H
HuMaNpUmPkIn
Guest
Why as in why can’t either way be disproved?
So you’re intolerant of perhaps “slow witted” people or people who give factually wrong answers? Why would that be?
- Status
So you’re intolerant of perhaps “slow witted” people or people who give factually wrong answers? Why would that be?
B
BayernAnhaenger
Guest
Well, because I’m an American, and I have no English blood in me (German, Irish, Polish, ftw).
And, no, it’s not slow-witted people.
2+2 = 4 ain’t too hard.
We have an obligation to instruct/teach the ignorant. It’s one of the spiritual works of mercy, if I recall correctly.
H
HuMaNpUmPkIn
Guest
I was actually asking if that’s what you’re asking why towards. But what does being American have to do with this?
There is also their side to the matter, very little excuse for it, but there are those who genuinely do not know how to count and add and for very good reasons. Although there are those that refuse to learn, and in such cases I’d be more inclined to lean towards your way of thinking. To show mercy in such a manner though should you not offer your hand in help than to scold? I am not trying to argue here I am just trying to understand your motives for tackling such a problem in such a way
B
BayernAnhaenger
Guest
Oh, I thought you said you couldn’t prove I wasn’t the King of England. Misread ya.
M
Monica4316
Guest
Can you define tolerance?
M
Monica4316
Guest
here’s a quote…
Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the church is often labeled today as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along by every wind of teaching, looks like the only attitude acceptable to today’s standards.
Pope Benedict.
Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the church is often labeled today as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along by every wind of teaching, looks like the only attitude acceptable to today’s standards.
Pope Benedict.
C
cyberwolf001
Guest
You messed up when you mentioned abortion friend. It seems all the rules go out the window and people go into blind attack mode over it.
A better example is how some pro-life pagans are treated. I’ve actually heard some Catholics say that there that there protesting an abortion clinic was a sin!
Why because they weren’t Catholic and anything a non-Catholic does is a sin automatically. While not an official church teaching I think this is what you had in mind.
A better example is how some pro-life pagans are treated. I’ve actually heard some Catholics say that there that there protesting an abortion clinic was a sin!
Why because they weren’t Catholic and anything a non-Catholic does is a sin automatically. While not an official church teaching I think this is what you had in mind.
R
rayne89
Guest
Do you know the percentage of abortions that are performed to supposedly save the mother’s life? According to the Guttmacher Institute which is associated with the Planned Parenthood the percentage of women who cite risk to their health as the reason they sought an abortion is 2.8 percent. So 97.2 percent of the women walking into the abortion clinic are not ending their child’s life because of any risk to their health.
I have never seen a Catholic accost a woman at an abortion clinic. I have seen them praying at them. Have you actually seen a Catholic accost someone at an abortion clinic?
M
Mintaka
Guest
I believe the OP’s point is that you catch more flies with honey for bait than with vinegar. (As St. Francis de Sales said also.)
And yes, a lot of us on this forum, and elsewhere in the Catholic blogosphere, do tend to take a snappish tone. It’s a fair criticism. Nowhere does the Bible say that they’ll know we are Christians by our snark.
However, it’s fair to say that a lot of us on this forum are “geeky”, and that from the dawn of the Internet, geeks and nerds have often adopted a snappish tone to each other when correcting each other on matters of fact or disputing opinions. I’ve seen much nastier tones adopted (and with far more elaborate insults) about grammar and spelling errors on Usenet than I’ve ever seen on this forum. (Of course, anything that nasty here probably got the poster banned.)
And the strange thing is that a good deal of the merely snappish (as opposed to the insults of a flamewar) was and is meant in the friendliest way. It is assumed that you desperately want to have the correct facts or the best possible information about the opposing opinion – because true nerds love learning the truth even better than being right. (And we love to be right. Hoboy, do we love it.) That insistence upon truth is probably where the snappish tone comes from – a desperate urgency to correct wrong data before it does harm.
But of course, we are not always discoursing among our fellow nerds, and must become all things to all men if we want to make a good impression (and thus efficiently distribute accurate information!) among non-geeks.
So it seems that a bit more understanding (not just tolerance) is needed from both readers and posters.
And yes, a lot of us on this forum, and elsewhere in the Catholic blogosphere, do tend to take a snappish tone. It’s a fair criticism. Nowhere does the Bible say that they’ll know we are Christians by our snark.
