Catholic arguments against Universal Basic Income

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Funny thing is all of these beliefs of bad things happening from UBI never actually materialized in tests, hours worked and percent of able bodied adults in the workforce went down, but if a father cuts back a little on overtime to spend more time raising his kids, a mother takes a year off work to raise a newborn or a young adult goes to college instead of immediately taking a job, is any of that actually bad?
 
St. John Chrysostom pointed out that confiscating the wealth of the rich and giving it to the poor will a) cause the rich to become bitter and resentful of their stolen goods, and b) the poor will not appreciate the gift, since it comes from bureaucratic demands instead of loving, voluntary giving.
Citation?
 
I don’t like the UBI idea. I was on welfare for several years, while my children were young, and I was terrified of getting into the workforce. If the system hadn’t required me to look for work when my youngest child started school, I’d probably still be on it.
But it was required, and I went back to school for a practical degree and have been supporting myself and numerous other people for 35 years.
Besides, it gives the government too much power. The government should collect taxes to supply roads, fire departments, police, healthcare and assistance to needy children and elderly. Aside from that, it should stay out of our lives.

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St. John Chrysostom pointed out that confiscating the wealth of the rich and giving it to the poor will a) cause the rich to become bitter and resentful of their stolen goods, and **b) the poor will not appreciate the gift, since it comes from bureaucratic demands instead of loving, voluntary giving. **

Also, anyone who has studied economics knows that the minimum wage does not lift anyone out of poverty. In fact, all it does is artificially increase the cost of employment, leading to a labor surplus (aka unemployment).
Clearly he has never been cold, homeless or hungry, The truly poor care not where the money for food etc comes from . Please believe me on that. even three generations ago I woudl be confined to a workhouse…

I understand the idealism but reality needs seeing.
 
I know my comment will pale in comparison to that of others, especially being so short, but, as Christians, we must be responsible for ourselves. Even for the basics of life like food or shelter, we are to provide for ourselves inasmuch as it is our ability.

Yes, charity and care are important, but that does not mean that the State provides for our needs. Also, this can be easily abused… 🤷
That last sentence saddens me greatly .Such a common accusation.
 
So to be clear, the objections levied thus far are:

  1. *]It would be difficult
    *]People are principally driven to work by the desire to accumulate wealth
    *]Building on 2, People would not work as hard if they knew a significant part of their income went to helping the poor

    This just makes me sad.

  1. Me too… Thank you
 
Recently an idea has become rather fashionable among certain socialist politicians and economists that the state should provide for all it’s citizens basic needs by paying each person enough money to survive and have all the necessities of life. (Universal Basic Income).

Besides the obvious practical issues with such a scheme, what would be the Catholic arguments against it? I have a certain friend who has “latched on” to this idea and other “redistribution of wealth” style ideas and seems to believe that the state should take much more control over these things than it does already.

My own attitude would be an extreme distrust of such a scheme, especially since it resembles communism so much.
Why do you presuppose there is a basis in Catholic faith to oppose this idea?
 
The operation of the tax / welfare system in the US is I understand of limited assistance to the poor (at least when compared that operating in a range of other countries). The proportion of the population beneath the “poverty line” was measured both before tax & benefits and after tax & benefits. In most countries, the effect of the “tax and benefits” regime is to reduce the proportion under the poverty line. The US system had an almost negligible effect on this measure.
 
Jesus never said require others by government power and confiscation of property to do these things. He said we should, individually, and through the charitable giving we do. Taxes are not charitable giving.

Jon
Hmmm, an interesting view. But a hollow argument. The poor must be fed.
 
There are countries where there is no Minimum wage and it works because there are unions that have negotiated agreements directly with employers. In Ireland, where I live, that system wouldn’t work. If the Irish Government abolished minimum wage, I’m confident that many employers would reduce the wage to the lowest level they could get away with.
There is a large imbalance of power between employer and employee. It is difficult to believe that would just naturally lead to acceptable outcomes. We see the same in failure of markets when a small number of companies control the bulk of supply. Prices then are high for no reason other than the lack of competition makes it possible.

Why anyone believes that markets absent regulation will just naturally produce satisfactory outcomes is beyondd me.
 
The poor must be fed, that is His command. God also commands that we not steal. There is nothing hollow about following His commands.

