Catholic and Protestant movement

[PolarExpress975]

Hey I see that there is a couple threads about Catholic and Protestant. I particularly have a certain few questions I did not see in those threads. First before I get started i would like to introduce myself my name is Nathan and I’m a 26 year old Male and I will leave it there . I grew up as a catholic and went thru all classes and became an adult member of the church. I left the church a couple years after high school and I fell into new age occult because I got the wrong idea because of the archangel prayers the church has and i decided it was ok to try out angel tarot cards because it wasnt regular tarot. And well that obviously opened up doors that will be hard to close now but that’s a whole other topic. Then I became a protestant but anyways for two years I’ve been battling between the protestant and catholic. And while some of the protestants beliefs seem valid it not quite sure anymore because I was watching different priests debates with protestants. Because from what I gathered up over time and from what I watched. The catholic church is accused of things that aren’t there fault, like adding books to the bible but they were always there and the protestants tried to remove books. But my question is how is the church or pope suppose to be infallible when Paul explicity said wolves would enter the church when he’s gone. Also isnt the rosary vain petition since its repeating the same prayer over and over again in a ritualistic way. I also dont believe we need a priest for confession when we can go to the father our self in jesus name and ask for forgive, because that was an old testament thing before we had Christ. That’s the few things I question. I have more but I’ll wait for some answers because I dont want to have a huge giant wall of text.

 

[GladTidings]

I also dont believe we need a priest for confession when we can go to the father our self in jesus name and ask for forgive,

It was set up by God, through Jesus, for us to confess our sins, especially mortal sins, to a priest, in John 20, 19-23.

19 On that evening of the first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain, are retained.”

This is the only other time in the Bible where it is recorded that God breathed on man, the first being in Genesis when man was created. To me, that speaks volumes as to how incredibly powerful, important, and necessary confession is.

The priest, acting in the person of Christ, is doing what Jesus would do if He were here walking among us today. Ultimately, Jesus is hearing your confession, the priest is checking for contrition and is there to speak the words of absolution and give advice sometimes, plus to assign a task for atonement, (three Hail Marys , three Our Fathers , go to the adoration chapel for ten minutes, etc.).

In verse 23, the only way the priests are going to know what sins the person is confessing to is by hearing the confession. The penitent has to speak them.

So comforting are the words of absolution when spoken by a priest, whose ordination goes all the way back to the time of Jesus and the apostles. Otherwise, how will you know you have been absolved of your sins?

 

[Convert3]

I grew up Protestant and converted at age 60. The readings I’ve done and the RCIA class I took convinced me all the beliefs you mentioned were not the truth. Others on this forum can address your concerns better than I can, but please, take the time to research and understand the Catholic beliefs. It is the true church. I also suggest you listen to “Call to Communion” on EWTN radio or listen to the podcasts. It is an excellent show that answers many questions like yours. God Bless.

 

[GladTidings]

I have more but I’ll wait for some answers because I dont want to have a huge giant wall of text.

It’s good you have more questions, but maybe start separate threads for each subject spread out over time. I think we are supposed to do it that way.

 

[Justin_Mary]

Also isnt the rosary vain petition since its repeating the same prayer over and over again in a ritualistic way

What do you think the word “vain” means?

 

[Justin_Mary]

I also dont believe we need a priest for confession when we can go to the father our self in jesus name and ask for forgive, because that was an old testament thing before we had Christ

First, there were a lot of things that were ok before Christ that isn’t okay now; divorce, an eye for an eye, lustful thoughts.

Secondly, no that’s not the way it was before Christ. If you offended God you would bring an offering to His priest who would then take your sins & your offering & petition for the forgiveness of your sins.

An offering from me you will not accept but a contrite & humble spirit you will not spurn. He’s not saying don’t bring the offerings. He’s saying don’t bring them in vain.

 

[thistle]

isnt the rosary vain petition since its repeating the same prayer over and over again in a ritualistic way.

Since When Is It Vain to Pray the Rosary? | Catholic Answers Magazine

Why the Rosary Isn't "Vain Repetitions" | Catholic Answers Q&A

 

[GladTidings]

Also isnt the rosary vain petition since its repeating the same prayer over and over again

It is repetitive, but it is nowhere near vain, meaning pointless or useless.

 

[steve-b]

[snip]

my question is how is the church or pope suppose to be infallible when Paul explicity said wolves would enter the church when he’s gone.

Didn’t Jesus choose Judas who he later calls a devil? Jesus knew who Judas was before He chose him. Obviously ordination(s) as Jesus shows, could and will have wolves. We are to look out for them. and deal with them. I wish Jesus protected us from them but He doesn’t. Anymore than Jesus protects us from rank and file wolves who can show up as rotten Catholics.

