Catholic Apologetic Site for Filipinos

[jaaraf]

Happy New Year! Maayong BAg-ong Tuig sa mga Bisdak! If there are any female college students in Cebu City who are interested in volunteering to teach catechism (a great way to preserve the faith! ) or conduct academic tutorials for a group of less-priveledged grade school girls, do pm me!

 

[kat_holos]

Sometime in October 2007, there were bloggers who posted their comments regarding the Christian Community Bible, first they questioned the accuracy of that Translation, second, they question its orthodoxy of its commentaries, third, they question the CBCP’s authority to approve its usage by Catholic faithful (through the imprimatur). I would like to make some comments from what they’ve said. First, I would like to tell everyone that the Christian Community Bible is translated from Greek and Hebrew with great accuracy. It has been studied by the CBCP’s Episcopal Commission on Biblical Apostolate (ECBA). The ECBA is not just composed of bishops but also of other Catholic bible scholars (who are by the way one of the best in the world) who are there to assists our bishops. So there is no harm in reading the Christian Community Bible. If you think there are some inaccurate or wrong translation in that Bible, send it to me by posting it here or you can write Fr. Francis at bible@csi.com.ph. Second, the commentaries are not written by catholic and protestants or evangelicals, it was written by a catholic priest, Fr. Bernardo Hurault. This new translation of the Bible was Fr. Hurault’s initiative. The Christian Community Bible was born in 1960 in Chile when Rev. Bernardo Hurault decided that a Bible that can be understood by ordinary poor people is needed, and that this Bible should include commentaries to help its readers understand it. He began translating from Hebrew and Greek to Spanish, incorporating his own homilies and questions from his own congregation as commentaries. The finished translation, known as the Biblia Latinoaméricana, was published in 1971. Since then, he has devoted his whole life to this work. The English translation was born in 1986 when Rev. Alberto Rossa, a Claretian missionary in the Philippines, saw the need for an English version of the Biblia Latinoaméricana. Translation was finished in 18 months, and the finished translation was published in 1988 under the name Christian Community Bible. I have read the commentaries many times and I have found it very Catholic, there are nothing in the commentaries that run against the Catholic faith. If there is, please inform us. Third, it is true that the CBCP is not infallible, but let us remember that they were also given the authority to teach and has the guidance of the Holy Spirit as pastors of particular churches. Besides, the Vatican has not censored the publication of the Christian Community Bible, as far as I know, the Vatican knows this Bible as well. If the Vatican has not censored it, it means its okey for catholics to read it. And finally, the Bible is not intended for liturgical use, its more of for pastoral and personal use. As far as I know, we still use the Vulgate for our Liturgies.

Before I leave, I am inviting everyone to buy “KNOW THE TRUTH” magazine. Please buy extra magazines and share it to other people. We can now at least compete with the Iglesia ni Cristo with their Pasugo and with other non-catholic magazines such as Watch Tower magazines of JW etc.

 

[arvinsim]

Finally! Some fears and doubts of mine about CCB are laid to rest!

 

[maljr2001]

Masantos ya labi ed sikayo! wala ray taga pangasinan ja?

(Good evening! Are there people here from Pangasinan?)

I’m glad Filipinos have a special thread here.

One thing that I notice in my own hometown is that our separated brethrens (protestants) seems to be focusing their evangelization in the barrios, or places that are far from the city proper where the Catholic Church is. The poor especially, since they barely have money for transportation fares, are lured to going to these protestant services. I am concerned since I learned that some of my friends and relatives are already converting.

 

[MarieW]

Masantos ya labi ed sikayo! wala ray taga pangasinan ja?

(Good evening! Are there people here from Pangasinan?)

I’m glad Filipinos have a special thread here.

One thing that I notice in my own hometown is that our separated brethrens (protestants) seems to be focusing their evangelization in the barrios, or places that are far from the city proper where the Catholic Church is. The poor especially, since they barely have money for transportation fares, are lured to going to these protestant services. I am concerned since I learned that some of my friends and relatives are already converting.

