Catholic baptism + Assyrian godmother

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This is a question for someone of you, specialized in the matter. Excuse me if the answer is given elsewhere…

My daughter must be baptized and we have already a catholic godfather in mind. As godmother I asked a colleague of mine. She is baptized in the Catholic Church and did everyting else (including her confirmation) also in our Church. Being from Assyrian origin she says she is a member of the “Assyrian Church of the East” (NOT in full communion). The question arises of course: can she be the godmother?
  1. yes, because she is a simple catholic and is willing to support as godmother
  2. yes, because the godfather is catholic and de godmother is close enough to our faith
  3. yes, because of eucemenic reasons
  4. no, because she isn’t a believer
The answer on questions 2,3 and 4 are for me important.
 
This is a question for someone of you, specialized in the matter. Excuse me if the answer is given elsewhere…

My daughter must be baptized and we have already a catholic godfather in mind. As godmother I asked a colleague of mine. She is baptized in the Catholic Church and did everyting else (including her confirmation) also in our Church. Being from Assyrian origin she says she is a member of the “Assyrian Church of the East” (NOT in full communion). The question arises of course: can she be the godmother?
  1. yes, because she is a simple catholic and is willing to support as godmother
  2. yes, because the godfather is catholic and de godmother is close enough to our faith
  3. yes, because of eucemenic reasons
  4. no, because she isn’t a believer
The answer on questions 2,3 and 4 are for me important.
I’m not sure why she would have been baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church, but is a member of the Assyrian Church of the East. Was there no Assyrian Church available when she was baptized? Or maybe she was baptized as a Chaldean Catholic?

At any rate, she is allowed to be a godmother because the Catholic Church allows members of the Orthodox Churches (Eastern and Oriental) to be godparents. As a member of the Assyrian Church of the East, she falls in that category. I don’t believe there is a requirement to have a Catholic godparent in this situation.
Because of the close communion between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches, it is permissible for a just cause for an Eastern faithful to act as godparent; together with a Catholic godparent, at the baptism of a Catholic infant or adult, so long as there is provision for the Catholic education of the person being baptized, and it is clear that the godparent is a suitable one (Principles and Norms on Ecumenism 98b).
 
Her parents fled Syria already more than 20 years ago and indeed, in our country (Belgium) the “Assyrian Church of the East” doesn’t have much clergy. She is no Chaldean catholic. She is more suitable than other people I know, that’s why I would like her. And of course my children need to be raised as tolerant but firm believing catholics.

Thank you very much for your swift answer.
 
This is a question for someone of you, specialized in the matter. Excuse me if the answer is given elsewhere…

My daughter must be baptized and we have already a catholic godfather in mind. As godmother I asked a colleague of mine. She is baptized in the Catholic Church and did everyting else (including her confirmation) also in our Church. Being from Assyrian origin she says she is a member of the “Assyrian Church of the East” (NOT in full communion). The question arises of course: can she be the godmother?
  1. yes, because she is a simple catholic and is willing to support as godmother
  2. yes, because the godfather is catholic and de godmother is close enough to our faith
  3. yes, because of eucemenic reasons
  4. no, because she isn’t a believer
The answer on questions 2,3 and 4 are for me important.
If Latin Catholic, CIC applies, the sponser should be a practicing Catholic, in good faith, with all three sacraments of Christian Initiation:

CHAPTER IV.

SPONSORS

Can. 872 Insofar as possible, a person to be baptized is to be given a sponsor who assists an adult in Christian initiation or together with the parents presents an infant for baptism. A sponsor also helps the baptized person to lead a Christian life in keeping with baptism and to fulfill faithfully the obligations inherent in it.

Can. 873 There is to be only one male sponsor or one female sponsor or one of each.

Can. 874 §1. To be permitted to take on the function of sponsor a person must:

1/ be designated by the one to be baptized, by the parents or the person who takes their place, or in their absence by the pastor or minister and have the aptitude and intention of fulfilling this function;

2/ have completed the sixteenth year of age, unless the diocesan bishop has established another age, or the pastor or minister has granted an exception for a just cause;

3/ be a Catholic who has been confirmed and has already received the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist and who leads a life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on;

4/ not be bound by any canonical penalty legitimately imposed or declared;

5/ not be the father or mother of the one to be baptized.

§2. A baptized person who belongs to a non-Catholic ecclesial community is not to participate except together with a Catholic sponsor and then only as a witness of the baptism.​
 
This is a question for someone of you, specialized in the matter. Excuse me if the answer is given elsewhere…

My daughter must be baptized and we have already a catholic godfather in mind. As godmother I asked a colleague of mine. She is baptized in the Catholic Church and did everyting else (including her confirmation) also in our Church. Being from Assyrian origin she says she is a member of the “Assyrian Church of the East” (NOT in full communion). The question arises of course: can she be the godmother?
  1. yes, because she is a simple catholic and is willing to support as godmother
  2. yes, because the godfather is catholic and de godmother is close enough to our faith
  3. yes, because of eucemenic reasons
  4. no, because she isn’t a believer
The answer on questions 2,3 and 4 are for me important.
Hello,

Interesting situation. While it can be said that the woman is Catholic (legally), if she is not a “practicing Catholic” it can be argued that she doesn’t fulfill the requirements of canon law (as provided by Vico). Nevertheless, even if that is true, she *can still *act as godparent.

