Catholic Annulment?

[Jaded27]

What all is involved in a church annulment? I am divorced and have been for over a year now. I wasn’t married in the Catholic church. Before I could get married IN a church would my former marriage have to be annulled and what is involved in that?

I don’t want them questioning my ex husband because even though we are civil to one another he won’t be happy about me marrying a Catholic and might make up something to try to make them say “no” to me and my fiancée. Any ideas about that?

Just looking for a bit of “knowing what to expect” and not much criticism. Thanks.

 

[beckyann2597]

Call your local parish. The office can give you the number of someone close by (usually an annulment expert for the diocese) who can give you all the information you need. Also, there are usually divorce support groups at church. You can call the person who heads the group about it because I am certain that someone in the group has encountered a situation close to yours.

 

[Jaded27]

okay

 

[CARose]

My first (and now annulled) marriage was also outside the church. I am not in contact with my ex-husband (we had no children, thank God) and I don’t know that they even had to contact him.

Each annulment is it’s own case, depending on the circumstances and grounds for the annulment. In my case, my pastor was able to assist me in walking through the process. I agree with BeckyAnn that you should start there. Ask the secretary if you can book some time to talk to the pastor regarding an annullment.

Are you Catholic yourself, or is it just your fiance who is Catholic? Are you considering converting to Catholicism? These are all things that the Priest will likely ask, in addition to the details of your intent when you married (e.g. were you intending to have children together, did you intend to stay married for life, etc)

Good luck and God Bless,

CARose

 

[Aesq]

Jaded27:

What all is involved in a church annulment? I am divorced and have been for over a year now. I wasn’t married in the Catholic church. Before I could get married IN a church would my former marriage have to be annulled and what is involved in that?

I don’t want them questioning my ex husband because even though we are civil to one another he won’t be happy about me marrying a Catholic and might make up something to try to make them say “no” to me and my fiancée. Any ideas about that?

Just looking for a bit of “knowing what to expect” and not much criticism. Thanks.

Yes you would have to get a decree of nullity granted before you could get married to someone Catholic. The Church presumes all marriages to be valid until proven otherwise. Therefore, the Church sees you as still married. As such, a person who is Catholic cannot marry you at this time as you are married.

Your former spouse will be notified of the proceedings and be provided a chance to respond. This is required. It can not avoided. I valid decree can not be granted if every effort is not taken to protect the rights of the respondent. You will be required to provide witnesses. It is not just your word against his. Furthermore, he would likely not know what to say to try to prevent a favorable ruling, as a nullity really has nothing to do with what happened during the marriage. It is really all about the validity of the marriage at the time of the wedding.

 

[Jaded27]

CARose:

Are you Catholic yourself, or is it just your fiance who is Catholic? Are you considering converting to Catholicism? These are all things that the Priest will likely ask, in addition to the details of your intent when you married (e.g. were you intending to have children together, did you intend to stay married for life, etc)

Good luck and God Bless,

CARose

Just my fiancee and no.
This may be a dumb question, but is it “bad” if the answers to the two example questions you gave about “intent” are “yes”?

 

[Jaded27]

Aesq:

Your former spouse will be notified of the proceedings and be provided a chance to respond. This is required. It can not avoided.

what about what CARose said? That they didn’t contact her ex. Is that a special circumstance or something?

I know he probably wouldn’t know what exactly to say. I can just see him not cooperating AT ALL is all and I’d rather save myself the stress if at all possible. But if it’s not, then oh well. Bring on the heart attack! lol.

 

[CARose]

In my case, my ex was never baptised, so it fell into another circumstance.

CARose

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Like Rose said, EACH CASE IS DIFFERENT. It’s a matter of knowing where he is. If you don’t know or aren’t sure, they place a notice, just as they do in a civil divorce where the spouse has been abandoned and the other can’t be found.

That being said- If it makes you feel better, they (the tribunal) found my spouse. He refused to participate, and in fact, got a bit nasty with them, as he had converted then decided he did not like the marriage laws of the Church (kind of like Henry VIII). And as I said in another thread, my mother decided to be a witness and really ripped on me in particular and people seeking anullments in general. The tribunal took her comments into consideration IN MY FAVOR.