For me what I noticed is a lot of filipino celebrities espcially the younger ones are converting by the dozens to JIL, it’s kinda like the “in” thing to do in other words Na Barkada:shrug:

 

[Carlos_Palad]

Dear kat_holos;

If you will read my OP (# 238 in this thread) I made it clear that the CCB commentary contains much that is good and useful. My objections are to certain passages in it that seem incompatible with Catholic orthodoxy or, at least, do not seem appropriate to be in a Catholic bible. I already quoted some of these strange passages, and these are not the only ones. The OP has nothing to do with the translation itself, and in no way has anybody in this discussion denied the authority of the CBCP. It was only pointed out that CBCP is not infallible – which means that Catholics have the right to criticize its decisions or instructions, when said criticisms have a clear and objective basis. To criticize the decisions made by an institution does not necessarily imply denial of that institution’s authority.

I beg you to take part in this debate, not by exaggerating or radicalizing the claims made by your interlocutors, but by dealing with their actual claims. Instead of invoking authority in order to stop the debate, please show me how the paragraphs I quoted (as well as those quoted by Patrick) can in any way be fit to print in a Catholic Bible, containing as they do historical inaccuracies and imprudent criticisms that can easily scandalize many Christians. There are other passages in the commentaries that are also questionable. I repeat: we are speaking here of the commentary, not the translation itself. At least, the CCB translation of kecharitomene is “full of grace” rather than “highly favored one”! That is a not insignificant consolation.

As for the Vatican not scrutinizing the CCB, I answer that this is because the CCB is meant for private and pastoral use and not for liturgical or catechetical use. As a rule, the Holy See is very strict with Bible translations only when these are going to be used for the lectionary or for Bible quotes in translations of the documents of the Magisterium. Perhaps you remember that the Holy See has thumbed down the use of certain Bible translations (the RNAB and NRSV come to mind) for the lectionary, or at least ordered that revised versions of these translations be used for the lectionary, precisely because of objectionable elements in the translations. Nevertheless, neither the RNAB nor the NRSV have been banned for pastoral or private use. I myself have had copies of both. I would be very interested to see what would happen should the CBCP decide to ask the Congregation for Divine Worship to approve a lectionary using the CCB translation.

Regarding the Vulgata: the Roman Rite makes use of the Nova Vulgata in the editio typica of the 1970 / 2002 Missal, and the Vetus Vulgata (with fragments of the Itala) in the editio typica of the Missal of 1570 / 1962. However, the English translations of the Vetus Vulgata (Douay-Rheims, Confraternity) are nowhere used in any lectionaries identified with the 1970 Missal, and are utilized only for the translations of the 1962 Missal readings (which in Tridentine Masses are read prior to the sermon and after the proclamation of the Gospel in Latin). For English lectionaries for the 1970 Missal, a wide variety of Bibles is used depending on the lectionary and the Episcopal conference approving it. Bibles used are the RNAB, RSV (Catholic Edition), NRSV, JB and NJB.

 

[Carlos_Palad]

Permit me to go a bit off-topic.

I think that there is also another reason why the CCB – and, for that matter, most of the documents and papers put out or endorsed by Church institutions in the Philippines – have remained un-scrutinized by the Holy See. Unlike in the West, there is no vigilant, militant “conservative” Catholic laity in the Philippines, ever on the look out for the slightest deviations from the Magisterium and the doctrinal, liturgical and spiritual traditions of the Church, and unafraid of liberal clerics. In the West, notably in the USA and the UK, this militant laity has created an entire sphere of TV channels or networks (think EWTN), newspapers and journals, more than a thousand radio stations and programs, countless websites and – more recently – thousands of bloggers, dedicated to defending the faith against liberalism in the Church. It is this network that, since its beginnings in the 1960’s has relentlessly denounced to the Holy See, erroneous Biblical and liturgical translations, watered-down catechesis, pastoral statements of doubtful value, heretical theologies, liturgical abuses, acts of clerical compromise with the spirit of the world etc. assisting the Holy See in eventually catalyzing the qualitative renewal of Catholic orthodoxy and identity in the Western Church which we have been witnessing since the last years of John Paul II and now under Pope Benedict XVI. (For the Holy See to take action, it has to be continually informed and constantly beseeched to act. That is the way things are.) Unfortunately, we have nothing similar in our country, given that our laity is generally quiet and submissive to whatever the clergy says and whatever the local Catholic institutions do.

