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- Status
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natsclem
Guest
what is deceiving in this entity is that it mimic things Catholic–from the name Catholic to our treasured devotion, the rosary.
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hagia_sophia
Guest
yeah and the modern Arians?
the Iglesia ni Cristo!
the Iglesia ni Cristo!
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natsclem
Guest
Brethren, why don’t we bombard the site through its email addresses with:
Jesus Christ, the Passover Lamb, Lord of lords and King of kings, is both God and man. (John 1:1-18, 1 Timothy 6:15, Psalms 136:1 – 3, Revelation 17:14, 1 Corinthians 5:7 Revelation 1:5, and Hebrews 4:14-15)
falsehood can only be destroyed by truth. let’s do it to other groups that deny the perfect unity of the perfect divine nature and the perfect human nature of Christ in His person through their email addresses. Repetition of truth can effectively destroy the seed of falsehood in the minds and hearts of these people. Let’s just pray that the Holy Spirit make them good grounds only in which can the seed of Truth live and take root and bear fruit (Luke 8:4-21).
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ssejllenrad
Guest
I’m with you on this. A good source of Scriptural bombardment besides this site would be John Salza’s own apologetics site scripturecatholic.com/
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Posts have been edited due to the inclusion of a suggestion for other forum readers/members to visit someone else’s website for the purposes of refutation and Board swarming.
In an effort to illuminate and explain the Catholic faith, CAF makes every effort to provide our participants with a pleasant and informative place on the internet where Catholics and non-Catholics may gather.
It is our hope that respectful dialogue and discussion will lead to better faith understandings. And so in charity, we ask that our forums not be used for encouraging mass visits to other websites. In the past these kinds of efforts, although perhaps well intentioned, leave participants at other websites with negative impressions.
Your cooperation in helping promote these aims of faith exposition, hope for fruitful discussion and charity in implementation are sincerely appreciated.
Sincerely,
Michael Francis
Apologetics Moderator
In an effort to illuminate and explain the Catholic faith, CAF makes every effort to provide our participants with a pleasant and informative place on the internet where Catholics and non-Catholics may gather.
It is our hope that respectful dialogue and discussion will lead to better faith understandings. And so in charity, we ask that our forums not be used for encouraging mass visits to other websites. In the past these kinds of efforts, although perhaps well intentioned, leave participants at other websites with negative impressions.
Your cooperation in helping promote these aims of faith exposition, hope for fruitful discussion and charity in implementation are sincerely appreciated.
Sincerely,
Michael Francis
Apologetics Moderator
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iamACE
Guest
Filipino here. I want to learn how to debate with them effectively and make them come to their senses. As I watch NET25, their TV Station, it makes me sick every time they preach their wrongs teachings especially when they say that Jesus isn’t God!
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jeslyfirefox
Guest
U SAID IT IS ONLY A VENERATION AS WHAT CLAIMED BY UR CHURCH DEFENDER… UR NOT WORSHIPPIN IT. BUT IN ESSENCE IT GOES LIKE THAT INDIRECTLY… ITS A HYPOCRISY TO SAY THAT… EVEN UR PRIEST U CAN READ IT BY CARDINAL JAMESS GIBBONS READ IT…HOW COME A TRUE CHURCH CAME FROM ITALY?? WHERE A PAGAN EMPEROR CAME FROM. WHERE THE ROMANS PERSECUTED CHRIST.ITS AN INSULTING TO OUR LORD GOD.
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patrick457
Guest
Jeslyfirefox, a word of advice:
Do not post in all caps as it is very hard to read, plus others might mistake your post as spamming.
I think it’s not insulting to the Lord, but glorifies Him. I mean, yes the Roman Empire was pagan, and yet Christianity defeated paganism and triumphed over it. How can that be insulting to God, to have His Church prevail over the darkness of paganism?
Yes, Rome was pagan, but just because the Church came from Rome does not make it pagan. A monkey is still a monkey even if you make it wear human clothes.
Do not post in all caps as it is very hard to read, plus others might mistake your post as spamming.
‘In essence’? Like how?
Hypocrisy to say what? I’m afraid I can’t understand your arguments here clearly. Would you mind reposting them in a clearer form and then we can answer them one by one?
Last time I checked, Jesus never went to Rome, so perhaps you meant ‘Where the Romans persecuted Christians’.
I think it’s not insulting to the Lord, but glorifies Him. I mean, yes the Roman Empire was pagan, and yet Christianity defeated paganism and triumphed over it. How can that be insulting to God, to have His Church prevail over the darkness of paganism?
