Catholic and Orthodox: Best of both worlds

[marimagi]

Why did you choose to leave Orthodoxy?

For some very personal reasons that didn’t have anything to do with changing my love of the Orthodox Church. I really miss it, but I have found a home at the Catholic Church again. I really love both churches for similar AND different reasons. Both churches are entirely true in that they both have the True Presence and both disciplines when practiced with love and dedication, take one straight to the heart of Christ,

 

[Mickey]

But my point is just that Dragani fully endorses the Western explanation of purgatory as true, even though he prefers a different wording & emphasis.

Exactly! The EC’s are required to accept the Western definition…but are compelled to use semantics to arrive at an alternate yet complimentary “Eastern understanding.”

When I was EC, this process felt like an identity crisis.

But that’s just me.

 

[Peter_J]

Exactly! The EC’s are required to accept the Western definition…but are compelled to use semantics to arrive at an alternate yet complimentary “Eastern understanding.”

When I was EC, this process felt like an identity crisis.

But that’s just me.

So, I guess you’ve come a long way from when you saw Eastern Catholicism as “the best of both”.

 

[Mickey]

So, I guess you’ve come a long way from when you saw Eastern Catholicism as “the best of both”.

LOL. Let’s just say I have adjusted my thought process on the matter.

Having said that, I am still very close to many Eastern and Latin Catholic friends and clergy that I have met over the years.

I love them dearly.

 

[steve_b]

Plus it would be rather strange for him to believe that the Catholic Church wrote the New Testament and yet remain a Baptist.

Not to mention, the founder of his religion is John Smyth 400 years ago.That stuff is condemned in scripture.

Therefore, To our Baptist friend, if you’re still around.

Divisions / sects/ dissensions from Our Lord’s Church is condemned. PERIOD! As are those who divide and remain divided. That’s scripture Romans 16:17-20 , Galatians 5:19-21. The HS inspired Paul to write that, and there is no expiration date to that warning. That warning came from Jesus through the HS to Paul. John 16:12-15 and it will be there forever. Therefore Paul is telling us how Jesus will judge those who divide or are divided from the Catholic Church that He established, suffered and died for. Prayers ascending for your conversion. In the meantime, if you have questions ask away

 

[andrewstx]

When I was catechized, the priest taught me that in order to accept the Catholic faith, I HAD to believe everything in the Nicene Creed. He specifically said that I did not have to accept any Marion doctrine if I did not choose to do so. Ultimately, I developed a deep devotion to Mary. But really, the average Catholic does not go around thinking about the doctrine of Immaculate Conception all the time. Maybe some do…but I’ve never met anyone who did. I might get verbally stoned by someone out there, but I don’t think it is worth arguing about. But I do think that miracles occur at Lourdes so, hmmm.

I wish that the Eastern and Western churches could reunite, but I don’t see the Orthodox Church wanting to any time in the near future (if ever.) I do agree that one Church under Rome would change much of what I LOVE about the Orthodox Church. And, I don’t see the Roman Church giving up on the primacy of the pope. So…sigh.

My opinion is that reunion is very unlikely to happen if both sides both lungs do not give and take equally.

To me if only the Orthodox side is required to give it will be more a case of submission to the Latins than reunion. I can see the Pope as first, most important bishop which I believe to be his original role. But one man exclusively as sole head of the entire church with immediate personal jurisdiction goes too far.

The Latin bishops to me are just hired hands under the Patriarch of Rome.

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by Peter J
So, I guess you’ve come a long way from when you saw Eastern Catholicism as “the best of both”.

Oddly enough, it occurs to me that the Orthodox are one factor in the “best of both” thinking, albeit indirectly: that is, I think that Orthodox criticisms are part of the reason that people expect Eastern Catholics to be “the best of both”.

 

[Mickey]

Oddly enough, it occurs to me that the Orthodox are one factor in the “best of both” thinking, albeit indirectly: that is, I think that Orthodox criticisms are part of the reason that people expect Eastern Catholics to be “the best of both”.

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Exactly! The EC’s are required to accept the Western definition…but are compelled to use semantics to arrive at an alternate yet complimentary “Eastern understanding.”

When I was EC, this process felt like an identity crisis.

But that’s just me.