Nevertheless, I think I’m seeing the beginnings of a militantly orthodox Filipino Catholic laity, as more Ignatius and Sophia Press books enter the country (in addition to the long-present TAN, Sinag-Tala and Scepter books) and as more Filipino Catholics watch EWTN (especially its reverent, beautiful and rubrical daily Mass, so far removed from what the Mass is like in Filipino parishes) and surf orthodox Catholic websites. All of these is making a growing number of Filipino Catholics realize that all is not well in Philippine Catholicism, with its “everything-is-ok-we-are-the-best-local-church-in-the-world-we-are-saving-the-church-in-the-West” mentality, its shabby and butchered liturgies, one-sided libraries (all Rahner, no Balthasar, you get what I mean?), untrained lay preachers, political proclivities, parochial interests and its stuck-in-the-70’s-and-80’s ethos. It is also no secret that Joseph Ratzinger a.k.a the Pope is aware of the liberalism that has infected the Philippine Church, him having named (when still a cardinal) the Philippines as a bastion of liberation theology, having quietly condemned the works of at least two Filipino theologians (according to the testimony of a retired Filipino Archbishop) and now, observing a limit of only three cardinals for our country – which says something about our real stature.

 

[006038]

Ok thanks flewen!!

wala gyud branch danhi sa CDO?? chada unta kung naa

Brad naa may Catholic Faith Defender sa Cagayan de Oro… sa Xavier ko nag school mao nang sweto ko diha CDO.
Brad C Zaldy Ocon Catholic Faith Defender na xa…asta pud c Atty. Mike Abas

Regards,
G-one

 

[ladygenesis]

Masantos ya labi ed sikayo! wala ray taga pangasinan ja?

(Good evening! Are there people here from Pangasinan?)

I’m glad Filipinos have a special thread here.

One thing that I notice in my own hometown is that our separated brethrens (protestants) seems to be focusing their evangelization in the barrios, or places that are far from the city proper where the Catholic Church is. The poor especially, since they barely have money for transportation fares, are lured to going to these protestant services. I am concerned since I learned that some of my friends and relatives are already converting.

I am not from Pangasinan,but I have several friends from there.I foresee that 2 decades from now,Catholics will be in the minority.This has been the assumption of a Fil Baptist Minister in Cubao.The CBCP is sleeping on the job.I guess it is about time,that we become the minority,so that we will experience how it is to be one!BTW,my friends barriofolks are now Born Again Christians,including all his clan.Those Non Catholic Ministers are also providing free meals to uncatechized ex Catholics,even in the heartland of Manaoag,as another friend stated!

 

[kat_holos]