He DOES promise, to protect His Church from teaching error. And He gives His Church the soul saving sacraments we absolutely need.

PolarExpress975:

Also isnt the rosary vain petition since its repeating the same prayer over and over again in a ritualistic way.

No and here’s WHY

PolarExpress975:

I also dont believe we need a priest for confession when we can go to the father our self in jesus name and ask for forgive, because that was an old testament thing before we had Christ. That’s the few things I question. I have more but I’ll wait for some answers because I dont want to have a huge giant wall of text.

If Jesus said, only come to ME and all is good, Why in the world then would He complicate that perfectly simple understanding by ordaining His apostles (giving them the authority) to forgive AND retain people’s sins? HERE thereby instituting the sacrament of reconciliation.

And, as an aside,

I don’t recall Jesus giving the apostles the ability to mind read. So, how are they supposed to forgive or retain someone elses sins … unless one confesses their sins to them?

Also

Why would John make the following distinction between sins (mortal vs not mortal) adding "There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that." [1 Jn 5:16]

So​

How does one in Mortal sin get rid of Mortal sin on their soul?

One avails them self of Sacramental confession, to a validly ordained priest, just as Jesus instituted.

 

[GladTidings]

But my question is how is the church or pope suppose to be infallible

The holy Spirit guides the Church Jesus created to ensure, “the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” ( Matthew 16:18) Men alone really make a mess of things and fall into myths and fables, heresies, etc.

 

[De_Maria]

Hey I see that there is a couple threads about Catholic and Protestant. I particularly have a certain few questions I did not see in those threads. First before I get started i would like to introduce myself my name is Nathan and I’m a 26 year old Male and I will leave it there . …

Hi and welcome.

But my question is how is the church infallible … when Paul explicity said wolves would enter the church when he’s gone.

Good question.

Except for the Pope, individual Catholics are not infallible. Even Bishops, are not infallible. Let me give you an example. A certain Bishop named Arius, started a movement in the 4th century. It is called the Arianism. It is said that 90% of Catholics were fooled and began to follow this man’s idea.

The Pope, however, was not affected. He convened a council and the entire Church came together to discuss this problem. St. Athanasius stepped up and proved to the Church, from Sacred Tradition and Scripture, that the Arian teaching was a heresy.

So, although many people in the Church fell to this error, the Church continued to Teach the Traditions of Jesus Christ, infallibly.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

But my question is how is the pope suppose to be infallible when Paul explicity said wolves would enter the church when he’s gone.

We believe this is a gift from Jesus Christ. He said to St. Peter, the first Pope,

Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

We believe this gift has been passed down to all who sit in St. Peter’s Chair. And, although there have been Popes who have wavered and even Popes who had personal beliefs which were false, they never passed those errors to the Church because they are protected from teaching errors.

Also isnt the rosary vain petition since its repeating the same prayer over and over again in a ritualistic way.

We don’t consider it vain. Done properly, it is a meditation on the life of Christ.

I also dont believe we need a priest for confession when we can go to the father our self in jesus name and ask for forgive, because that was an old testament thing before we had Christ.

God gave the Church the ministry of Reconciliation.

2 Cor 5:20 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

That’s the few things I question. I have more but I’ll wait for some answers because I dont want to have a huge giant wall of text.

Sure. Feel free to ask as many questions as you want. I hope these answers help you in your journey. May God bless you!

 

[Gorgias]

my question is how is the church or pope suppose to be infallible

Hi, Nathan!

I think it’s important to keep in mind what “infallibility” means in the context of the Church… and what it doesn’t mean!

The Catholic Church is only saying that doctrinal teachings on faith and morals – when they’re made either by the pope or by the pope together with all the bishops – are free from error. In addition, it’s not everything they say, but only when they invoke infallibility. That’s it. Nothing more. If Pope Francis talks about global warming, he’s speaking authoritatively, but not infallibly. And, if he talks about his favorite soccer team, he’s not talking either authoritatively or infallibly!

The Church teaches with authority (after all, it was Jesus himself who instituted the Church and gave it authority!), but people tend to blow the term “infallibility” way out of proportion, and as if it were much more extensive than it really is.

 

[OddBird]

I also dont believe we need a priest for confession when we can go to the father our self in jesus name and ask for forgive

I’m a Protestant, baptized Catholic, on the path to home right now.

Other posters have offered you biblical references and theological explanations on confession.

I have not much more to share than my own experience ; I don’t know how much it will resonate with yours or not.

I used to think as you do now. I tried to ignore or explain away the Bible verses mentioned upthread. But if I’m being really honest with myself, I have to recognize this : the true reason why I tried to do away with the need for confession is because I’m a coward.