Do you have contact with your ex on a regular basis because of children? Are you afraid he’s just going to make nasty comments to be spiteful? Was there abuse in your prior marriage? The tribunals know how to handle these things. But it’s not up to your ex to decide these things, whether or not you get an anullment, become Catholic, or marry a Catholic. Did he let you pick his present sweetie? Bet not.

 

[Aesq]

Jaded27:

I know he probably wouldn’t know what exactly to say. I can just see him not cooperating AT ALL is all and I’d rather save myself the stress if at all possible. But if it’s not, then oh well. Bring on the heart attack! lol.

Try not to worry too much. I am currently in the process of seeking a nullity. When my former spouse was contacted by the tribunal she went nuts (even though she is remarried and not Catholic). She called me on the phone and ranted for twenty minutes. (the only reason I put up with it is that we have a child, in case you were wondering) She has not been too bad after the rant. It may not be as bad as you think. To actually be involved in the process takes some work. Many respondants do not participate as it takes some work. If he does not cooperate then he can not really do anything. He gets to participate or not. He will not be able to disrupt the process.

 

[otm]

A little clarity might help.

An annullment, or better, a declaration of nullity, does not declare the marriage invalid. It declares that there was not a sacramental union, and makes no findings at all as to the civil union.

In other words, if the Tribunal finds that there were grounds for finding that there was no sacramental union, it makes a finding that is only relevant to the Church, not to society in general.

Within the Church, there are two different areas of law acknowledged: civil law, which is the law of the land, and ecclesiastical law, which is the law of the Chruch. Neither group, or sphere, has authority over the other. The Church deals with Church law, and leaves the civil law to the civil courts.

When one gets married, it has implications in both civil law and Church law.

Aesq’s ex spouse may have ripped because they did not understand the essential differences between a divorce and a decree of nullity, and may have thought that the Church was going to say something about the civil aspects of the marriage.

 

[Jaded27]

Okay, well, that’s all helpful info. Thanks.
Yea, if it involves a whole questionnaire and stuff I bet he won’t bother. To answer a couple questions people asked:
Yes, I do know where he is.
No, there was no abuse.
I wasn’t the best of wives back then and I’m nervous because I know if he DOES take the time to go off on whoever questions him then I’m going to look “not so great”. I know that’s unavoidable anyway because all of it will be said by me at some point, but it sucks.

I actually took the advice given and called my fiancée’s church yesterday. I talked to the priest who’s known him for about seven years now, but I didn’t say who I was marrying. I just said that I’m a JW and my ex is too and now I’m marrying a Catholic and I want to know what I’d have to do. He was very nice about it and said he’d gladly sit down and talk with us but that he’d tell me the basics on the phone. So he did. Sounds like of the three reasons for an annulment my marriage had two of them.

1. You were forced into it (not that one)
2. You were really young (yep)
3. One refused to be open to the possibility of kids (to this day he’ll swear to me I had it all wrong and he really wanted children. Um, no. he didn’t. Trust me. At least not for a long time.)

So that puts me at ease a little bit. Now for the next problem – the priest said they tell people annulments can take a year and a half, but he said they actually take about a year if all goes smoothly.
We don’t have a DEFINITE date, but we were kind of hoping for May 27th. That is obviously not a year away. It’s nine months. I wonder if we could really push all the paperwork forward knowing that or if there is some kind of special acceptance that could be made. Probably not on the acceptance. I guess we’ll go in and talk to him, get the process started, and if it’s not done in time we’ll just have to get married by a JP or something. Which sucks, but we’ve already been together a while and wanted to get married before now but money has been an issue. Now we are finally getting things straightened out and we want to get married as soon as we can so we might have to forego all this anyway.

::sigh:: Life gets complicated at the most fun times.