There are 3 types of 20th century Catholics; the conservatives, the liberals, and the moderates. The conservatives are people who wish to return the Church to pre-Vatican II status. Conservatives believe that the Church was never in peril, never had any shortcomings, and is all holy (forgetting that it too has a human aspect aside from its being holy and divine). In that way conservative Catholics denies the need for renewal in the Church. These are people who believe that non-Catholics are incapable of speaking the truth. They abhor anything that is non-catholic even up to the point of extremism. They hate ecumenism. On the other hand, they serve as guardians of the purity of our faith. The example of this group is the Lefavbre break away group of Society of Pius X. Now, the liberals. Liberals are people who wants the Church to become more relevant to our present times. They want the Church to become present in the lives of every Catholic and to make the teachings of the Church become relevant and practical in the day to day life of every Catholics. The problem with this type of Catholics is, most of them try to “re-invent the wheel” and tries to accommodate even the most unorthodox teachings in an attempt to give solutions to our present day problems. These are people who are very radical in their approach to bring the faith to modern man. Examples of Liberals are the proponents of Liberal Theology. The moderates are the Catholics who sees that if the Church fails to renew, it will die. On the other hand, they want to keep the essentials of the Church and make it more relevant to the present times. They see the need for unity, but they never impose what they want, what they do is to let the truth convince those who are on the other camp through dialogue. These are people who never denies the errors committed in the past because of the Church inherent weakness, in doing so, they open themselves to the Renewing Power of the Holy Spirit who constantly renews the “face of the earth”.
Now with regards to the commentaries in the Christian Community Bible, I’d like to give my comments on blog #238. But first, I’d like to express my greatest appreciation for its author for his being vigilant in his faith. The blogger had some points which we would like to answer;

1. “I know for a fact that evangelicals participated in this translation and in the writing of some of the notes, and some of the notes can only be described as below-the-belt attacks on the Catholic Church.”
2. The introduction to Romans is particularly perverse. It has a reproduction of a medieval engraving of a papal Mass juxtaposed with a picture of a man carrying a wounded person, accompanied by a commentary that denounces the medieval Catholic Church in an utterly inaccurate manner, even attributing to the medieval Catholic Church the belief in salvation by works (an odious lie.) The medieval Church is even described as “looking at itself instead of turning towards God… a Church whose whole system --political, doctrinal and repressive, blocked the horizon.”
3. In the CCB commentary on Rev 18, the following bewildering statement is made: “The plan of salvation however, is constantly in danger: the greatest obstacles and delays often come from the Church herself, so often blind to the demands of the Gospel while she intends to conquer the world. Why these heavy and alienating structures which finally make the Church a benefit mainly for the clerics and learned people while closing it to the poor or to the masses?”

On the first statement, earlier we have already said that the CCB is not a product of a collaboration between Catholics and Protestants, this is solely a Catholic opus.
On the second statement, the engraving only shows the Eucharist as both a Liturgy and at the same time a mission. The Bishop leads the liturgy of the Eucharist and at the same time shows a missionary (with a cross necklace) carry a wounded person. It only shows us that the Eucharist doesn’t stop from being just a ritual or a ceremony of Jesus’ sacrifice but that this sacrifice of the Eucharist is made alive in the lives of those who heed the call of Jesus to the life of service. (Next blog please)

 

[kat_holos]