Jon
When we form societies and empower legislatures we hand over some autonomy to representative and/or collective decision-making. In most countries, we’ve collectively decided that the well off pay more tax and the government use some of it to assist the least well off. To call that stealing seems odd. It seems a practice at least in tune with the call to help the poor.
 
I don’t like the UBI idea. I was on welfare for several years, while my children were young, and I was terrified of getting into the workforce. If the system hadn’t required me to look for work when my youngest child started school, I’d probably still be on it.
But it was required, and I went back to school for a practical degree and have been supporting myself and numerous other people for 35 years.
Besides, it gives the government too much power. The government should collect taxes to supply roads, fire departments, police, healthcare and assistance to needy children and elderly. Aside from that, it should stay out of our lives.

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If only the left would hear you! Or they do but keeping people scared and depending upon them may just be what certain string pullers want???

😦
 
When we form societies and empower legislatures we hand over some autonomy to representative and/or collective decision-making. In most countries, we’ve collectively decided that the well off pay more tax and the government use some of it to assist the least well off. To call that stealing seems odd. It seems a practice at least in tune with the call to help the poor.
That is not the model of governance set down in the U.S. Constitution. But that said, if a society determines this is the way to feed the poor, it cannot be called charity, nor compassionate because it is neither. There is no charity in requiring others by force to give. That is contrary to free will. And the practice seems to be contrary to Subsidiarity, as well

Jon
 
That is not the model of governance set down in the U.S. Constitution. But that said, if a society determines this is the way to feed the poor, it cannot be called charity, nor compassionate because it is neither. There is no charity in requiring others by force to give. That is contrary to free will. And the practice seems to be contrary to Subsidiarity, as well

Jon
Look again. You have a representative legislature. It makes laws. You can replace the legislature or members of it through a collective process. You have all this by collective choice and by collective consent. Get over it.

Is there a widespread call in the US to end all welfare?
 
Look again. You have a representative legislature. It makes laws. You can replace the legislature or members of it through a collective process. You have all this by collective choice and by collective consent. Get over it.

Is there a widespread call in the US to end all welfare?
Look again, we are a constitutional representative republic. These programs are, at best, extra constitutional. There should be a widespread call for the end of welfare. It has cost multiple trillions of dollars since the Great Society programs began in the sixties, and poverty, not surprisingly, is perhaps worse. Inner city families have been destroyed by the rules of AFDC. The outcomes of the welfare state have been catastrophic

Government welfare is far more damaging to the culture and individuals than charity. I am not Catholic, but I would be much more willing to turn welfare over to Catholic Charities.

Jon
 
Look again, we are a constitutional representative republic. These programs are, at best, extra constitutional. There should be a widespread call for the end of welfare.
My prior post is accurate, no matter what name you apply to your society.

That there is no widespread call to end welfare may suggest a collective decision in its favour!
 
My prior post is accurate, no matter what name you apply to your society.

That there is no widespread call to end welfare may suggest a collective decision in its favour!
Yes, we were warned that the republic would survive only until the government learned it could bribe the people with their own money. The welfare state has been catastrophic for millions of Americans for two and three generations now. So much for the wisdom of collectivism. You’d think we would have learned this lesson watching 20th century central and eastern Europe.
BTW, if we used your "anticipated outcomes " from the gun ownership thread, considering that the welfare state has caused far worse outcomes, many more lives destroyed than gun ownership, and in fact the welfare state can properly be cited as a major contributor to inner city gun violence, welfare cannot be held as anything but immoral

Jon
 
Yes, we were warned that the republic would survive only until the government learned it could bribe the people with their own money. The welfare state has been catastrophic for millions of Americans for two and three generations now. So much for the wisdom of collectivism. You’d think we would have learned this lesson watching 20th century central and eastern Europe.
BTW, if we used your "anticipated outcomes " from the gun ownership thread, considering that the welfare state has caused far worse outcomes, many more lives destroyed than gun ownership, and in fact the welfare state can properly be cited as a major contributor to inner city gun violence, welfare cannot be held as anything but immoral

Jon
If a law caused more harm than good, it would indeed be immoral to enact it. But how many share your judgement that welfare does that and should be done away with?
 
If a law caused more harm than good, it would indeed be immoral to enact it. But how many share your judgement that welfare does that and should be done away with?
So now morality is based on majority rule? Morality is now something to be tested by Gallop?
I think the statistics speak for themselves

Jon
 
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