However, it’s fair to say that a lot of us on this forum are “geeky”, and that from the dawn of the Internet, geeks and nerds have often adopted a snappish tone to each other when correcting each other on matters of fact or disputing opinions. I’ve seen much nastier tones adopted (and with far more elaborate insults) about grammar and spelling errors on Usenet than I’ve ever seen on this forum. (Of course, anything that nasty here probably got the poster banned.)
And the strange thing is that a good deal of the merely snappish (as opposed to the insults of a flamewar) was and is meant in the friendliest way. It is assumed that you desperately want to have the correct facts or the best possible information about the opposing opinion – because true nerds love learning the truth even better than being right. (And we love to be right. Hoboy, do we love it.) That insistence upon truth is probably where the snappish tone comes from – a desperate urgency to correct wrong data before it does harm.
But of course, we are not always discoursing among our fellow nerds, and must become all things to all men if we want to make a good impression (and thus efficiently distribute accurate information!) among non-geeks.
So it seems that a bit more understanding (not just tolerance) is needed from both readers and posters.
H
HuMaNpUmPkIn
Guest
Yes, I’ve seen it a couple of times, and I also understand that very few are done due to life threatening pregnancies, but they happen nonetheless. Many do it to avoid childbirth, some because the baby is the product of rape, etc.
@Cyberwolf001, thank you for a much better example I was half asleep when I thought up mine
Also, Mintaka is right, that was merely my point, and asking if there was any reason for it. Many people on this thread have helped me understand and Mintaka fully cleared things up for me. Thank you everyone
R
rayne89
Guest
Those that do it because the child is a product of rape is 1%, even less than health issues.
H
HuMaNpUmPkIn
Guest
I understand that as well, but the cases still exist, thus giving rise to the grey area i mentioned earlier.
R
rayne89
Guest
There is no gray area. The child in the womb is a human being. We don’t murder innocent human beings because their fathers are rapists or their mothers have health problems.
I am an adopted child, I could give a rat’s behind if my biological father is rapist or if my mother was a prostitute for that matter. I hope they’re not but it doesn’t change who I am, and it doesn’t make my less worthy of life than any others.
I have a very serious cardiac condition that would make another pregnancy fatal for me. I am doing my best to follow natural family planning as the church allows but if by the very small chance that I get pregnant I do not have right to murder my child because of my poor health.
We aren’t allowed murder innocent children because they are a burden anymore than we are allowed to murder elderly people because they’re a burden.
There is nothing gray about killing children. I realize this was not your original question but there are reasons why we Catholics have strong beliefs. Honestly I have never seen a Catholic act maliciously at an abortion clinic and certainly the Catholic pro-life movement does not promote that type of behavior. But we also have to be clear that there is no moral gray area here.
I am an adopted child, I could give a rat’s behind if my biological father is rapist or if my mother was a prostitute for that matter. I hope they’re not but it doesn’t change who I am, and it doesn’t make my less worthy of life than any others.
I have a very serious cardiac condition that would make another pregnancy fatal for me. I am doing my best to follow natural family planning as the church allows but if by the very small chance that I get pregnant I do not have right to murder my child because of my poor health.
We aren’t allowed murder innocent children because they are a burden anymore than we are allowed to murder elderly people because they’re a burden.
There is nothing gray about killing children. I realize this was not your original question but there are reasons why we Catholics have strong beliefs. Honestly I have never seen a Catholic act maliciously at an abortion clinic and certainly the Catholic pro-life movement does not promote that type of behavior. But we also have to be clear that there is no moral gray area here.
H
HuMaNpUmPkIn
Guest
Rayne, I understand, respect and agree with your opinion, and I know Catholicism does not promote that, but it happens and I wondered why.
The truth is though, no side in this debate has the proof they need to be right without a doubt. My personal opinion is whether life begins at conception, birth, or somewhere in between, it will one day be a human and therefore deserves to be allowed to become one, but then again this is not about my opinion. You may see no grey area, but to look at it from all sides is always necessary and you will see the grey area I mentioned.
W
wgholland
Guest
I might pipe in here and say that I do get offended when someone tries to tell me what I or the Church believes. Either they’ve heard it from someone disgruntled and has left the Church or from someone who knows nothing abt Catholicism anyway.
I myself have a great deal of compassion for those involved with that facet of our culture of death. There are doctors, nurses, admin people, the whole bunch…the fullness of truth is held within the Catholic Church from the time of the Early Church Fathers. So that is a good place to start your search for where possibly our truth comes from. It comes from the succession of the Popes from the time of Peter as our first.
