. My main point though, is I am not Catholic, my choosing to use a barrier BC and still be willing to chart the NFP along side it is going way out on a limb for me, he just doesn’t see that as good enough, it is his way or nothing. I am really hoping a preist(S) could also resopnd, becuase it will be about 2 weeks before I can talk to the one who is supposed to marry us in a few months.

Can you please help clear this up, I am really tired about fighting about it and don’t want to see my marriage ruined before it starts because of this. I This is the one major sore spot that we fight about, because I can’t commit to doing what he wants right now. Sorry this became a novel, I am just so upset by all of this and am so sick of fighting about this. If you need me to clarify anything I rambled, please let me know! Thank you.
 
Good that you are asking this BEFORE you marry.

As you most likely know, your H2B considers barrier methods a grave sin. He could not in good conscience use a condom, and, I am sure you would not want him to commit sin.

Have you looked at all the different methods of NFP? There are more methods than just the STM, methods that work great for insomniacs like me 😃

I posted in another thread all the links, I will search and post them for you… hang on a bit…
 
Hi Kage_ar

Thank you for replying, I understand he thinks it is a grave matter for him, when I referred to barrier methods, I meant diaphragm/cervical cap etc, that is solely on my part that he has nothing to do with.
 
Yes, talking to a priest is in order. I commend you for getting an appointment ASAP.

This is not an issue your future Catholic spouse can compromise on. It’s not about compromise, it’s about the Divine Law given by Christ to his Church. Contraception is intrinsically disordered-- it’s a sin against the Sixth Commandment.

If you cannot agree to utlize NFP for either moral or purely practical reasons, then you need to rethink this marriage.

Regarding some of the specific issues you bring up regarding NFP charting-- I suggest you look at the three mucus only methods of Billings, Creighton, and Marquette if you have sleep issues that could compromise temperature.

I do not know of anyone who recommends 8-12 months of charting before using NFP. It only takes a couple of months. Talk to a compentent instructor in one of the mucus methods.

Also, regarding a barrier method-- anything you would use (sponge, diaphram, spermicide) would definitely impact your mucus signs. I would not recommend trying to do this. Talk to a qualified instructor.

Fundamentally, this is about much more than birth control. You have a fundamental difference in how the two of you view marriage and sexuality within marriage. This is not an issue to gloss over or think it will just go away. This is at the core of a marriage, the core of who he is, and if you cannot resolve it-- you need to seriously rethink marrying each other.

Regarding the Vademecum for Confessors-- yes, that is instructions for a priest to counsel an already married couple when one of them insists on contraception. However, you are not yet married. Your fiance is wisely stating that he will not have contraception in his marriage. This is not a situation where the Vademecum applies as the two of you are not yet married. I think you need to listen to what he is saying-- he does not want contraception to be a part of your marriage. If you can’t agree to this-- well, that is what discernment regarding a marriage partner is for… finding the dealbreakers before you walk down the aisle.
 
Q1234,

I really feel for you, I to felt that waiting and forming a healthy bond with my FH was very important to our marriage bond lasting. However, that said, I am concerned regarding your stance of hiding a birth control method from your soon to be DH. My question that I pose is: How can you build a strong marriage bond on lying to him regarding a barrier method? And how would you go about hiding this from him in the long run?

Please, Please give NFP a chance, used properly, (even by us insomniacs) NFP can have a 99% or greater success rate. This and no chemicals in our bodies! I know and agree that it is a pain, but our reward is that we have a greater understanding of our bodies and how they work. Then when we have discerned that the time is right to bring a baby into the world, we better understand the perfect timing to get pregnant; without the worry of having been off the pill for long enough.

I know that it is a difficult process at first, and can be scary for one not prepared for motherhood, but think of the fact that it is one more level on which you will know yourself.

Susan
 
Questions1234 said:
(con’t from above)

I am willing to go this far for him, but right now I can’t compromise anymore. As it is I have compormised on multiple issues for him, I go to Mass with him every Sunday, I said that he could raise any childern Catholic, someday maybe I will be Catholic, who knows, right now there are still things I disageree with. My main point though, is I am not Catholic, my choosing to use a barrier BC and still be willing to chart the NFP along side it is going way out on a limb for me, he just doesn’t see that as good enough, it is his way or nothing. I am really hoping a preist(S) could also resopnd, becuase it will be about 2 weeks before I can talk to the one who is supposed to marry us in a few months.

Can you please help clear this up, I am really tired about fighting about it and don’t want to see my marriage ruined before it starts because of this. I This is the one major sore spot that we fight about, because I can’t commit to doing what he wants right now. Sorry this became a novel, I am just so upset by all of this and am so sick of fighting about this. If you need me to clarify anything I rambled, please let me know! Thank you.
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But you are Catholic. 🙂 You were baptized Catholic…even if you weren’t raised as such. Just wanted to point that out!