On the statement that says that the engraving is “accompanied by a commentary that denounces the medieval Catholic Church in an utterly inaccurate manner, even attributing to the medieval Catholic Church the belief in salvation by works (an odious lie.) The medieval Church is even described as “looking at itself instead of turning towards God… a Church whose whole system --political, doctrinal and repressive, blocked the horizon.” With regards to the Medieval Church, we really could not deny that the Church in the medieval times experienced a crisis. It was very obvious that the Church at that time was in badly need of renewal which was answered by the Counter-Reformation. Although, it is true that the renewal of the Church, even prior to the Reformation, was all over Europe and that it was heeding towards Rome, the problem brought by the Western Schism and its offshoot result of Conciliarism made some members of the Curia and the College of Cardinals resistant to change and even made them defy the Pope. Because of this, the renewal of the Church was hampered. Interest in theology fell during that time…we have to admit it, although there was a growing interest in monastic life, still it didn’t tell us that the Church was okey at that time. In fact the growing interest in monasticism and mysticism was a sign of hunger for a deeper religious experience which was hardly available outside the walls of monasteries. Fr. Hurault’s commentary in CCB only reflects this truth without belittling the Medieval Church which produced great Catholic reformers like St. Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Ignatius of Loyola etc.
The commentaries on Revelation 18 showed no anti-Catholic ideas. I see no problem on Fr. Hurault’s comments which reads “The plan of salvation however, is constantly in danger: the greatest obstacles and delays often come from the Church herself, so often blind to the demands of the Gospel while she intends to conquer the world. Why these heavy and alienating structures which finally make the Church a benefit mainly for the clerics and learned people while closing it to the poor or to the masses?” Are you aware of the problem of the Church in Latin America? Are you aware that some of its bishops before allied themselves with some of the fascist leaders of the territories they administered? And some of these leaders were noted to be violators of human rights. Are you also aware that there were some members of the Curia and some lay Catholics who opposed the reforms of the Second Vatican Council up to the point of preventing the full implementation of its resolutions? The Charismatics and Cardinal Suinins were under a close watch by some Vatican officials who are afraid of the Laity becoming active in the leadership in the Church, in spite of the Vatican II’s position of empower the laity in the Church. The bureaucracy in the Church, although is innately good and serves to put order in the Church, sometimes suffocates the Church once it resists change. The too much focus on the “clergy as the only people authorized to preach the Gospel” made the laity timid in proclaiming the Gospel – we failed to become a missionary Church, where all Church members are suppose to actively live the Gospel and share its message to others. This is the reason why we are experiencing problems in Latin America, were there is a massive exodus of catholics to some sects and denominations. Fr. Hurault has foreseen this problem in his comments on Mark 9:38, he wrote, “The evangelization outside the Church, at times against the Church, offers a challenge. If others evangelize, it is perhaps because the Church does not reach a great number of people: God wants others to do what we do not. The proliferation of separate churches is for the Catholic Church a call to reform.” He even added, “For the Church finds itself paralyzed for want of a true spirit of poverty and because of its massive structures which no longer allow simple people to find there the fresh life-giving air of the Gospel”. Is it not true that a small and simple sect is able to easily succeed in converting catholics to their fold is because of the simplicity and flexibility of their organization to adapt to the community they are in? They easily blend with the community and the community is able to identify themselves with this groups. While the massive hierarchy of the Church with its rigid bureaucracy prevents it from being flexible. Its alliances with the rich and those in power alienates the poor who constitute the majority in the Church, it even scandalizes the skeptics and the critics of the Church – adding to the very poor image of the Church. (Next blog please)

 

[kat_holos]

And about the “conquering the world” thing – are we not a kingdom of Jesus which aims to conquer the world? Really, there is nothing wrong if we conquer the world for Christ, it only means that we’ve already evangelize the whole world and has already established God’s Kingdom on earth, not by force, coercion, or through some conspiracy as opposed to what is being thought by Adventists and INC pastors.
On conclusion, I find the Christian Community Bible a very valuable asset of the Church. Reading its commentaries is inspiring and enlightening. It challenges its readers to try a life of mission and brings renewal to those who seek its guidance. It is also a valuable tool to evangelize non-Catholics because it presents the Catholic Church and its teachings in a way that will be easily understood by all. It is a work of a moderate catholic.

 

[kat_holos]

It is true that we really need to improve our Apologetics here in the Philippines that is why I am asking everyone to write a petition to CBCP to act on this matter before we become the minority religion in the Philippines. I’ve already wrote a petition to the CBCP about starting a TV station dedicated in propagation of faith and which has a strong emphasis on Apologetics…I thought it was answered when the Archdiocese started the TV Maria, but to my disappointment, it was only available in cable TV. I am calling every Filipino who reads this blog to please ask our bishops to start a TV station on UHF channel.

 

[janryboy]

It is true that we really need to improve our Apologetics here in the Philippines that is why I am asking everyone to write a petition to CBCP to act on this matter before we become the minority religion in the Philippines. I’ve already wrote a petition to the CBCP about starting a TV station dedicated in propagation of faith and which has a strong emphasis on Apologetics…I thought it was answered when the Archdiocese started the TV Maria, but to my disappointment, it was only available in cable TV. I am calling every Filipino who reads this blog to please ask our bishops to start a TV station on UHF channel.

how bout a signature campaign?

do CBCP has website? emial add? can we just send them an e-Letter?

