Catholic and Orthodox reunion

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JJ452 said:
Well thank you for your polite response. In that case then, would you please tell me what the difference is between the “old style” & the “new style”?
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I suppose one has to know both the history, and current state, of the Maronite Church to see the nuance. I’m sorry, but that’s as clear I can be.
 
MorEphrem said:
Wow, way to take my quote WAY out of context. Really, congratulations, it takes effort to misconstrue that badly. Get off your high horse and stop preaching at someone who didn’t say anything contrary. That in itself is one of the major obstacles with with a unification: many Latins like to misconstrue everything and bend your arm if it isn’t said exactly how they want it :mad:.
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It was not my intention to offend anyone! I clearly stated that I was trying to make a humorous remark on an issue that - and this you have no way to know - has brought some degree of suffering in my personal life. Besides, three users were quoted. No need to take it so personal.

While your criticism towards my person and towards Latins may be partially justified, I think we ought to focus on finding common ground and pray for unification, with a pinch of good cheer. We never accomplished much by taking ourselves too seriously.
 
R_C said:
It was not my intention to offend anyone! I clearly stated that I was trying to make a humorous remark on an issue that - and this you have no way to know - has brought some degree of suffering in my personal life. Besides, three users were quoted. No need to take it so personal.

While your criticism towards my person and towards Latins may be partially justified, I think we ought to focus on finding common ground and pray for unification, with a pinch of good cheer. We never accomplished much by taking ourselves too seriously.
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I was one of the members quoted, so I suppose I’m entitled to a comment. Whatever … and not to butt in, but despite the qualifier, I didn’t think the remark in question was all that “humorous” either. 🤷
 
malphono said:
I was one of the members quoted, so I suppose i"m entitled to a comment. Whatever … and not to butt in, but despite the qualifier, I didn’t think the remark in question was all that “humorous” either. 🤷
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There are two ways to make a point when something that strikes as a contradiction of Scripture is posted. One way is by trying to make a humorous post. I chose that way.

I could have also refrained from posting, but I think it is important to realize that the reunification of the Catholic and the Orthodox Church is not a work that we do because we want to, but because it is the Lord’s will, given that we are talking about apostolic Churches.
 
R_C said:
We never accomplished much by taking ourselves too seriously.
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:ehh:

That’s an odd comment to make in this context.

Start taking things seriously and you might be surprised how much better you’re likely to get along with people who don’t share your viewpoint (both outside of your communion and, apparently, within it). I mean, we’re still not going to unite with you no matter how nice you are, but it might go some way toward you understanding why that is.

Monastic vows taken during the consecration of new monks at the monastery of St. Anthony in the Egyptian desert
 
R_C said:
There are two ways to make a point when something that strikes as a contradiction of Scripture is posted. One way is by trying to make a humorous post. I chose that way.
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That’s all fine and well if I had contradicted Scripture. I apologize if I’ve upset you but it is very offensive to be told you’re disobeying the Word of God, even if it’s presented in a joking fashion. I will reiterate that I never said anything against restoring communion between all Churches, in fact that’s one of the main reasons I remain in the Maronite Church [instead of abandoning ship to the Syriac Orthodox] despite many liturgical changes I find terrible. I will once again say I just think trying to conflate local hierarchies will never work - that is not an impediment to unification, that is a practical concern as eliminating individual Church hierarchies would cause major issues with the whole sui iuris concept.
 
R_C said:
There are two ways to make a point when something that strikes as a contradiction of Scripture is posted. One way is by trying to make a humorous post. I chose that way.
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If I said “We Catholics will never forsake our beliefs in order to enter into full communion with people who don’t share those beliefs” would I be contradicting Scripture?
 
dzheremi said:
Start taking things seriously and you might be surprised how much better you’re likely to get along with people who don’t share your viewpoint …] I mean, we’re still not going to unite with you no matter how nice you are
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I guess you will be called to give account to the good Lord for your “serious” words of division, and I will be called to give account for my not-too-serious ones for unity. Let’s see who will be more surprised.
MorEphrem said:
t it is very offensive to be told you’re disobeying the Word of God, even if it’s presented in a joking fashion.
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It would be indeed, if I had said so. Accusations fly easily on this thread, and people should think twice before making them. Certainly this is the kind of dialogue one wants to avoid at all cost. Let me clarify things with you. You quoted (in post #5) my statement: “my understanding of brotherly communion was that there would no longer be such thing as Easterners and Latins, but just the elders of the Church” and replied: “I think that both highly impractical and unlikely.” I don’t think that is impractical and unlikely. I did think that your argument is in line with those who also considered unity impractical and unlikely, so I quoted you as well. If that wasn’t your point, I already apologized above, and you can keep beating on me with a rod, or you take the apology. Either works for me.