Yes, Rome was pagan, but just because the Church came from Rome does not make it pagan. A monkey is still a monkey even if you make it wear human clothes.
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jpaul
Guest
Peace and all-good!
The church founded by Mr. Felix Manalo can only be rightly called “Iglesia Ni Manalo”.
It does not deserved the name “Iglesia Ni Cristo”.
jpaul
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iamACE
Guest
Hello Filipinos, please help me find some threads here that discusses that Mary is indeed in Heaven…
I’m having a debate with an INC member
Maraming Salamat po!
Here’s my opponent’s statement (Some are in Filipino):
*eh wala nga sa bible yang mga pinagsasabi mo eh. si maria ay wala pa sa langit, si maria ay nirerespeto dahil siya ang nagdala at nagsilang kay Kristo but she is not worthy of our worship and she cannot hear our prayers. The Bible nowhere indicates that anyone other than God is to be worshipped or revered. The Bible nowhere indicates that anyone other than God can hear or answer our prayers. Jesus is our only advocate in Heaven
1 Timothy 2:5
Ito ay sapagkat may iisang Diyos at iisang Tagapamagitan sa pagitan ng Diyos at ng mga tao. Siya ay ang taong si Cristo Jesus.
If Mary were to speak to us today from heaven, she would say the same as the angels do when people try to worship them “Worship God!”
Pahayag 19:10 (Revelations)
At ako ay nagpatirapa sa harapan ng kaniyang mg paa upang sambahin siya. At sinabi niya: Huwag mong gawin iyan. Ako ay kapwa mo alipin at kapatid mong lalaki na taglay ang patotoo ni Jesus. Sambahin mo ang Diyos sapagkat ang patotoo tungkol kay Jesus ay ang espiritu ng paghahayag—
Pahayag 22:9
Sinabi niya sa akin: Huwag mong gawin ito sapagkat ako ay iyong kapwa alipin at gayundin ang iyong mga kapatid na lalaki na mga propeta at sa mga tumutupad ng mga salita sa aklat na ito. Ang Diyos ang sambahin mo.
Jesus’ mother Mary is never described as having any kind of exalted position in Heaven. The Bible does not record Mary’s death. In fact, Mary is never even mentioned after Acts chapter 1, verse 14. Mary was a godly women through whom God chose to bring forth His beloved Son (Luke 1:26-38). The Bible gives us no reason to believe, though, that Mary was sinless or is now exalted to heaven.
magbigay kayo ng verse sa bible na si maria ay umakyat sa langit, babalik ako sa pagiging katoliko.
(Give me a verse in the Bible or proof that Mary is indeed in Heaven and I’ll become Catholic again.)
I’m having a debate with an INC member
Maraming Salamat po!
Here’s my opponent’s statement (Some are in Filipino):
*eh wala nga sa bible yang mga pinagsasabi mo eh. si maria ay wala pa sa langit, si maria ay nirerespeto dahil siya ang nagdala at nagsilang kay Kristo but she is not worthy of our worship and she cannot hear our prayers. The Bible nowhere indicates that anyone other than God is to be worshipped or revered. The Bible nowhere indicates that anyone other than God can hear or answer our prayers. Jesus is our only advocate in Heaven
1 Timothy 2:5
Ito ay sapagkat may iisang Diyos at iisang Tagapamagitan sa pagitan ng Diyos at ng mga tao. Siya ay ang taong si Cristo Jesus.
If Mary were to speak to us today from heaven, she would say the same as the angels do when people try to worship them “Worship God!”
Pahayag 19:10 (Revelations)
At ako ay nagpatirapa sa harapan ng kaniyang mg paa upang sambahin siya. At sinabi niya: Huwag mong gawin iyan. Ako ay kapwa mo alipin at kapatid mong lalaki na taglay ang patotoo ni Jesus. Sambahin mo ang Diyos sapagkat ang patotoo tungkol kay Jesus ay ang espiritu ng paghahayag—
Pahayag 22:9
Sinabi niya sa akin: Huwag mong gawin ito sapagkat ako ay iyong kapwa alipin at gayundin ang iyong mga kapatid na lalaki na mga propeta at sa mga tumutupad ng mga salita sa aklat na ito. Ang Diyos ang sambahin mo.
Jesus’ mother Mary is never described as having any kind of exalted position in Heaven. The Bible does not record Mary’s death. In fact, Mary is never even mentioned after Acts chapter 1, verse 14. Mary was a godly women through whom God chose to bring forth His beloved Son (Luke 1:26-38). The Bible gives us no reason to believe, though, that Mary was sinless or is now exalted to heaven.
magbigay kayo ng verse sa bible na si maria ay umakyat sa langit, babalik ako sa pagiging katoliko.