Number 98b of the “Ecumenical Directory” (as it is commonly called), has this to say:
Because of the close communion between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches, it is permissible for a just cause for an Eastern faithful to act as godparent; together with a Catholic godparent, at the baptism of a Catholic infant or adult, so long as there is provision for the Catholic education of the person being baptized, and it is clear that the godparent is a suitable one. vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_25031993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html
You should discuss the matter with your parish priest to ensure that he is aware of what the facts are and is also of the opinion that the woman is “suitable” for this role.

Dan
 
This is a question for someone of you, specialized in the matter. Excuse me if the answer is given elsewhere…

My daughter must be baptized and we have already a catholic godfather in mind. As godmother I asked a colleague of mine. She is baptized in the Catholic Church and did everyting else (including her confirmation) also in our Church. Being from Assyrian origin she says she is a member of the “Assyrian Church of the East” (NOT in full communion). The question arises of course: can she be the godmother?
  1. yes, because she is a simple catholic and is willing to support as godmother
  2. yes, because the godfather is catholic and de godmother is close enough to our faith
  3. yes, because of eucemenic reasons
  4. no, because she isn’t a believer
The answer on questions 2,3 and 4 are for me important.
The Assyrian Church of the East is the sister Church to the Chaldean Catholic Church, and have agreements for mutual offering of certain Sacraments under limited conditions.

“Regarding the first requirement that a godparent be Catholic, there is one exception that concerns the relationship between Eastern Rite Catholics and our separated brethren in the Orthodox Church. For a just cause,regarding the Baptism of an Eastern Catholic, it is permitted to admit the Christian faithful of another Eastern non-Catholic Church to the function of a sponsor, but always at the same time with a Catholic sponsor. This means that a Ukrainian Catholic may have a Russian Orthodox godparent, provided that there is a good reason for it (family relationship) and he also has another Catholic godparent.”

Please read the following and discuss with your parish priest and if needed, your bishop: cuf.org/FileDownloads/godparents.pdf
 
There may be a simpler way to do this. The Code of Canon Law (vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P2Y.HTM) only requires 1 godparent to be a practicing Catholic. A baptized non-Catholic can participate with a Catholic sponsor as a witness.

So the practicing Catholic could be the godfather and the Assyrian “godmother” could stand in as a witness.
 
Actually, the Assyrian Church is no Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Church. From Wikipedia: “Unlike most other churches that trace their origins to antiquity, the modern Assyrian Church of the East is not in communion with any other churches, either Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant, although the modern Chaldean Catholic Church is an offshoot of the Church of the East.”

This is what a deacon of the Assyrian Church wrote me:

"Sponsorship in holy baptism requires that both the sponsor and and the godparent have the same faith. Since it is the godparent who is presenting the child for baptism, and vouches that the child will be reared in the true faith of Christ, there cannot be disparity of cult.

Unity of faith is a must for one to be a godparent. Since the Assyrian Church does not hold to a number of Roman Catholic dogmas/doctrines, there is no unity of faith in this scenario. Here are the instances of the dogmas/doctrines wherein we differ, just to name a few:
  1. Purgatory
  2. Assumption of the Virgin Mary
  3. Immaculate Conception of Mary
  4. Universal primacy of the bishop of Rome
  5. The appellation of Theotokos/Mother of God for the Blessed Virgin
  6. the understanding of Original Sin
  7. the doctrine of Transubstantiation
    …"
So, for them it’s a no go.
 
Actually, the Assyrian Church is no Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Church. From Wikipedia: “Unlike most other churches that trace their origins to antiquity, the modern Assyrian Church of the East is not in communion with any other churches, either Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant, although the modern Chaldean Catholic Church is an offshoot of the Church of the East.”

This is what a deacon of the Assyrian Church wrote me:

"Sponsorship in holy baptism requires that both the sponsor and and the godparent have the same faith. Since it is the godparent who is presenting the child for baptism, and vouches that the child will be reared in the true faith of Christ, there cannot be disparity of cult.

Unity of faith is a must for one to be a godparent. Since the Assyrian Church does not hold to a number of Roman Catholic dogmas/doctrines, there is no unity of faith in this scenario. Here are the instances of the dogmas/doctrines wherein we differ, just to name a few:
  1. Purgatory
  2. Assumption of the Virgin Mary
  3. Immaculate Conception of Mary
  4. Universal primacy of the bishop of Rome
  5. The appellation of Theotokos/Mother of God for the Blessed Virgin
  6. the understanding of Original Sin
  7. the doctrine of Transubstantiation
    …"
So, for them it’s a no go.
Well, that’s interesting. If this list reflects your friend’s beliefs, why do you think she would be suitable as a Godparent?