 

[maljr2001]

how bout a signature campaign?

do CBCP has website? emial add? can we just send them an e-Letter?

Hi janry, I googled their website and I found this:

cbcponline.net/

 

[maljr2001]

It is true that we really need to improve our Apologetics here in the Philippines that is why I am asking everyone to write a petition to CBCP to act on this matter before we become the minority religion in the Philippines. I’ve already wrote a petition to the CBCP about starting a TV station dedicated in propagation of faith and which has a strong emphasis on Apologetics…I thought it was answered when the Archdiocese started the TV Maria, but to my disappointment, it was only available in cable TV. I am calling every Filipino who reads this blog to please ask our bishops to start a TV station on UHF channel.

Good suggestion! But the the problem is, as always, money. It would take them (IMO) millions to start a TV station on UHF channel, and I dont think CBCP has the resources or is willing to do this. Perhaps, a more possible way is to make funds independent of the church, as it is being done in the U.S.

 

[arvinsim]

Before I leave, I am inviting everyone to buy “KNOW THE TRUTH” magazine. Please buy extra magazines and share it to other people. We can now at least compete with the Iglesia ni Cristo with their Pasugo and with other non-catholic magazines such as Watch Tower magazines of JW etc.

I would recommend the magazine. It is well written and very apologetic IMO

 

[arvinsim]

Ei guyz, why is it hard to find good catholic books? I was lloking for books by G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis and Peter Kreeft books and many,many others but I am hard pressed to find them in bookstores in our area.

I live in the city of Cagayan de Oro in mindanao btw.

 

[Carlos_Palad]

Ei guyz, why is it hard to find good catholic books? I was lloking for books by G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis and Peter Kreeft books and many,many others but I am hard pressed to find them in bookstores in our area.

I live in the city of Cagayan de Oro in mindanao btw.

If I’m not mistaken, there is a used books store on the road to the CDO airport. It often contains old but still valuable Catholic books for sale; years ago, one of my friends bought an entire set of the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia in it.

Here in Metro Manila, there is Totus Bookstore at the back of Greenhills, located at Red Ribbon Bldg, Connecticut Street (723-43-26), which is the Philippines’ largest distributor of Ignatius and Sophia Press books. Ignatius is, of course, the main English language publisher of the works of Joseph Ratzinger, Henri De Lubac, Hans Urs von Balthasar, G.K. Chesterton, Peter Kreeft, as well as some books on CS Lewis. It is also the “flagship” of Defensores Fidei Foundation and the main Saturday tambayan of our little apologetics group for young people.

 

[arvinsim]

If I’m not mistaken, there is a used books store on the road to the CDO airport. It often contains old but still valuable Catholic books for sale; years ago, one of my friends bought an entire set of the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia in it.

Here in Metro Manila, there is Totus Bookstore at the back of Greenhills, located at Red Ribbon Bldg, Connecticut Street (723-43-26), which is the Philippines’ largest distributor of Ignatius and Sophia Press books. Ignatius is, of course, the main English language publisher of the works of Joseph Ratzinger, Henri De Lubac, Hans Urs von Balthasar, G.K. Chesterton, Peter Kreeft, as well as some books on CS Lewis. It is also the “flagship” of Defensores Fidei Foundation and the main Saturday tambayan of our little apologetics group for young people

Thanks for the reply!

I’ll try to check out the bookstore on the road to the CDO airport.

Hmmm does Totus bookstore accpet provincial orders?

When I went to Mambajao,Camiguin for the Christmans Vacationm, I was suprised since I found almost ALL the Catholic books I was looking for in a reading center near my grandmother’s parish. I asked where they get their books from and they said that they got it from Manila.

Sigh I wish bookstores would put more Catholic books.