 

[puzzleannie]

every situation is unique, because to give an opinion you would have to know every circumstance about the current marriage, and every previous marriage by either party (or their exes). This facts can only be uncovered adequately in a formal investigation, which is the task of the marriage tribunal of the diocese. Get your pastor, or the pastor of the nearest Catholic parish if you are not Catholic, to advise you on how to begin the proceedings. Be open, honest and complete in all the information you give him, and the people at the tribunal. Be patient, pray, wait for the judgement (which usually must be ratified by an appeals process), use the time to grow closer to the Lord and the Church. Do not set a wedding date, make definite plans or God forbid live together until and unless you receive your decree of nullity. The process takes as long as it takes, because it depends on the response of others, not just on the work of the tribunal.

 

[Jaded27]

We’re already living together. That’s why we want to get married. Circumstances a while back called for it and even though we didn’t really think it was the BEST decision, it was one that had to be made. Now we own a home together and we want tto get married soon.

So we kind of have to work around the date we’ve set. Nine months away is almost TOO long since we’ve been together a while now. That’s why I was shocked it took a year and why we might not want to wait a year.

I guess we’ll just have to see what happens with the process.

 

[MaryBeth_Mac]

Hi Jaded27,
This is a great example of how God can “work” on us through His Church. You two want something very important for all the right reasons. What God asks is that you REALLY value Marriage (becauseit looks like you gotta work for it and maybe make some sacrifices for it.) You may have up to this point had an idea of what marriage was but God may reveal to you what marriage can be in His Church. It is sacred and permanent, sacramental and open to Grace, if approached the proper way. I am a convert and I also had an annulment; in my first, though short marriage I never had a clue what marriage was all about SPIRITUALLY. Marriage leads us to perfection through our love that mirrors Christ’s love on the cross. We are self-giving and life-giving in a Catholic marriage. We hurt and hurt each other in our human weakness but Christ gives us Grace through the sacraments (including marriage) to be better spouse and better people.
Waiting will allow you two to really, deeply value your marriage once you get to that altar! Be patient-let God lay out the path.

 

[Jaded27]

I understand what you’re saying. At the same time, I am not Catholic and have no interest in becoming Catholic. The annulment is not for my sake, but so that my fiancee can get married in his church if he wants to.

Also, we are not some reckless teens who have been together two months and decided to get married. We’ve had a really long haul together through some terribly tough times. We’ve already waited quite a bit. A year is a really long time. Or rather, ANOTHER year is a really long time. Because you’re just adding that year for the annulment onto other years.

I wish there was some way to do both, but unless we really push the paperwork through or something it looks like we’ll be getting married outside the church. Ah well. We’ll sit down and talk to the priest about it anway, but I’m definitely not putting off my wedding date.

My fiancee is Catholic and has been all his life but he didnt’ know about this annulment thing because, well, why would he? He never planned to marry someone who was married before. That’s just how it happened. So he never looked into what the special permisions are and stuff. It’s not our fault that our wedding is nine months away. Rearranging plans for this just isn’t in our future. It won’t work.

But I do see what you were saying and I do thank you all for the advice.

 

[CARose]

Hi Jaded,

I glad to learn that you’re working with your fiance’ and the pastor to ensure that you submit the necessary paperwork to allow him to be married to you within the Church. Just so you know, from the perspective of the Catholic Church, if a Catholic marries outside the Church, it is not deemed a valid marriage, so sacramentally, after a civil marriage, the two of you would still be living in the same condition you are currently in. Civilly (sic?), you would have additional protections, especially as pertains to your homeownership rights, rights of survivorship, children, marital assets, etc. Most of these benefits are only a consequence in the event you break-up. The remainder (with the exception of the death tax liability) could be addressed via a will.

The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is much more than the union of your property, but that when sacramentally joined you truly become one with your spouse. To make this possible, God provides the additional grace necessary to live in such close proximity with another person. But we must be open to receiving that grace.

We really do look at marriage, when sacramentally consecrated, as it should be, as a lifelong commitment, through better or worse. And many of us know that it truly can be WORSE, sometimes before it then becomes much better.

I can understand that you may be frustrated with the delays that this Church you don’t even believe in is placing before you and your loved one. Please know it is because of the importance placed on what you are about to do. You are preparing to commit the rest of your life to another, frail, fallable, humble human being. You are offering in return yourself, another imperfect person. The two of you are committing to spending the rest of your lives working to care for the other, regardless of the circumstances you encounter.