Dan
 
@Dan Well, she herself doesn’t know these differences (if these differences would exist). I also didn’t find these, that’s why I contacted them. Like I told you, she was raised in the Catholic Church. She never could go to much masses of the Assyrian Church, because there are almost none here. Her parents however stress they are from the Assyrian Church and she considers herself to be a part of that tradition.

I talked her the other day and she will in any case assimilate to Catholicism. The primal reason why I liked her as godparent is because of her christian character and behaviour. (The doctrinal part I will have to do by myself, with all my children.) Unfortunately you almost never find these qualities here anymore. You probably know both Catholic and Assyrian Church are working to come together. And strangely enough catholics are more willing to accept a member of the Assyrian Church as a godparent (stressing what we have in common) than Assyrians. I think we are right.

You can also read this, Dan, which shows you are right:

San Jose, CA., Jun 5, 2008 / 03:44 am (CNA).- Last month, Bishop Mar Bawai Soro and nearly 1,000 Assyrian Christian families were received into communion with the Chaldean Catholic Church in California. Bishop Bawai explained the process to CNA, and expressed his hope that other Assyrian churches will also consider uniting with the Catholic Church.

The Assyrian Church, centered in modern-day Iraq, dates back to the earliest days of Christianity. Around the fifth century, the Assyrian followers began to embrace the teachings of Nestorius, Archbishop of Constantinople whose doctrines were condemned by the Council of Ephesus in 431.

However, at the beginning in the sixteenth century, large numbers of Nestorian Assyrians came into union with Rome, creating the Chaldean Catholic Church which is now larger than the Assyrian Church.

Bishop Soro described the process of coming into communion with the Catholic Church to CNA: Twenty years ago, many of the Assyrian church’s faithful realized that other than Papal Primacy, there were no theological issues that existed between themselves and the Catholic Church. He explained that, “the more I studied Catholic theology, the more I became certain that both Churches were basically of the same apostolic faith and practice.”

The Assyrian prelate wasn’t the only one who saw this similarity. Bishop Soro recalled that, “at the same time, this hypothesis was also pondered upon by the official dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East. The conclusion after twenty years of casual ‘talks’ and official dialogue proved this hypothesis to be correct.”

However, in 2004 the patriarch and bishops “decided to suspend the dialogue with Rome” even though “all obstacles for restoring communion with the Catholic Church (Papal Primacy not included)” were proven not to exist.

Bishop Soro said that his fellow bishops’ rejection came despite a recognition that there was an agreement between the two traditions. He explained that, “they knew well that the ecclesial patrimony of the Assyrian Church of the East – canonical, liturgical, and patristic – recognizes the Primacy of the See of Rome. Despite the fact that this was my appeal and argument to my church leaders for many years - -be faithful to your tradition and enter the Catholic Communion, i.e., accept the Primacy of the Pope - - they did not listen.”

Instead, in 2005, “they decided both to break the dialogue with Rome and to suspend me from the Assyrian Church of the East. And so, since 2005, I have been able to rally those Assyrian faithful who became as discontent with their church’s attitude as I was and bring them to understand that the best step to be taken is the restoration of communion with Rome. In the past two and half years, we gradually paved the way for the historic move to unite with the Chaldean Church.”

Bishop Bar Mawai also spoke of his hope for the rest of the Assyrian Church of the East to unite with Rome. In an interview with Terrasanta.net, the bishop stated that while there is a possibility for community, two factors must be considered: time and hard work.

The prelate explained: “At the present time, some of the anger has to melt away before any realistic attempt is reinitiated. We are doing all that is humanly possible to reply with compassion and reason to all the accusation and condemnations some of the radical Assyrian groups and individuals are directing at us because of our union with Rome. We hope that ultimately the truth of God’s work and the message of His forgiving love will prevail over all trials.”

In regards to the second factor, the bishop emphasizes the importance of showing the world, “that church unity is a win/win proposition,” especially for Christians in Iraq. “The Christian communities out there need all the help and support they can muster. And, through such unity, for example, Iraqi Christians become more assertive of their commitment to all that will give witness to their Christian character and advance their genuine contribution Iraq.”
 
You should discuss this (send an email CC with the following:) with your priest and bishop, as well as the local Assyrian bishop, and even ask the Chaldean local bishop if you can. I am almost certain that Chaldean Catholics and Assyrians often do have members of the other as godparents; much rarer for Roman-Rite Catholics to have Assyrian godparents but it can’t be impossible.
 
This is a question for someone of you, specialized in the matter. Excuse me if the answer is given elsewhere…

My daughter must be baptized and we have already a catholic godfather in mind. As godmother I asked a colleague of mine. She is baptized in the Catholic Church and did everyting else (including her confirmation) also in our Church. Being from Assyrian origin she says she is a member of the “Assyrian Church of the East” (NOT in full communion). The question arises of course: can she be the godmother?
.
The simplest answer is that only one godparent is required (who must of course be Catholic). Your intended godfather fulfills this requirement. Christians of other denominations can be “Christian witnesses”. So thus the thorny issue of whether or not your intended Assyrian colleague qualifies as a godparent (for the purposes of Canon law at least) can be avoided altogether.
 
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