P
PJM
Guest
“Catholics are wrong”
***Is this person correct? Why or why not?
This person holds an improper understanding of the Bible. One [us included] is always at risk in culling a limited message consisting of but a few isolated verses.***
In this instance we can know that the understanding is in error, not only from the bible itself, as we shall soon see; but also The Valid Bible Study Rule that states, [based on 2Tim**. 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, ] that no part of the Bible which “has to be true as a result of Divine Inspiration, can logically contradict, what is elsewhere taught in the Bible.”
So let us began by pointing out the clarity of Biblical Teaching on the “Real Presence.” Five different NT Bible authors have written accounts of this miracle and reality of Christ Real Presence. Four of them are “eye witness “ PERSONAL accounts. Further, four of the five authors actually gave there lives in brutal martyrdom in defense of this Catholic Dogma, and John was “boiled in Oil” but vivaciously survived the attempt on his life.
It is the “sacramental book” of John that gives the GREATEST evidence, but this truth is clearly expressed in Mt. 16: 26-28, Mk. 14: 22-24, Lk. 22: 19-21, and by Paul in
1 Cor. 11: 23-29.
From the Gospel “GOOD NEWS”] of John;, chapter 6
[40] For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, `I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, "Do not murmur among yourselves.
[47] “Truly, truly, I say to you,” he who believes has eternal life. “I am” the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. “
**[52] **“The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. “
Like you friend, they assumed Jesus was speaking of His current pre -Death / pre-Resurrected body. NO! Eucharist is a memorial of the Risen Christ, who can only die once. BUT His Risen Body is too REAL, and Really Jesus!
***So then here is the body of evidence that contradicts the held position. From FIVE NT authors.
Now to explain the error in culling only the verses selected. The verse copied below, precede and explain what Jesus was talking about.***
**Matt.24: 1-9 **“Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” …
**[4] **And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, `I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs. "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.”
**[29] **"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near”
Now it is evident that by putting these segments together, from the same Gospel and chapter, a different understanding emerges. Jesus is warning ONLY about the “End Times.” So one ought to see the grievous error of the narrow understanding put forth. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christ Real Presence, and once again we Catholics are justified in our beliefs.
With a sincere heart these verses were identified as “Biblical Evidence” the Catholics cannot be RIGHT about the Real Presence of Christ.
***Is this person correct? Why or why not?
This person holds an improper understanding of the Bible. One [us included] is always at risk in culling a limited message consisting of but a few isolated verses.***
In this instance we can know that the understanding is in error, not only from the bible itself, as we shall soon see; but also The Valid Bible Study Rule that states, [based on 2Tim**. 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, ] that no part of the Bible which “has to be true as a result of Divine Inspiration, can logically contradict, what is elsewhere taught in the Bible.”
So let us began by pointing out the clarity of Biblical Teaching on the “Real Presence.” Five different NT Bible authors have written accounts of this miracle and reality of Christ Real Presence. Four of them are “eye witness “ PERSONAL accounts. Further, four of the five authors actually gave there lives in brutal martyrdom in defense of this Catholic Dogma, and John was “boiled in Oil” but vivaciously survived the attempt on his life.
It is the “sacramental book” of John that gives the GREATEST evidence, but this truth is clearly expressed in Mt. 16: 26-28, Mk. 14: 22-24, Lk. 22: 19-21, and by Paul in
1 Cor. 11: 23-29.
From the Gospel “GOOD NEWS”] of John;, chapter 6
[40] For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, `I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, "Do not murmur among yourselves.
[47] “Truly, truly, I say to you,” he who believes has eternal life. “I am” the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. “
**[52] **“The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. “
Like you friend, they assumed Jesus was speaking of His current pre -Death / pre-Resurrected body. NO! Eucharist is a memorial of the Risen Christ, who can only die once. BUT His Risen Body is too REAL, and Really Jesus!
***So then here is the body of evidence that contradicts the held position. From FIVE NT authors.
Now to explain the error in culling only the verses selected. The verse copied below, precede and explain what Jesus was talking about.***
**Matt.24: 1-9 **“Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” …
**[4] **And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, `I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs. "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.”
**[29] **"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near”
Now it is evident that by putting these segments together, from the same Gospel and chapter, a different understanding emerges. Jesus is warning ONLY about the “End Times.” So one ought to see the grievous error of the narrow understanding put forth. It has absolutely nothing to do with Christ Real Presence, and once again we Catholics are justified in our beliefs.
