Catholic becoming Protestant

[steve-b]

So with respect to this please tell me have you studied out any of these so called miracles for yourself.

specific example / examples ?

 

[ProfFF]

I don’t know. But again you said miracles attributed to these canonized saints. Take the most recent one JP. Have you studied out the supposed miracles he performed. I don’t know what the church says he conducted.

 

[steve-b]

So just because only written form was OT, do you not believe that we should also study out the NT. Are you saying that this now doesn’t pertain to us today?

Not at all

Look again at what I was responding to. HERE

The point was, for almost the first 400 yrs, there was no “Bible”. The canon hadn’t officially been closed …YET. It was Jerome, who took the canon decreed by Pope Damasus I, and translated the first bible in Latin

ProfFF:

I will start with one. Please point or give me Book, chapter, and verse or verses that states Mary was sinless. Again not being rude but biblical evidence not the church teaching or quoting the catechism.

For a short read
HERE

 

[steve-b]

I don’t know. But again you said miracles attributed to these canonized saints. Take the most recent one JP. Have you studied out the supposed miracles he performed. I don’t know what the church says he conducted.

You misunderstand. A Saint’s intercession through prayer, doesn’t mean the saint performed the miracle.

You’ve heard the passage, the prayers of a righteous man/woman avails much… correct?

Who’s prayers avail more, those here who pray, or one’s prayers from heaven?.

If one prays to a saint and the prayer is answered, the saint’s prayers in heaven who was prayed to then, availed much here…correct?

consider this How to Defend the Intercession of the Saints | Catholic Answers

 

[ProfFF]

I will read the link, but that is another point that I have and that is that the Bible specifically tells us but we have only one mediator between us and God and that is Jesus Christ. I have a problem with praying to people who walked this earth.

But we have ONE high priest who did not sin. I know through a family member Mary is given many titles to include mother of angels. Why not say a High Priest and one of the many titles that is given to Mary. Not being rude with this either but angels were created by God, created spirits before man. So why a title like that.

 

[esieffe]

Best thing you can do is to be an example for them. You’ll be saving yourself and possibly them. Also, as a Catholic, I am in a much better position to efficaciously pray for them now and after they pass away. That is what I have done.

Your example may lead them back, and by they way, if they didn’t find scriptural evidence, it is because they really weren’t looking for it.

 

[Dorothy]

Pray, trust the Lord, and be not afraid!

 

[Dorothy]

We do call Mary, in one of her titles, “Queen of Angels”.

That is because she is “full of grace” (as the angel Gabriel addressed her).

Mary is nothing without the Lord, and she knows it. She said “He who is mighty has done great things for me.” (magnificat).

 

[Dorothy]

Do you ever ask a friend to pray for an intention you have? I have, and they ask me as well. We are family! Family cares about each other.

And, yes of course Jesus Christ is the One Mediator!

Jesus never said we shouldn’t pray for one another. I strongly believe those in heaven can pray for us as well. We intercede for each other.

 

[annad347]

Most of the people here are telling @ilovejesus to pray for her family in hopes they realize the truth and return to the Catholic church… and I can imagine if @ilovejesus’s family, is fearful that she’s in the wrong church, is being advised to do the same for her by a member at a Protestant church.

Each family member is praying for the other to be in the church that will correctly and truthfully lead them to God. Each family member honestly believes they are in the church God wants them to be in to serve and worship Him. To learn to live by God’s will through the Holy Spirit.

This is a Catholic forum, ever Catholic here is going to tell @ilovejesus that her family needs prayer in hopes they return to the true church created by Jesus.

If one of her family members was to go to a Protestant message board, I’d bet many of them would be saying the same thing. Pray she finds the truth.

Does anyone see anything strange about that?

We all love Jesus, we all praise Jesus, we all follow Jesus. We know the church we are attending is teaching us the truth about Jesus, about God, about our Savior. We know this for many different reasons, but we know we are in the church that is correct, why be cause we trust God lead us correctly.