For the others I quoted, who remarked with astonishing firmness that reunion of the two apostolic churches was unlikely or even impossible (clearly they know better than the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartolomeos, who said the opposite) I remarked that those words seem to contradict other words which I read in Scripture, that call to become one flock and exhort to set aside all divisions and be of one mind. Did I say that someone is disobeying God’s words? Of course not! I only said: the remark that the two apostolic churches won’t reunite seems to contradict the Lord’s desire that we become one flock, and the remark of the blessed apostle Paul that we set aside all division in the name of Christ.
Peter_J said:
If I said “We Catholics will never forsake our beliefs in order to enter into full communion with people who don’t share those beliefs” would I be contradicting Scripture?
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You would have to define what “beliefs” are those, and who are “we Catholics”, because as far as I am concerned only truth cannot be forsaken, and our understanding of truth is given by the Holy Spirit, for instance when our elders exercise their office in an Ecumenical Council. “We Catholics” may very well gather one day in an Ecumenical Council with our Eastern brethren and be guided by the Spirit of Truth to a greater understanding of our respective beliefs that no longer prevents us from being in full communion. Theologians have been studying and debating for decades, no, for centuries those parts of our beliefs that seem to divide us, and matters are far more complex than probably most of us put together would ever be able to grasp - which is why I said we cannot take ourselves too seriously on this forum, since we are not bishops in a Council, but anonymous users on the Internet with (I speak for myself) very limited knowledge of the most painful thorn in the flesh of Holy Church.

I salute you, apologize if I offended you, and will keep praying for unity, since clearly this is impossible for men, but - and that was my point - not for God, who can accomplish all He wills.
 
R_C said:
Certainly this is the kind of dialogue one wants to avoid at all cost.
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I wouldn’t go that far, but I do find that it’s a bit tiresome listening to you telling posters that they are contradicting Scripture.

Anyhow, I don’t think we need to continue this dialogue, so it’s “all good” so to speak.
 
R_C said:
You would have to define what “beliefs” are those, and who are “we Catholics”, because as far as I am concerned only truth cannot be forsaken, and our understanding of truth is given by the Holy Spirit, for instance when our elders exercise their office in an Ecumenical Council. “We Catholics” may very well gather one day in an Ecumenical Council with our Eastern brethren and be guided by the Spirit of Truth to a greater understanding of our respective beliefs that no longer prevents us from being in full communion. Theologians have been studying and debating for decades, no, for centuries those parts of our beliefs that seem to divide us, and matters are far more complex than probably most of us put together would ever be able to grasp - which is why I said we cannot take ourselves too seriously on this forum, since we are not bishops in a Council, but anonymous users on the Internet with (I speak for myself) very limited knowledge of the most painful thorn in the flesh of Holy Church.
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This makes me curious to ask if you (1) think that all Latin synods have been ecumenical councils as the Church claims (2) if an ecumenical council can contradict an earlier ecumenical council.
 
dzheremi said:
With friends (and threads) like these, I don’t think it’s dismissive in the least to say that the question of the OP or any particular answer to it is definitely putting the cart before the horse, to put it mildly.
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Indeed. We still have a long way to go.
 
Wandile said:
In the event of the Orthodox coming back into communion, which patriarch would step down and which would be considered the true one?

Like in the case of the antiochans, who would be regarded as the legitimate one? The Melkite, Antiochan orthodox, maronite or Syrian Catholic one?

Or in the case of Jerusalem, the Catholic or Orthodox one?

Would a synod be held to determine this?

Any ideas?
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“Every church should agree with the church of Rome because of its PREEMINENT authority”

I wonder what the Orthodox think when they read this statement from St Irenaeus?

Although they do have apostolic succession through their churches,Constantinople although, being a big question mark.They do infact have valid sacraments, but they are illicit.
It would be in the Orthodox Churches best interest to reunite and become in full communion with Rome.They should use the Eastern Catholic Churches as a model and become one Church as our Lord desires.

I believe that one of the secrets of our Lady of Fatima was the conversion of Russia,that Russia must be consecrated to the Immaculate heart of Mary.

We as Catholics can only pray for their conversion to the Catholic faith.

Sveti Ante- Moli za nas:thumbsup:
 
Why are you promoting this idea on this forum? Most Eastern Catholics would not agree with your statements at all.
 
JJ452 said:
I don’t know what to think about Francis either. From what I’ve seen and read; he’s out just to fill the pews.
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What the Catholic Church needs is a Pope Pius XIII, to restore our beloved church, and correct the many errors of the pastoral Vatican II council.

Sveti Ante.👍
 
Lots of things about this thread make me sad… So I will just quote something recent from Pope Francis (he is much more articulate than I could ever be) while addressing a recent delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople to Rome

“The search for unity among Christians is an urgency from which today, more than ever, we cannot subtract ourselves. In our world, hungry and thirsty for truth, love, hope, peace and unity, it is important for our own witness to be able to, finally, proclaim with one voice the happy news of the Gospel and to celebrate together the Divine Mysteries of our new life in Christ! We know well that unity is primarily a gift from God for which we must pray incessantly for, but to all of us have the task of preparing the conditions, of cultivating the ground of the heart, so that this extraordinary grace will be received”
 
Rafkqa said:
We know well that unity is primarily a gift from God for which we must pray incessantly for,
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well…it seems that some believe God wont be giving that gift of unity as they’ve said unity will never happen

either one can pray ,hope and believe or otherwise never pray or hope but speak for God and spread the word that unity will never happen
 
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