(Give me a verse in the Bible or proof that Mary is indeed in Heaven and I’ll become Catholic again.)
P
patrick457
Guest
Hello Filipinos, please help me find some threads here that discusses that Mary is indeed in Heaven…
I’m having a debate with an INC member
Maraming Salamat po!
Here’s my opponent’s statement (Some are in Filipino):
I
iamACE
Guest
Salamat po Patrick!
It is useful but as usual, ayaw magpatalo. Here’s he’s answer…
Check the Forum that we’re in to…
symbianize.com/showthread.php?p=381688#post381688
It is useful but as usual, ayaw magpatalo. Here’s he’s answer…
Code:
*nope, di pwede kasi sinabi nga ni kristo na siya lang ang tanging paraan para makarating ka sa langit. sa kaniya lang, eh bakit katakut-takot na dasal ang ginagawa niyo dun sa mga tao o santo sa inyo, eh kahit nga apostol wala pa sa langit.
Really? Wala pang Propeta o Kahit Apostol na nasa langit?
So, nagsinungaling si Christ when He said this to the thief?
di sinungaling si kristo, totoo yung sinabi niya na isasama niya yung kasama niyang napako pero sa paraiso hindi sa langit. ang pangakong paraiso ay makikita pa lamang sa pagbabalik ni Jesus, pgkatapos mahusgahan lahat ng mga tao sa mundo. ni hindi nga nakita ni juan yung taong yun nung nanaginip siiya eh.
king james version
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Ang salita ng diyos
43Sinabi ni Jesus sa kaniya: Katotohanang sinasabi ko sa iyo, sa araw na ito, ikaw ay makakasama ko sa Paraiso.
So, nagdarasal pa rin ang mga BANAL, SANTO o KAHIT SI MARIA.
Huwag mong sabihin na nasa Impyerno ang mga BANAL?
whoops, wala akong sinabing nasa impyerno ang mga banal, ikaw ang may sabi niyan. wag ka sana magtype dito ng wala akong sinasabi, direct accusation yan. yung pahayag 5:8 hindi naman sinabi na nananalangin ang mga banal, ang sabi na siyang panalangin ng mga banal.
pahayag 5:8-10 ang salita ng diyos bible
8Nang kunin niya ang balumbon, ang apat na buhay na nilalang at ang dalawampu't apat na mga matanda ay may mga alpa at mga gintong mangkok na pinuno ng kamangyan na ito ang mga panalangin ng mga banal. 9At sila ay umawit ng bagong awit. Sinabi nila:
Ikaw ay karapat-dapat kumuha ng balumbon at magbukas
ng selyo nito. Dahil pinatay ka nila at tinubos mo kami
para sa Diyos ng iyong dugo, sa bawat lipi at wika, mga
tao at bansa. 10Ginawa mo kaming mga hari at mga
saserdote para sa aming Diyos. At kami ay maghahari sa
ibabaw ng lupa.
King James Version
8And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints
ang sabi 24 elders and the four beast, apat na buhay na nilalang at 24 na matatanda eh di naman sinabing may mga banal na tao dun, di naman na kasama ang mga tao dun. yung 24 na matatanda ay mga banal nuong una pa man, wala pa ang lupa kasama na sila. yung pahayag ay hango sa panaginip ni Juan at hula yun sa mangyayari sa mundo.
walang masama to hail mary, as hail means to cheer, salute, or greet. sabi ko nga di ba nirerespeto siya dahil sa pambihirang pangyayaring naganap sa kaniya nung siya ay pagkatiwalaan ng diyos para isilang si kristo, pero hanggang dun lang. di mo na kailangan pang manalangin sa kanya, kay kristo lang. ikaw yata matigas ulo eh, sabi nga kay kristo lang bakit kailangan pa maghanap ng iba para kausapin si kristo o ang diyos, eh si kristo na nga ang tagapamagitan sa AMA. oh eto..
19Kaya nga, ano ang layunin ng kautusan? Ito ay idinagdag ng Diyos dahil sa pagsalansang, hanggang sa dumating ang binhi, na siyang binigyan ng pangako. Ang kautusan ay itinakda sa pamamagitan ng mga anghel sa kamay ng isang tagapamagitan. 20Ang tagapamagitan ay hindi para sa isang panig lamang, ngunit ang Diyos ay iisa.