This, when fully considered, is an incredible endeavor, one which deserves your utmost care and consideration. It is not meant to be entered into simply because the circumstances called for it. It is a forward looking commitment, where you desire only that which is best for your future spouse and anticipate the same from him.

This delay can be used to assist you in discerning for certain that you are taking this step for all the right reasons, and not only because it “feels right for now”.

I would like to recommend that during the time while you are waiting for a response from the tribunal, that you participate in the Pre-Cana (before wedding) classes, which can be fulfilled in a weekend retreat known I believe as Engaged Encounter. In this program, they will assist you in exploring with your fiance’ what your preconceived expectations of a marriage are and assure that the two of you are on the same page in a broad range of issues. It is far better that you know this now, rather than wait until after you have children to find that you really aren’t well suited for the long term.

I wish you all the best. God Bless,

CARose

 

[Jaded27]

CARose:

We really do look at marriage, when sacramentally consecrated, as it should be, as a lifelong commitment, through better or worse. And many of us know that it truly can be WORSE, sometimes before it then becomes much better.

oh yea. I definitely know about the “worse”!

CARose:

I can understand that you may be frustrated with the delays that this Church you don’t even believe in is placing before you and your loved one. Please know it is because of the importance placed on what you are about to do.

I do understand the importance, yes. You’re right there. I’m not frustrated per say, just wondering why it takes so long if you have all your paperwork and witnesses in order and stuff. Also, if you are going through marriage for the first time I’m pretty sure they don’t make you wait a year just for the heck of it. Nope. If you were dating for a sufficient amount of time they’d approve you getting married no problem. Just because I’ve done it before doesn’t mean I need an extra year to reflect. That just doesn’t make sense. So I understand what you’re trying to say, but if that extra year isn’t enforced on ALL couples then I can’t really view it as time that I NEED before I’m ready to get married.

CARose:

This delay can be used to assist you in discerning for certain that you are taking this step for all the right reasons, and not only because it “feels right for now”.

As I said though, this isn’t a “right now” sort of situation. We’ve been together a while and had plenty of time to think about this huge decision.

I would like to recommend that during the time while you are waiting for a response from the tribunal, that you participate in the Pre-Cana (before wedding) classes, which can be fulfilled in a weekend retreat known I believe as Engaged Encounter. In this program, they will assist you in exploring with your fiance’ what your preconceived expectations of a marriage are and assure that the two of you are on the same page in a broad range of issues. It is far better that you know this now, rather than wait until after you have children to find that you really aren’t well suited for the long term.

That sounds great, but we actually already do that in couples therapy together. I go by myself due to other reasons and twice a month we go together. Our therapist actually said she’s never seen two people who are so committed to each other after all we’ve been through and after not THAT long a time.

As for the whole tribunal thing. . . . Say that we decide it’s going to take too long and we don’t want to change our wedding date. Just go with me on this for a moment. If we get married anyway but still keep working on my annulment, does that mean we could have the marriage approved eventually? post marriage? They must do that on some level. What if you get married in Vegas or something? There’s got to be a way to “approve” it after the fact when all your affairs are in order, right? Can anyone help me on that?

Just so that my fiancee will be in good standing in his church and whatnot at least after all the paperwork goes through.

 

[axolotl]

Jaded27:

If we get married anyway but still keep working on my annulment, does that mean we could have the marriage approved eventually? post marriage? They must do that on some level. What if you get married in Vegas or something? There’s got to be a way to “approve” it after the fact when all your affairs are in order, right? Can anyone help me on that?

Just so that my fiancee will be in good standing in his church and whatnot at least after all the paperwork goes through.

Yes. It’s called convalidation. But between the civil wedding and the convalidation, your husband will be cut off from the sacraments. I know you have waited along time, and been through a lot, but continued perseverence might make the end all the more rewarding. Not trying to sound trite.

 

[Jaded27]

You don’t sound trite. Thanks for the answer. I’ll keep it all in mind.