There is nothing to be said for tolerance in my mind that upholds immoral or sinful behavior as someone else points out. While I am a Christian, I am called actually to dislike the things the Lord himself has distaste for, and that would be a violation of life from the time of Cain and Abel. There are things the Lord hates, he always loves us, but sin he does not tolerate. I think it is an instrument of the devil to believe that things such as these should be tolerated. It is our politically correctness that desires tolerance so that we should put up with these affronts to our Lord. I am not suggesting persecuting them, that is God’s ultimate job, but I don’t need to say it is good. The job of the devil, the enemy, is to take things that are sinful and paint them as harmless or benign. Many people in our passionate quest to be heard can seem intolerant, when we are just trying to get through.
I should and do love my fellow brother, but it is also my job as a Christian to point out their lacking so as to enable them to grow in faith and goodness. If I do not admonish them, then I become complicit in their sin.
I hope that was useful…think you got off on one topic and stayed while your question was more broad based.
Our truth with spiritual references and ties can be found in our Catechism, this was a life-long work of Pope John Paul the Great and it is fabulous. You can score one for yourself if you want to seek more abt where and what the fullness of truth is. While there is truth in other Christain sects, our is the fullness because it includes the sacraments given to us by Christ…that is why we hold ours as the fullness of the truth.
I myself have a great deal of compassion for those involved with that facet of our culture of death. There are doctors, nurses, admin people, the whole bunch…the fullness of truth is held within the Catholic Church from the time of the Early Church Fathers. So that is a good place to start your search for where possibly our truth comes from. It comes from the succession of the Popes from the time of Peter as our first.
There is nothing to be said for tolerance in my mind that upholds immoral or sinful behavior as someone else points out. While I am a Christian, I am called actually to dislike the things the Lord himself has distaste for, and that would be a violation of life from the time of Cain and Abel. There are things the Lord hates, he always loves us, but sin he does not tolerate. I think it is an instrument of the devil to believe that things such as these should be tolerated. It is our politically correctness that desires tolerance so that we should put up with these affronts to our Lord. I am not suggesting persecuting them, that is God’s ultimate job, but I don’t need to say it is good. The job of the devil, the enemy, is to take things that are sinful and paint them as harmless or benign. Many people in our passionate quest to be heard can seem intolerant, when we are just trying to get through.
I should and do love my fellow brother, but it is also my job as a Christian to point out their lacking so as to enable them to grow in faith and goodness. If I do not admonish them, then I become complicit in their sin.
I hope that was useful…think you got off on one topic and stayed while your question was more broad based.
Our truth with spiritual references and ties can be found in our Catechism, this was a life-long work of Pope John Paul the Great and it is fabulous. You can score one for yourself if you want to seek more abt where and what the fullness of truth is. While there is truth in other Christain sects, our is the fullness because it includes the sacraments given to us by Christ…that is why we hold ours as the fullness of the truth.
H
HuMaNpUmPkIn
Guest
Thank you, I understand perfectly now. Also, my tolerance stems not from political correctness but from my belief that all are children of god and as such all deserve to be forgiven, especially those who do not understand they have done wrong. I understand as much as I possibly can about this now thanks to you and many of the others with constructive points, but being from a different sect of Christianity I of course can never fully understand your beliefs.
Also, I’m not sure if this is what you were trying to say or not, just how I interpreted it and I apologize if I interpreted wrongly, I did not mean to tell you yours or the church’s beliefs or practices, just what I have observed, and merely meant to find the beliefs behind that, which many people in this thread have shown me. I thank you greatly for your help in educating me in this subject, as well as everybody else. I am very grateful that you have all taken the time to point out your beliefs no matter what the tones and intentions may have been.
And yes, unfortunately this did get a little sidetracked and single-focused, and I thank some of you who looked at the original post and answered the original question as opposed to the question put forth by the example.
Once more I am grateful to everyone who has taken the time to reply to this, and unreservedly apologize for not conveying it clearer to those who have misinterpreted this thread’s purpose, and to those who may also possibly misinterpret it.
I have boundless respect for all beliefs, and all believers of those beliefs, and also respect their actions as long as they are not performed with selfish, sinful or otherwise dark intentions, and I do not wish to cause anyone to view me with disdain. Once more I apologize to anyone I may have upset.
W
wgholland
Guest
Never heard a tone, so sorry if one came out of me…we will see you in the Church Triumphant I suspect!!
H
HuMaNpUmPkIn
Guest
Maybe so, it all depends on where god and life lead me in the future
- Status