I don’t know what method you are learning or how you are learning NFP. If you get instruction in person it can make a BIG difference in your comfort level! And you definitely don’t need 8-12 months of charting…I charted for about 4 months before my wedding and I had my signs down just fine. I do Billings which doesn’t require temperatures at all, just cervical mucus observations.

I do highly recommend the book “Taking Charge of Your Fertility” which is a good secular guide to NFP/FAM. It’s very scientific based and not aimed at any particular religion. I do want to point out that the author recommends complete abstinence during the fertile time - the reason being that during that time, the mucus is HIGHLY favorable to the sperm. A condom failure or slippage would make for extremely high odds of pregnancy. So if you absolutely cannot get pregnant, it would not be a good idea to “chance it” with a barrier method.
I wholeheartedly believe that making love help builds a relationship and allows a couple to grow closer, and neither one of us doing it will ruin our marriage before it even starts.
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You are 100% correct! Sex is a good and beautiful thing in marriage! But think about this - children are the natural end of lovemaking. Remember that NFP is not just about avoiding pregnancy “naturally.” It is about being conformed to God’s will and being open to God’s blessings in the form of children. I strongly encourage you to look at the spiritual basis of why the Catholic Church is so strongly against artificial birth control. Don’t miss the forest for the trees.

It can be really easy to get all caught up in the technical details and forget WHY we do what we do. If I truly want to be open to God’s will, I have to be open to his will in all areas of my life. Society tells us that we as women need to have absolute control over our reproductive systems. The Catholic Church doesn’t see it that way. If we have discerned that we have good reason to postpone a pregnancy, we have to pursue that need in harmony with God’s design of our bodies. I hope that didn’t sound too preachy. I don’t want to come off like that at all but I do want to stress that this is spiritual. Your fiance sounds like a great devout guy and I’m sure he would love to help you understand this aspect better.

PM me if you’d like to talk more - as a newlywed with experience using NFP, I’d love to help you out if I can.
 
Sexuality, birth control, the question of when (or if) to have children…

These are all very basic issues that should be resolved long before you get married. To walk down the aisle with these issues still unresolved is just begging for a lifetime of conflict and heartache.
1ke said:
Fundamentally, this is about much more than birth control. You have a fundamental difference in how the two of you view marriage and sexuality within marriage. This is not an issue to gloss over or think it will just go away. This is at the core of a marriage, the core of who he is, and if you cannot resolve it-- you need to seriously rethink marrying each other.
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I have to agree.
 
I am in firm agreement that a future spouse who considers hiding somethging as integral as artificial birth control use from her future husband should reconsider the wedding plans.

furthermore, re this:
My current problem is FH is demanding that we either do NFP or not have any sex when we are married.
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your future husband should know that failure to consumate the marriage vows invalidates the marriage.

i agree this is a profound philosophical disparity between you two.

if the priest with whom you speak doesn’t articulate the enormous impact this disparity will have on your marriage, find a priest who will. you both need to re-consider your plans.
 
Our souls are not trapped in our bodies. Our bodies are making visible what is invisible.

Our bodies are speaking what we are actually saying. If you use a barrier in sex, then you are not being Free, total, faithful, and fruitful, which is what you vow to in the marriage. You will NOT be bonding if you use a barrier during sex. You will be harming your marriage, not helping it. You will be breaking your marriage vows.

2nd, stop thinking that having a kid is going to put some kind of rift in the beginning of your marriage. Having a kid helps people get over selfishness really quick. The kid is a wedding gift from God, not a punishment.There is a lot of grace from children.

There are possibly serious reasons to avoid pregnancy, and that must be discerned together.
 
monicatholic said:
furthermore, re this: your future husband should know that failure to consumate the marriage vows invalidates the marriage.
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Not exactly. It is dissolvable, but it is valid. It becomes indissoluable when consummated.

Can. 1141 A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.

Can. 1142 For a just cause, the Roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.
 
I must agree with all of those who have posted. Yes, sex in marriage is a beautiful thing, a way of bonding and of cementing your love–but not if you are using birth control. Birth control renders the “statement” made by the act of love (“I love you and give myself to you”) into a lie. You are holding back part of yourself from the gift.

Also, as a former Protestant, I STILL ended up pregnant by my first anniversary. I was delighted, and I can tell you that having children does NOT mean that you and your husband cannot bond or develop a deep and private love. My husband and I have the best marriage of anyone I know! 😛

On a serious note, your future husband is correct in saying that this is an issue on which he cannot compromise. It is a deal-breaking issue, really. If you cannot accept that, I concur with the above posters. You should rethink this marriage.
 
agapewolf said:
Our bodies are speaking what we are actually saying. If you use a barrier in sex, then you are not being Free, total, faithful, and fruitful, which is what you vow to in the marriage. You will NOT be bonding if you use a barrier during sex. You will be harming your marriage, not helping it. You will be breaking your marriage vows.

2nd, stop thinking that having a kid is going to put some kind of rift in the beginning of your marriage. Having a kid helps people get over selfishness really quick. The kid is a wedding gift from God, not a punishment.There is a lot of grace from children.

