Catholic and Orthodox popes

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mikeforjesus

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I am a coptic orthodox christian. The divisions of the church truly are an offense to me.
I don’t see why we can’t have one pope who makes the decisions but he is not allowed to take the decisions alone for St Peter was never the wisest of the apostles but St James says they all stumble in all things. The problem is that one orthodox article said the real head of Rome was St Paul not St Peter. But this is far as I imagine is not the reason why there are divisions. Maybe they don’t trust one Pope making decisions. There must be a solution.
There will always be a split in the churches if not everyone is happy with their church.
I think we should let orthodox have their own popes but give primacy to Rome. But we can stand against Rome as St Paul stood against St Peter when he was to be blamed
 
mikeforjesus said:
I am a coptic orthodox christian. The divisions of the church truly are an offense to me.
I don’t see why we can’t have one pope who makes the decisions but he is not allowed to take the decisions alone for St Peter was never the wisest of the apostles but St James says they all stumble in all things. The problem is that one orthodox article said the real head of Rome was St Paul not St Peter. But this is far as I imagine is not the reason why there are divisions. Maybe they don’t trust one Pope making decisions. There must be a solution.
There will always be a split in the churches if not everyone is happy with their church.
I think we should let orthodox have their own popes but give primacy to Rome. But we can stand against Rome as St Paul stood against St Peter when he was to be blamed
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Interesting, how about this go before the blessed sacrament and pray for what Jesus wants the Church to be. What you wants isn’t the worst thing I have heard but I think Jesus knows in the end.
 
mikeforjesus said:
I am a coptic orthodox christian. The divisions of the church truly are an offense to me.
I don’t see why we can’t have one pope who makes the decisions but he is not allowed to take the decisions alone for St Peter was never the wisest of the apostles but St James says they all stumble in all things. The problem is that one orthodox article said the real head of Rome was St Paul not St Peter. But this is far as I imagine is not the reason why there are divisions. Maybe they don’t trust one Pope making decisions. There must be a solution.
There will always be a split in the churches if not everyone is happy with their church.
I think we should let orthodox have their own popes but give primacy to Rome. But we can stand against Rome as St Paul stood against St Peter when he was to be blamed
Click to expand...
Why not choose cardinals from among the various orthodox rites? Does the Roman Pontiff need to be of the Roman Rite?

peace
steve
 
I don’t know maybe you guys are more smarter than me / more informed about the splits and why they are not repaired and his to repair it
I am not a very intelligent orthodox as I don’t dedicate my whole life to church and scriptures
 
The first Pope is St Peter especially chosen as Christ’s Vicar to lead His Church in all truth.

Christ as He established His Church explicitly made four promises to Peter alone:
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.” ( Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19) [Later to the Twelve]

Sole authority:
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

“And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.’ (Jn 21:25).

The Church is “the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Tim 3:16).” St. Paul says also, “through the Church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Eph 3:10).” The Church teaches even the angels! This is with the authority of Christ!
 