So, when did we stop trusting God to tell us the truth? Trust that He knows what’s best for us? When do we stop trying to tell Him where or what we should be doing to serve Him? Do we know better then God?

No one can honestly say why one person goes to one church over another, nor can anyone honestly say it isn’t God’s will for them to go to that church. Unless you’ve developed the power to read God’s mind you can’t.

We should be praying for each other no matter what. Your family is going to a Protestant church, you’re going to a Catholic church, thank God you’re going to church. Serve the Lord, live by God’s will, be thankful for all and leave the rest to God. If something has to change trust that the Lord will change it.

Is is possible for someone in a Protestant church to be saved, YES, because with God all things are possible.

Jesus looked at them intently, then said, “Without God, it is utterly impossible. But with God everything is possible.” Mark 10:27

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

No one can honestly say why one person goes to one church over another, nor can anyone honestly say it isn’t God’s will for them to go to that church.

Does this mean that if I do say it is God’s will for them to return to the Catholic Church, and that they left the Catholic Church due to either misunderstandings or repudiations of truth, you would call me dishonest?

 

[annad347]

Does this mean that if I do say it is God’s will for them to return to the Catholic Church, and that they left the Catholic Church due to either misunderstandings or repudiations of truth, you would call me dishonest?

Why would I, are you being dishonest? Is that what you truly believe?

 

[AlmaRedemptorisMater]

When you say “No one can honestly say…” it seems to connote an assumption that any claim following is dishonest.

As a matter of fact, I do say that it is God’s will for them - and everyone - to be a part of the Church that He established on earth. We know it is God’s will from the words of His Son and the Apostles.

Should people follow their conscience? Of course, but I posit that most people have nearly zero clue what is discernment of the conscience, and what is patent self-deception. For if one claims to be led by the Holy Spirit in their discernment, I would expect they would be drawn closer to Christ’s Church, not further away from it.

So then, I do say that the OP’s family left the Catholic Church by means of likely a misunderstanding or personal conflict that led to a self-justification of separation from the Sacraments.

Does this necessarily mean they cannot be saved? No, and I haven’t really seen anyone here make that claim. What is does mean is that since they lack the Sacraments, it would take perfect contrition for their sins. But do you know what that means?

That means they must be truly and deeply sorry for the sins they have made including the sin of leaving the Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church. This is why we pray for them and the OP.

The fact that Protestants would say similar things except that they would remain Protestant means nothing when we discuss objective truth. You seem to be intimating that Jesus is perfectly fine with a form of relative truth. Love is important, of course, but it cannot be separated from truth, else it is not true love.

 

[MamaJewel]

I am sorry but Paul said to study scripture daily on things taught.

Again no disrespect meant.

I’m reading through this thread and i do not mean any disrespect.

What scriptures was Paul referring to when he said to read the scriptures?
Certainly not the New Testament, because it did not exist at that time.
That means an early Christian would have been commanded by Paul to read the Jewish scriptures like the Torah and prophets. What about the Talmud, Mishnahs, and Qabala?
What was Paul reading?

I’ve seen in books that the Jews had many traditions that had been passed down orally and varied by the geographical location of where one lived. Who’s to say exactly what was considered acceptable or not by Jesus’ or Peter’s or Paul’s standards of beliefs at that time. We don’t have anything written directly by Christ’s hand at this time. Letters attributed to Peter, Paul, and other disciples are considered by historians to be written by someone else.

It truly takes a leap of faith to believe in Christianity.

 

[annad347]

When you say “No one can honestly say…” it seems to connote an assumption that any claim following is dishonest.

connote and assumption? I’m just saying that no one can read God’s mind. Say, why He puts people on the path they are on.

As a matter of fact, I do say that it is God’s will for them - and everyone - to be a part of the Church that He established on earth. We know it is God’s will from the words of His Son and the Apostles.

but they are in The Church… catholic also means universal… all included.

Does this necessarily mean they cannot be saved? No, and I haven’t really seen anyone here make that claim.