21Kaya nga, kung magkagayon, ang kautusan ba ay laban sa mga pangakong ibinigay ng Diyos? Huwag nawang mangyari. Ito ay sapagkat kung maaring makapagkaloob ng isang kautusan na makakapagbigay ng buhay, tunay ngang ang pagpapaging-matuwid ay sa pamamagitan ng kautusan.
inutos ba ng tagapamagitan na manalangin sa santo, banal, anghel, o kahit kanino pa na gusto niyo. di ba ang utos ay manalangin ka sa ngalan ni hesu-kristo?
di matigas ang ulo ko, pinipilit mo kasi sa kin yung paniniwalang walang matibay na basehan kaya akala mo matigas ang ulo ko.
Pero hindi ba pwdeng humingi ng tulong sa iba upang ikaw ay ipagdasal???
HINDI!!! Dahil si kristo ang tanging tagapagligtas, hari ng mga hari, tagapamagitan sa AMA, sa kanya ka lang manalagin at sa AMA. sa Ngalan ni Kristong Hesus. Amen*symbianize.com/showthread.php?p=381688#post381688
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kat_holos
Guest
“magbigay kayo ng verse sa bible na si maria ay umakyat sa langit, babalik ako sa pagiging katoliko.”
First and foremost, invite him to read the “Know the Truth” magazine, the second edition which has a very good discussion about Mary. Second, invite him to visit www.catholic.com.
Now, I would like to discuss some of the arguments raised by your INC friend, and here are some of the points where we will focus our discussion:
Third, about Mary being assumed to heaven. Well, I am challenging your INC friend to convert to Catholicism if he finds any verse in the Scripture that says Mary was never assumed into heaven. The Scripture does not even say that Mary was never assumed into heaven. All the more, the Scripture was never silent about the assumption of Mary to heaven. But before we go to the Scripture, lets have some trivia about the history of the Early Church. During the Early Church, Christians were very zealous in preserving the remains (e.g. bones, relics, tombs) of every martyrs and saints. But how come the body of the beloved mother of Jesus was never found! There is no shrine on earth that keeps the body of Mary. She does have a tomb in Ephesus and an allege tomb in Jerusalem, but there is no body and we all know, just like the case of Jesus, that an empty tomb means resurrection. That is why Early Christians firmly believed in the assumption of Mary’s body to heaven. In fact, although the Proto-Evangelium of James never made it to the canon of our Bible, still it reflects the belief of early Christians about Mary assuming both body and soul to heaven. Things about our faith are not always recorded fully in the Bible (read my blog on Friendster about the Bible, find kat_holos@yahoo.com). Now, on the Scriptures, the Scriptures give us some example of people assumed both body and soul to heaven:
If Elijah and Enoch was brought to heaven, how much more that the mother of God, who was preserved from Death by being free from sin be not be brought to heaven? The Dogma of Mary’s Assumption is connected with her being Immaculate, study the Dogma of Immaculate Concepcion. She was assumed into heaven because she was pure, she was free from sin. Sin brings death to man, see Romans 6:23. But since Mary is immaculate, she could not have been under the power of Death, and the next most logical thing to think of is, she is now in her Son’s kingdom which is Heaven. That is why, we could not be mistaken if we would identify the Woman Cloth with the Sun in Revelations 12 as Mary – let us remember that the one who wrote the Revelation is the disciple whom Jesus entrusted his mother, who else would better know Mary among the disciples of Jesus other than John. By the way, the woman who had an enmity with the serpent in Genesis 3:15 and the woman cloth with the Sun in Revelations 12 is one, study it well. If you have questions, just post it here. Invite your friend to visit this blog.
First and foremost, invite him to read the “Know the Truth” magazine, the second edition which has a very good discussion about Mary. Second, invite him to visit www.catholic.com.
Now, I would like to discuss some of the arguments raised by your INC friend, and here are some of the points where we will focus our discussion:
- That Catholics worship Mary
- The role of being Co-Mediator of Mary
- The Assumption of Mary
First, it is always important to present to your opponent the official teaching of the Church. So we will consult the Catechism of the Catholic Church. In his accusation that Catholics worship Mary, The Catechism of the Catholic Church no 2110 upholds the First Commandment given to Moses, it says “ The First Commandment forbids honoring gods other than the one Lord who has revealed himself to his people.” Even in the Nicene Creed (where the Apostle’s Creed in derived), the first confession is “We believe in ONE God” – clearly the Catholic Church stands firm on its belief in ONE GOD – One God who is the ONLY ONE to be worshipped. Therefore the Catholic Church teaches that every Catholic should only worship God and no other, not even Mary. Every Catholic who is in his sound mind knows this and because of that, they do not worship Mary. A Catholic who is rooted in the teachings of the Church knows that Mary is not to be worshipped. Asked him if when he was a Catholic he was ever taught to worship Mary. If his answer is yes, then most probably he was taught with an alien doctrine, alien to the Catholic faith. If not, then its because its not a norm in the Catholic faith to worship Mary. The Church never ever taught that one should worship Mary. God alone is to be worshipped. Now why do Catholics revere Mary more than any other humans, it is because she herself being filled with grace and with the Holy Spirit proclaims, “age from age shall call me blessed”.