Thanks for bringing into remembrance that Jesus told Peter to feed his sheep
That shocked me
Unfortunately that is not enough to convince me Catholicism is the true church even if it should be I can not see justification in conversion from this verse alone
How do you know Jesus was not telling peter to be one of those who would minister a congregation a first among equals as orthodox believe
Jesus said whoever shall be greatest among you let him be slave of all
And the greatest is the child
So how is that possible if you would force me to convert if I want the best reward?
You are seeking to stumble someone who is weak in faith as orthodox would also do to you
A teacher from Judaism might also stumble my faith as I have no time to refute it and it would be my sin for allowing myself to be occupied with various and strange doctrines
You Christians like to tell people they are going to hell for having doubts about Jesus when the person is weak but you can do nothing to him when he is of strong faith
St Paul stops the Galatians from those who try to stop their faith in Christ by saying did you receive the Spirit by the law or by the hearing of faith he tells them only to trust him as he did miracles if pope Kyrillos vi of our church did miracles as my church claims then my church is a true faith in all it’s fullness as you also claim St Padre and St Charbel did miracles and Pope John Paul did
assuming there is a true as the early church fathers seem to suggest and as there was am ordering of clergy when Paul layed hands in Timothy
I am not here to judge your church for I am rebuked for such when Jesus said even if I do judge I am righteous for I am not alone but My Father is with me
That is not the case with me and that is not the case with you
I will tolerate your attack on my church as my words could also be a stumbling block to your church
but you are wrong if you judge me for remaining orthodox and having the fullness of faith in it and for not being servants and trying to have authority
I am willing to convert only if Jesus appears to me like he appeared to Paul for God is not the author of confusion but of peace I don’t even judge Protestants who may have a valid concern about converting
For Paul says to judge nothing before the time
God knows who loves Him and tries to please Him and who does not
I have felt extremely depressed when I heard Benedict say orthodox are not saved or did he not say that ?
It seems to have a chance at the truth I would need to give up all my work but St. Paul said the word is near you in your heart and in your mouth I need a preacher like Paul you make no better claim than orthodox I can refute your words and you can refute mine
You say pope Kyrillos still should have converted to catholic like he was responsible to convert but Jesus did not go to the one who was casting out demons and not following the disciples and condemn him because he knew what the true church was pope Kyrillos vi did not say the Catholic Church was the truth
Overall I am not here to attack your faith or God will punish me because He wants people yo repent and not be carried about with various and strange doctrines we are of those who desired to see what the disciples heard and to hear what they heard
I have no qualms about converting if I thought it was the true church but you would have to prove it to me
Catholics say orthodox are saved but have lesser reward
I do not know catholic is truth so I am not responsible if your church can feed the flock of my church without forcing us to convert I will become catholic
I don’t want to insult my church for nothing
I never say catholic can not be saved or have a lesser reward for not converting so the guilt is on you
 
Real Catholics encourage all to know the Way, the Truth and the Life who is Jesus and thus His Church – “You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.” (Jn 8:32).

Already, Peter had exercised his supreme authority in the upper room before Pentecost to have Judas’ place filled. At the first Apostolic Council of Jerusalem Peter settled the heated discussion over circumcising the gentiles and “the whole assembly fell silent” (Acts 15:7-12). Paul made sure that his ministry to the gentiles was recognised by, Peter (Gal 1:I8).

Peter often spoke for the rest of the Apostles (Mt 19:27; Mk 8:29; Lk 12:41; Jn 6:69). The Apostles are sometimes referred to as “Peter and his companions” (Lk 9:32; Mk 16:7; Acts 2:37). Peter’s name always heads the list of the Apostles (Mt 10:1-4; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13). Finally, Peter’s name is mentioned 191 times, which is more than all the rest of the Apostles combined (about 130 times).

After Peter, the most frequently mentioned Apostle is John, whose name appears 48 times. Peter is conspicuously involved in all the Church’s important “firsts.” Peter led the meeting which elected the first successor to an Apostle ( Acts 1:13-26). Peter preached the first sermon at Pentecost (Acts 2:14), and received the first converts (Acts 2:4 1). Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost (Acts 3:6-7), inflicted the first punishment upon Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:1-11), and excommunicated the first heretic Simon the magician (Acts 8:2 1).

Peter is the first Apostle to raise a person from the dead (Acts 9:36-4 1). Peter first received the revelation to admit Gentiles into the Church (Acts 10:9-16), and commanded that the first Gentile converts be baptized (Acts 10:44-48).

It is high time to face the facts of reality and listen to Christ who founded His Church on St Peter – His Supreme Vicar with His authority to teach on faith and morals.
 
Thanks that is convincing but I am not converting you are responsible before God if you seek to stumble people’s peace in Christ who you should not I can not say if you are in error or not but if you continue this way to reject my church be prepared for orthodox to defend their faith because you bring on war
I am really busy with uni or work if I gave that all up I would be happy to debate and maybe God will convert me to your church but I am not convinced now that it is not a stumbling block to our church members
You guys seem to treat us like dogs will we stay dogs forever ?
You treat us like dogs even though we want to do Gods will but are not convinced God wants us to convert
 
Umm, scuse me, but what are you talking about?

There have been MANY Greek Popes.

Pope John-6 (701-705) was the last Greek Pope (he was the 86th Pope, of a line of mostly Greek Popes). MOST early Popes were Greek, and about a THIRD of all Popes (by today’s standard) were Greek.

The language of the Early Church was Greek. Almost all of the New Testament (with the possible exception of parts of the Gospel of Matthew) were originally written in Greek (and NONE of it was originally written in Latin - bits of Matthew might have been written in Aramaic).