Never said anyone said that, I said everyone was telling @ilovejesus should pray for their family to return to the Catholic church… and that the her family is probably doing the same.

Its good the OP is going to a Catholic church, but I don’t think its terrible that her family is going to a Protestant church.

yes I’m guessing the OP is female, sorry if she/he isn’t.

 

[LilyM]

How can I trust God in this situation? Any advice? I have such fear for this.

God loves and wants what is best for your family members far more than.even you do. Think of.the parable of.the lost sheep, and the lengths to which He will.go to reach out to all who are at any risk of being lost.

 

[steve-b]

I will read the link, but that is another point that I have and that is that the Bible specifically tells us but we have only one mediator between us and God and that is Jesus Christ. I have a problem with praying to people who walked this earth.

A few points

You’ve never asked anyone here, to pray for you or an intention you have a need for?

I’ll just say, people in heaven aren’t dead.. They are more alive than we are.

AND

Please do me a small favor. Show me in scripture, where we (HERE), are NOT to pray for one another.

THEN

Please Show me where in scripture, those in heaven, have NOTHING to do with our prayers HERE on earth

ProfFF:

But we have ONE high priest who did not sin. I know through a family member Mary is given many titles to include mother of angels. Why not say a High Priest and one of the many titles that is given to Mary. Not being rude with this either but angels were created by God, created spirits before man. So why a title like that.

Since you don’t open and read links given that answers your questions, here’s another link you probably won’t read as well, that answers your current question. It’s a short read. Mary, Queen of Heaven and Earth | Catholic Answers | Catholic Answers

 

[VeryBlessed]

To the OP: I am a “revert”, born into the church, left after college, and now I’m back after many years in really good wonderful protestant evangelical churches. I had wonderful experiences in the protestant churches I went to and I really grew in my faith. I say this subjectively, of course, but the Holy Spirit was at work in those churches. But I’m back because it seems to me that there is always an Achilles’ heel or a fatal flaw in Protestantism in general. As Catholics we have two anchors that keep us in truth, scripture and tradition. Protestantism is largely without the anchor of tradition. Because of that, “new” and therefore untrue interpretations of scripture creep in. All this to say, OP, that the inherent flaws of Protestantism may end up motivating them to come back to the church, as it did for me.

 

[steve-b]

To the OP: I am a “revert”, born into the church, left after college, and now I’m back after many years in really good wonderful protestant evangelical churches. I had wonderful experiences in the protestant churches I went to and I really grew in my faith. I say this subjectively, of course, but the Holy Spirit was at work in those churches. But I’m back because it seems to me that there is always an Achilles’ heel or a fatal flaw in Protestantism in general. As Catholics we have two anchors that keep us in truth, scripture and tradition. Protestantism is largely without the anchor of tradition. Because of that, “new” and therefore untrue interpretations of scripture creep in. All this to say, OP, that the inherent flaws of Protestantism may end up motivating them to come back to the church, as it did for me.

I would just add

Re: The specific fatal flaw specified

As Paul clearly warned the Church of Rome

Rom 16:
17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions διχοστασίαι and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites,[b] and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

1500 yrs after Paul wrote about THAT sin, we know from who Protestantism in its beginnings clearly dissented/divided from.

The consequences for that sin?

Paul warns among a list of sins, if one dies in THAT sin, of dissensions διχοστασίαι , or any of those listed, they won’t go to heaven

Where is that in scripture?

Gal 5:
9 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissensions διχοστασίαι , party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

IOW

dissensions διχοστασίαι like the others, is a deadly sin.

Any sin that keeps one from heaven, (as in it sends one to Hell) if one dies in that sin, is deadly (Mortal).

BTW,

THAT’s where in scripture, the phrase "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation" can be pointed to

 

[annad347]

God bless those who are outside the church with Your love, mercy and grace… for only You know who they are, where they are and why they are there, only You can give them their salvation.

In the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
Amen.