Did you ever think of the fact that us in the Roman Church must accept the Eastern and Oriental understanding of the faith as well. I see, though, two disadvantages to our brethren in the East. The first is sheer numbers, and so being in the minority they may have a tendency to feel as you describe in your post. The other is ignorance, in that while no one in the Eastern Catholic Churches are unaware of the Roman Church and how the Roman Church views the faith many in the Roman Church are completely ignorant of the very existence of the Eastern Churches let alone how the faith is viewed there. Of course, it doesn’t help that many in the Roman Church are equally ignorant of how the Roman Church views the faith as well.

 

[Peter_J]

Did you ever think of the fact that us in the Roman Church must accept the Eastern and Oriental understanding of the faith as well.

Good one.

 

[dvdjs]

Did you ever think of the fact that us in the Roman Church must accept the Eastern and Oriental understanding of the faith as well.

In reality there are very, very few people in Greek Catholic churches who have an “identity crisis” of the sort discussed in this thread. It is pretty much an anonymous on-line phenomenon. There are discussions about fidelity to tradition, just as you find among Orthodox or Latins, but we are comfortable being the same people and the same* church* that we have received and handed down for centuries - really back to SSS C&M.

The point that you make has been put in a interesting way by a few bloggers who have doxed and returned to the CC: There is nothing in the spirituality of Orthodoxy that is not also part of the Catholic Church.

But in the EOC one is forced to accept as legitimate, positions laid out by Romophobes. There is an effort in their work to differentiate for Catholic teachings - an effort that often requires semantic contortions and has led to distortions of Orthodox traditions. See for example: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=794728. This effect is regularly evidenced in discussions here especially on Original Sin, the Immaculate Conception, and purgatory, in which some posters have bent so far backwards to disagree with the Catholic positions that they have wound up supporting Pelagian heresy, advancing the sinfulness of the Theotokos, and promoting the “soul sleep” heresy. Or just dismissing all of this as legitimate but non-binding. In the end, this “identity crisis” has led folk back to the CC.

 

[Nine_Two]

Did you ever think of the fact that us in the Roman Church must accept the Eastern and Oriental understanding of the faith as well. I see, though, two disadvantages to our brethren in the East. The first is sheer numbers, and so being in the minority they may have a tendency to feel as you describe in your post. The other is ignorance, in that while no one in the Eastern Catholic Churches are unaware of the Roman Church and how the Roman Church views the faith many in the Roman Church are completely ignorant of the very existence of the Eastern Churches let alone how the faith is viewed there. Of course, it doesn’t help that many in the Roman Church are equally ignorant of how the Roman Church views the faith as well.

Pleases cite the anathemas against those who don’t accept important Eastern views of things.

 

[bben15]

You can attend Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgies. You can receive the Eucharist at them. They are in full communion with the Holy See. You don’t even have to change rites. You can fulfill your obligation at either a Mass or an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy.

 

[Peter_J]

You can attend Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgies. You can receive the Eucharist at them. They are in full communion with the Holy See. You don’t even have to change rites. You can fulfill your obligation at either a Mass or an Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy.

That’s how it started for me.

 

[Mickey]

Did you ever think of the fact that us in the Roman Church must accept the Eastern and Oriental understanding of the faith as well.

I suppose you are obligated to accept the EC explanation.

I see, though, two disadvantages to our brethren in the East. The first is sheer numbers, and so being in the minority they may have a tendency to feel as you describe in your post.

Yes. The Latin Church is the monolith.

The other is ignorance, in that while no one in the Eastern Catholic Churches are unaware of the Roman Church and how the Roman Church views the faith many in the Roman Church are completely ignorant of the very existence of the Eastern Churches let alone how the faith is viewed there.

Very true.

Of course, it doesn’t help that many in the Roman Church are equally ignorant of how the Roman Church views the faith as well.

Ouch.

 

[Mickey]

That’s how it started for me.

Same here…and ended in the Holy Orthodox Church.

 

[Peter_J]

Same here…and ended in the Holy Orthodox Church.

Personally, I don’t have any plan to break off communion from Rome, but if I did then I would go PNCC.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Personally, I don’t have any plan to break off communion from Rome, but if I did then I would go PNCC.

What is PNCC?

 

[Peter_J]

What is PNCC?

Sorry. Polish National Catholic Church … basically just like the Old Catholics (Union of Utrecht) before the Old Catholics starting going liberal.

 

[steve_b]

Yes. The Latin Church is the monolith.

Hi Mickey, it’s been awhile. Hope all is well.

Yes the Latin Church is ~98% by numbers of the Catholic Church. But in Orthodox terms, doesn’t the Russian Church in numbers, dwarf the other EO Churches? And doesn’t that pose somewhat of a problem for the Ec patriarch in Constantinople?