Third, about Mary being assumed to heaven. Well, I am challenging your INC friend to convert to Catholicism if he finds any verse in the Scripture that says Mary was never assumed into heaven. The Scripture does not even say that Mary was never assumed into heaven. All the more, the Scripture was never silent about the assumption of Mary to heaven. But before we go to the Scripture, lets have some trivia about the history of the Early Church. During the Early Church, Christians were very zealous in preserving the remains (e.g. bones, relics, tombs) of every martyrs and saints. But how come the body of the beloved mother of Jesus was never found! There is no shrine on earth that keeps the body of Mary. She does have a tomb in Ephesus and an allege tomb in Jerusalem, but there is no body and we all know, just like the case of Jesus, that an empty tomb means resurrection. That is why Early Christians firmly believed in the assumption of Mary’s body to heaven. In fact, although the Proto-Evangelium of James never made it to the canon of our Bible, still it reflects the belief of early Christians about Mary assuming both body and soul to heaven. Things about our faith are not always recorded fully in the Bible (read my blog on Friendster about the Bible, find kat_holos@yahoo.com). Now, on the Scriptures, the Scriptures give us some example of people assumed both body and soul to heaven:
Code:
Gen, 5:24 and Heb 11:5 tells us that Enoch was assumed bodily to heaven without dying.
2 Kings 2:11 -12; 1 Macc. 2:58, shows us that Elijah was assumed into heaven
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w_stewart
Guest
F
flewen
Guest
diri sa Davao kay si Sir John DIola ang president sa CFD…naay mga Chapters sa UM(University of Mindanao), San Antonio de Padua Parish- Agdao, USEP(UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHEASTERN PHILIPPINES) and nagaplano ang DMMA(Davao Meerchant Marine Academy) COllege of Southern Philippines na magkaroon pud ug chapter…ug ang mother chapter ang San Pedro Cathedral…ala lang, just sharing…
naa silay website, catholicfaithdefender.co.cc/
unsa pud ang sa laing lugar?
naa silay website, catholicfaithdefender.co.cc/
unsa pud ang sa laing lugar?
A
arvinsim
Guest
Taga CDO ka, flewen bah?
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iamACE
Guest
**Thank you Kat_Holos
Our new topic is 'bout Mary as Co-Redemptrix…
**
Our new topic is 'bout Mary as Co-Redemptrix…
He’s asking if it’s Biblical and if Jesus needs to have a Co-Redemptrix to redeem the world…
**
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iamACE
Guest
Unsaon pag-apil ana? Interesado kuya…diri sa Davao kay si Sir John DIola ang president sa CFD…naay mga Chapters sa UM(University of Mindanao), San Antonio de Padua Parish- Agdao, USEP(UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHEASTERN PHILIPPINES) and nagaplano ang DMMA(Davao Meerchant Marine Academy) COllege of Southern Philippines na magkaroon pud ug chapter…ug ang mother chapter ang San Pedro Cathedral…ala lang, just sharing…
naa silay website, catholicfaithdefender.co.cc/
unsa pud ang sa laing lugar?
M
MarkA16
Guest
I’ve read two very old threads about this organization and was curious about it after meeting a girl who was in it.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=106830
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=35184
Anyway, she said that there are some things that she cannot tell me because I’m not part of BNP. Are there any current BNP members that can tell me why this is? Why would the organization only limit some info to its members? Seems like it’s completely separate from the Catholic Church because they claim to be Catholic, I’m Catholic, so I don’t know why they would keep things only in their organization and not other Catholics as well.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=106830
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=35184
Anyway, she said that there are some things that she cannot tell me because I’m not part of BNP. Are there any current BNP members that can tell me why this is? Why would the organization only limit some info to its members? Seems like it’s completely separate from the Catholic Church because they claim to be Catholic, I’m Catholic, so I don’t know why they would keep things only in their organization and not other Catholics as well.
- Status