The original common Christian version of the Old Testament was the Septuagint, written entirely in Greek. The majority of the Early Church Fathers who have been canonized were Greek-speaking.

In the history of the (Roman) Catholic Church, Greek Christians have been WELL represented.
 
Who ever disagreed there was any Greek popes ?
I guess you are responding to Steve
 
I apologise if I am a stumbling block to anyone
I never really ever had an unshakable faith but God always saved me and I think it must be Him that sustained my hope in Him and made me accept that He accepts all honest Christians and provided help to me to be convinced orthodoxy is a true church or way to salvation but I know Catholics are also
 
mikeforjesus said:
Who ever disagreed there was any Greek popes ?
I guess you are responding to Steve
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No, I was responding to you.

I wanted to communicate that Eastern (Greek, Orthodox) Christians played an essential role in the Early Church, and that no (informed) Western (Latin) Catholic could disagree.

Your original post seemed to present a divide between Latin and Eastern theology which transcends the Papacy. I wished to present the fact that the Bishop of Rome has held primacy in the Catholic Church from ancient times, and that most Bishops of Rome before the Great Schism were, in fact, Greek.

Maybe I did not correctly understand your original question?
 
DavidFilmer said:
No, I was responding to you.

I wanted to communicate that Eastern (Greek, Orthodox) Christians played an essential role in the Early Church, and that no (informed) Western (Latin) Catholic could disagree.

Your original post seemed to present a divide between Latin and Eastern theology which transcends the Papacy. I wished to present the fact that the Bishop of Rome has held primacy in the Catholic Church from ancient times, and that most Bishops of Rome before the Great Schism were, in fact, Greek.

Maybe I did not correctly understand your original question?
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Ok thanks for clarifying. Well the Greek Orthodox have their own petrine pontificate now I assume. They believe the catholic deviated from orthodoxy. They still hold primacy to peter but they don’t believe the catholic pope has the right to be pope anymore.
I remember reading on the details but I forget them now. They maintain a peter first among equals but I don’t know or remember how they do it exactly, if they have a petrine pope or what

BTW I am worried about the protestants well being if we hinder them from repenting before they find the truth. For truth is only revealed to those who obey Christ and try to do His will. So they must be accepted now but if they want the fullness of truth or they will be condemned in some manner for not finding the fullness of truth it must be if they have been shown the truth but they reject it willfully as some of your posters here seem to suggest. When they refuse salvation for themselves but I can’t say who does that or not. But Christ says He condemns no one. Yet if He does condemn He is not alone but with the Father who sent Him who has the authority to condemn and proof
so if any want to take it that I am a protestant because I don’t condem them then I am though I believe in a true church so long as they don’t condemn those outside it who are honest to eternal condemnation though some may be damned who refuse truth but it is not for us to say. I am not proud of a church that does not witness and do miracles and prove itself
 
I am never going to get serious about truth because I don’t even want anyone to be damned according to a churches way I want to determine the reason for damnation if there ever is
Maybe I should never have taken this responsibility on myself to change anyone but listened to my own church but I will follow what I feel is necessary
 
Mike,

I would definitely consult your spiritual father if you are confused or unsure about something. We do have a “Petrine Ministry”…ALL Bishops are Peter. In addition, Antioch is a Petrine See. Talk to your priest, that is all I can say to you on that.
 
It is not only respect but obedience that is required. The third successor of St Peter, Clement, wrote to the Catholics of Corinth in A.D. 95: “If any man should be disobedient unto the words spoken by God through us, let them understand that they will entangle themselves in no slight transgression and danger… Render obedience to the things written by us through the Holy Spirit.” (I Clem. ad Cor. 59,1).

The Orthodox and all others are always very welcome to the same unity through assent and obedience, the life-blood of Christ’s Church. The unity of the Latin and Eastern Rite Catholics means just that – unity in teaching, sanctification and governance. One, holy, catholic and apostolic.