I simply couldn’t face what it meant, putting blunt, clear, unambiguous words out loud on my sins in the presence of someone who listens. For me, it was so much easier to say mentally “I’m sorry, Lord”, and not to dwell too much on what I was sorry for.

But I think that ultimately, the Christian faith is about truth : the truth about God, the truth about the world, the truth about evil in the world, the truth about ourselves and evil in ourselves. We shouldn’t be afraid of the truth. Jesus promised the truth would set us free.

There came a time where, for various reasons, I couldn’t hold it back any longer, and I mustered as much courage as I could to get myself to confession. It wasn’t easy, with such a long past of sins to confess. But it also was an amazing encounter with God’s mercy, one I don’t think I’ll ever forget, a turning point in my life. And it really did set me free – what years and years of “I’m sorry” hadn’t done. It straightened the way I look at myself, and gave me an earnest desire to get closer to that merciful God.

So now I confess regularly, and I wonder why on earth I ever thought it would be a good idea to deprive myself from such a grace.

 

[Michael16]

OP, I’m sorry you’re struggling. I did for a lot of years myself. I suggest that you go to. Confession, hear Mass and pray. Read Scripture.

The Protestants are not the truth. The Church is.

I’m not going to quote Scripture, theology or Church documents at you.

All I’m going to do is to invite you to look at the saints and their holy lives. I’m thinking of Saints Francis of Assisi and Catherine of Siena in particular.

We’ve had so many beautiful and wonderful saintly examples over 2,000 years of the Church. That’s the best examples of the truth of the Church that I can think of.

The rest is teaching and commentary; IMHO.

I’m sorry to say this and I mean this in love: If the Protestants were teaching the pure and unadulterated truth and fullness of the Gospel; then why are there so many denominations and so very few examples worthy of emulation? There’s only two Protestant examples I can think of and they’re Billy Graham and Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

 

[GladTidings]

the true reason why I tried to do away with the need for confession is because I’m a coward.

I used to as well. We convince ourselves it is easier to hide our sins, like Adam and Eve, when they were hiding from God.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

Hello! and welcome! With regard to your statement on confession. I would like you to consider that it is firmly supported in both Scripture and Tradition.

Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - Under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.

Isa. 22:22 - Under the Old Covenant, the High Priest could “open and shut” access to God’s mercy.

Mt. 16:19;18:18 - Under the New Covenant the apostles are given authority to “bind and loose” penalties of sin.

Jn. 20:21-23 - Under the New Covenant Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive or retain sins.

“In church confess your sins, and do not come to your prayer with a guilt conscience. Such is the Way of Life…On the Lord’s own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure."
Didache 4:14,14:1 (A.D. ~90 )

“… Thine high priest, that he may minister blamelessly by night and day, that he may unceasingly behold and appropriate Thy countenance and offer to Thee the gifts of Thy holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority to forgive sins…”
St. Hippolytus of Rome, Apostolic Tradition (A.D. 215)

“In addition to these there is also a seventh, albeit hard and laborious: the remission of sins through penance…when he does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord.”
Origen, Homilies on Leviticus (A.D. 248)

“I have recently heard that some have unlawfully presumed to act contrary to a rule of Apostolic origin… All that is necessary, however, is for the sinner to manifest his conscience in a secret confession to the priests alone…It is sufficient, therefore, to have first offered one’s confession to God, and then also to the priest, who acts as an intercessor for the transgressions of the penitents”
Pope St Leo the Great, Magna indignation (A.D. 459)

“All mortal sins are to be submitted to the keys of the Church and all can be forgiven; but recourse to these keys is the only, the necessary, and the certain way to forgiveness. Unless those who are guilty of grievous sin have recourse to the power of the keys, they cannot hope for eternal salvation. Open your lips, them, and confess your sins to the priest. Confession alone is the true gate to Heaven.”
St. Augustine of Hippo, Christian Combat (A.D. 397)

 

[vern_humphrey]

Also isnt the rosary vain petition since its repeating the same prayer over and over again in a ritualistic way.

No. The rosary is MEDITATIVE prayer. You say the prayers while meditating on the mysteries. Every religion (and not just Christian religions) recognizes the need for repetitive prayers or mantras to put you into the right meditative frame of mind.

 

[PolarExpress975]

Yeah, No you are correct I agree with you I was watching a YouTube video as well as found a website the other day arguing the catholic protestant debate and both were spot on with many things that I saved it in my history. Also the guy in the video brought up the fact that protestants try to say Constantine created the Catholic church and introduced paganism, but proved that it was false because we had popes before that.

 

[Michael16]

Yeah. It’s unfortunate how they twist and use everything they can to support their errors. I’m not being angry or mean when I’m saying this. I’m meaning it in love and I hope people will see that in my posts.