There are possibly serious reasons to avoid pregnancy, and that must be discerned together.
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Very nicely put.

You sound like a great person! And your fiance is trying his hardest to convince you of this great teaching. But, it seems as though you want to be in control. And, that’s not a bad thing necessarily. But, the control issue can go too far. It’s true that we need to control our tempers and our finances and our weight, etc. But, sometimes, we hold on to that control so tightly that we push God right out of our lives. We want to control our fertility and keep God out! We’ll let Him know when we need Him.

But, in reality, we need to be responsible with God’s gift of fertility and keep God ( and your FH ) right there!

I think often times, we think we are being responsible by using an artificial method of birth control. When, all we need is cooperation between husband and wife, learning the method of your choosing (All of the ones mentioned so far are very effective when used correctly), and a whole lot of faith that God will take care of you, your marriage, and your children. Praying about it and talking about it are what keeps marriages on track. And, babies aren’t a terrible result of the disease that is called fertility! Babies are awesome gifts of love! 😉
 
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. Children are a supreme gift of marriage–don’t fear that gift–God loves you and knows what’s best for both of you. Your understanding that you need time to yourselves first is a faulty one. Your love will be cemented when you look into the eyes of the little person in your arms that wouldn’t have been there if it weren’t for the love you two share. Children are the ropes that bind husband and wife together–(Bishop Fulton Sheen). If you are not ready to be a mother, it is my opinion that you are not ready to get married. Marriage and children go together–that is how God intended it.
 
Not exactly. It is dissolvable, but it is valid. It becomes indissoluable when consummated.
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i appreciate the distinction, 1ke. i felt certain the OP would be most interested in the the thrust of my assertion: her fiance should not enter marriage with the intent of not consumating. that’s opposed to the meaning of marriage.

thanks for posting the cannon law on it.
 
Questions1234 said:
HiI have expressed a concern to him, for many reasons to wait a while, after getting married to have children and he agrees with it, if we only do NFP. As I said, I have had messed up periods in the past, have also suffered from insomnia which can mess up charting, so bad I have gone to a sleep clinic for. I am nowhere near ready, as I stated, to only use NFP without having a lot more charting experience and seeing how my body actually reacts.
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get diagnosis of the underlying disorder that is causing these symptoms, and proper treatment, the pill addresses symptoms, not the cause, and exposes you to deadly consequences and side effects as it does so. It will also “mess up charting” bigtime. Investigate all methods of identfying the fertile period, those here who practice them will I am sure help you.

Most of all pray about the underlying issue: why are you not both willing to accept children? You cannot even use NFP, let alone any artificial BC unless the reason is grave and discerned with the guidance of good spiritual direction. You must work this through before you get married.
 
Questions1234 said:
(con’t from above)

I am willing to go this far for him, but right now I can’t compromise anymore. As it is I have compormised on multiple issues for him, I go to Mass with him every Sunday, I said that he could raise any childern Catholic, someday maybe I will be Catholic, who knows, right now there are still things I disageree with. My main point though, is I am not Catholic, my choosing to use a barrier BC and still be willing to chart the NFP along side it is going way out on a limb for me, he just doesn’t see that as good enough, it is his way or nothing. I am really hoping a preist(S) could also resopnd, becuase it will be about 2 weeks before I can talk to the one who is supposed to marry us in a few months.

Can you please help clear this up, I am really tired about fighting about it and don’t want to see my marriage ruined before it starts because of this. I This is the one major sore spot that we fight about, because I can’t commit to doing what he wants right now. Sorry this became a novel, I am just so upset by all of this and am so sick of fighting about this. If you need me to clarify anything I rambled, please let me know! Thank you.
Click to expand...
Just do what your husband says. You need to submit to him and disregard any selfishness you have.
 
Questions123,
wow, you are working hard to solve this. That’s great. Marriage is worth working hard about.

What have you two read and studied on marital love and marriage? I’m wondering if I can come up with a resource or two that might click the in your brain to help you understand the damage that artificial birth control does to marriage and how it takes the meaning out of your marital act. I’m betting this is not going to be the only issue in your marriage bed as well.

Any Theology of the Body studies?
If not then try Christopher West- Good News about Sex and Marriage, Handbook of theology of the body, Theology of the body for Beginners , some others, or the big work or Theology of the Body by the Pope.

Theres some audio tapes and CD’s on Theology of the Body and also Marriage and the Eucharist.

Here’s a head start to some online articles by Chris West

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0109.html

Holy Sex, a gude… by Gregory Popcak.

Contraception , Why Not by Janet Smith.

catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html

Marriage and the Eucharist by John Martignoni-
you can get that free by download.

That shouldstart you off.
 
mpi said:
Just do what your husband says. You need to submit to him and disregard any selfishness you have.
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Yeah…be a door mat. You’re just a woman. You don’t have any right to your own feelings or opinions. :rolleyes:

Give me a break!
 
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