(785) There are about twenty groups of Eastern Orthodox Churches existing as national Churches in a state of separation from Rome and independently of one another as regards authority or jurisdiction. So we have the Greek Orthodox Church, or the Syrian, or Russian, or Rumanian, or Bulgarian, etc. As contrasted with these twenty separated groups, there are nine or ten different Eastern Rite Churches which are in union with Rome, acknowledging Papal Supremacy. These are popularly spoken of as the “Uniate Eastern Churches” and members of them are recognised by the Pope as Catholics every bit as much as Western or Latin Rite members of the Catholic Church.
radioreplies.info/radio-replies-vol-5.php?t=15&n=787
 
Misplaced_Book said:
Mike,

I would definitely consult your spiritual father if you are confused or unsure about something. We do have a “Petrine Ministry”…ALL Bishops are Peter. In addition, Antioch is a Petrine See. Talk to your priest, that is all I can say to you on that.
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Thanks Misplaced book I ask you and the church to pardon me for appearing to be disloyal to my church and lowering its honor and allowing people here to try to convert me based on my confusion alone
 
Mikeforjesus #17
ALL Bishops are Peter
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With such an erroneous and myopic feeling, no wonder there is so much confusion over truth. No wonder such confusion and error has produced the feeling that primacy and infallibility can be ignored when it suits – such as with the case of the Orthodox Churches over the infallible teaching against contraception, denial of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, and the permission of divorce and remarriage…

Where does Christ give a free-for–all for any “bishops” to replace His Magisterium so clearly defined at Vatican I?
The Dogmatic Constitution from Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus, Session 4 : 18 July 1870
Chapter 3
On the institution of the apostolic primacy in blessed Peter.
And it was to Peter alone that Jesus, after his resurrection, confided the jurisdiction of Supreme Pastor and ruler of his whole fold, saying: Feed my lambs, feed my sheep [44].
  1. To this absolutely manifest teaching of the Sacred Scriptures, as it has always been understood by the Catholic Church, are clearly opposed the distorted opinions of those who misrepresent the form of government which Christ the lord established in his Church and deny that Peter, in preference to the rest of the apostles, taken singly or collectively, was endowed by Christ with a true and proper primacy of jurisdiction.
  2. The same may be said of those who assert that this primacy was not conferred immediately and directly on blessed Peter himself, but rather on the Church, and that it was through the Church that it was transmitted to him in his capacity as her minister.
  3. Therefore, if anyone says that blessed Peter the apostle was not appointed by Christ the lord as prince of all the apostles and visible head of the whole Church militant; or that it was a primacy of honor only and not one of true and proper jurisdiction that he directly and immediately received from our lord Jesus Christ himself: let him be anathema.
  4. So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.”
 
mikeforjesus said:
Thanks Misplaced book I ask you and the church to pardon me for appearing to be disloyal to my church and lowering its honor and allowing people here to try to convert me based on my confusion alone
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All thanks to God.

It isn’t about being “loyal” or “disloyal”…you have questions, and there is nothing wrong with that. Don’t listen to anyone who is taking advantage of your spiritual vulnerability…don’t take my word for it. Consult your Spiritual Father.

God be with you.
 
Abu said:
With such an erroneous and myopic feeling, no wonder there is so much confusion over truth. No wonder such confusion and error has produced the feeling that primacy and infallibility can be ignored when it suits – such as with the case of the Orthodox Churches over the infallible teaching against contraception, denial of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, and the permission of divorce and remarriage…

Where does Christ give a free-for–all for any “bishops” to replace His Magisterium so clearly defined at Vatican I?
The Dogmatic Constitution from Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus, Session 4 : 18 July 1870
Chapter 3
On the institution of the apostolic primacy in blessed Peter.
And it was to Peter alone that Jesus, after his resurrection, confided the jurisdiction of Supreme Pastor and ruler of his whole fold, saying: Feed my lambs, feed my sheep [44].
  1. To this absolutely manifest teaching of the Sacred Scriptures, as it has always been understood by the Catholic Church, are clearly opposed the distorted opinions of those who misrepresent the form of government which Christ the lord established in his Church and deny that Peter, in preference to the rest of the apostles, taken singly or collectively, was endowed by Christ with a true and proper primacy of jurisdiction.
  2. The same may be said of those who assert that this primacy was not conferred immediately and directly on blessed Peter himself, but rather on the Church, and that it was through the Church that it was transmitted to him in his capacity as her minister.
  3. Therefore, if anyone says that blessed Peter the apostle was not appointed by Christ the lord as prince of all the apostles and visible head of the whole Church militant; or that it was a primacy of honor only and not one of true and proper jurisdiction that he directly and immediately received from our lord Jesus Christ himself: let him be anathema.
  4. So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.”
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Quoting Vatican I will have quite a negative effect in any ecumenical discussions with Orthodox…just putting it out there.
 
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