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coptic_believer
Guest
Do Catholics believe that Muslims worship the same God as Catholics?
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DavidFilmer
Guest
NO, not by any stretch of the imagination… There are many significant DIFFERENCES (which is the opposite of SAMEness). For example, the Catholic idea of “God” is Trinity; this is a core part of our understanding of what “God” means. To a Muslim, this is heresy.
We cannot, therefore, consider ourselves to worship the SAME God, because our understanding of the nature of God is radically DIFFERENT. What is ‘different’ cannot also be the ‘same.’
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thistle
Guest
I believe that Mohammed is the anti-Christ.
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Ghosty
Guest
I believe that they worship the same God only insofar as they worship the God of Abraham. They claim to worship Abraham’s God, so I give them that much, but I absolutely do NOT believe they’ve received any special revelation from God. Rather I consider them to be “righteous pagans” at best, namely people who honor God, but who do not understand Him, not unlike people who worship a thunderstorm.
Insofar as they worship ideas that are not of God, I consider them very, very much in error. In other words I do NOT consider them to be followers of God, even if they worship the same Being we do.
Peace and God bless!
Insofar as they worship ideas that are not of God, I consider them very, very much in error. In other words I do NOT consider them to be followers of God, even if they worship the same Being we do.
Peace and God bless!
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coptic_believer
Guest
I also believe that Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God.
But the following Protestant articles states
"According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.” This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not adore the same God. In order to provide sufficient context for the quote from the Catechism, I have cited 2 paragraphs before and after paragraph 841.
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841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
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Obviously, the Muslims do not adore the one true merciful God because they serve a false god. They deny the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Quite simply, they deny the true God and are not capable of adoring the true God as long as they hold to the false teachings of Islam. Therefore the paragraph in the CCC cannot be correct."
( excerpted from carm.org/catholic/muslims.htm )
What would you respond to this? Please note, I am not trying to attack Catholics or the Catholic catechism. I am only seeking an explantion of this section of the Catholic Catechism. How do you explain it if Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians (Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants)? Also, how do Catholics view the Catholic Catechism? Are they allowed to disagree with it or is it seen as infallible?
But the following Protestant articles states
"According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, Muslims together with the Catholics, “adore the one, merciful God.” This cannot be true. The Muslims and Catholics do not adore the same God. In order to provide sufficient context for the quote from the Catechism, I have cited 2 paragraphs before and after paragraph 841.
…
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
…
Obviously, the Muslims do not adore the one true merciful God because they serve a false god. They deny the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Quite simply, they deny the true God and are not capable of adoring the true God as long as they hold to the false teachings of Islam. Therefore the paragraph in the CCC cannot be correct."
( excerpted from carm.org/catholic/muslims.htm )
What would you respond to this? Please note, I am not trying to attack Catholics or the Catholic catechism. I am only seeking an explantion of this section of the Catholic Catechism. How do you explain it if Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians (Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants)? Also, how do Catholics view the Catholic Catechism? Are they allowed to disagree with it or is it seen as infallible?
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Kristina_P
Guest
I think it’s possible to say that, inasmuch as Muslims worship the almighty Creator God of the universe, God of Abraham, they worship the same God we do. Denying certain aspects of Him, like His existence as the Trinity, is not the same as denying Him altogether. The Jews deny the Trinity, as well, and yet we say we worship the same God. It is sad that these two groups deny the truth that Jesus revealed, but it does not mean that they worship other gods.
As far as whether or not the Catechism is held to be infallible, I don’t think it is, although it contains many infallible teachings. Someone more knowledgeable than I could give a more definitive answer.
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Kristina_P
Guest
I disagree with the implication that our beliefs about God influence God Himself. The Muslims worship the one, true God, the God of Abraham. The fact that they believe wrong things about Him doesn’t mean that they’re suddenly now worshiping a false god. It isn’t as though they set out to worship a god of grain or a god of war or an idol they created. They set out to worship the true God but do not fully understand Him, much like a pre-Christian person seeking the true God but knowing nothing of the gospel. The difference is that they persist in their error. This is sin, but it doesn’t affect which God they’re trying to adore.
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RyanL
Guest
We all see God through a dark glass…theirs is simply darker than ours. It’s no different than the Jews not believing the Trinity, but still worshiping the same God, or even some of the ancient Greeks:
That said, it is our mission to help others to understand God as He has revealed Himself to us (Matt 28:19-20). We may not sit by and let others linger in their ignorance of Him.
God Bless,
RyanL
St. Paul knew this to be true: God is God; we should not claim He is different simply because He is understood differently. We may say He is different if He is called many (polytheist) or simply a ‘good-will force’ which permiates and is everything (pantheist), but we cannot say that He is a different god if He is acknowledged as the One Creator of Everything.
That said, it is our mission to help others to understand God as He has revealed Himself to us (Matt 28:19-20). We may not sit by and let others linger in their ignorance of Him.
God Bless,
RyanL
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coptic_believer
Guest
I found this article “What the Catholic Church actually said about Islam at the Second Vatican Council in 1964 and 1965”
answering-islam.org.uk/Hoaxes/vatican2.html which in case anyone was interested
answering-islam.org.uk/Hoaxes/vatican2.html which in case anyone was interested
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thistle
Guest
Why does it have “hoaxes” in the website name?
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Subrosa
Guest
I hate to break the news to you, Dave, but have you read the Catechism lately?
**841 **The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm
They just don’t see things the same way as Christians.
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Subrosa
Guest
I would say that they do not balspheme God. They simply have an inaccurate understanding of Him
It is not taken as an attack, only an inquiry.
Again, only a different understanding. You see, all spirituality seeks God. If you take shamanism, for example, the shamans seek spiritual ties to thier ancestors. In Catholicism, we have communion with saints. These are similar concepts. However, the shamans do not posess the whole truth revealed to them They have no knowledge of Jesus in many cases. As Catholics, we are compelled to believe that God would not abandon these people for a mistake.
The dogma’s contained within the Catechism are infallable. All else are guidelines in practice of the faith. Much of what is contained in the Catechism is tradition that has been handed down, so it pretty much contains the correct practice of the faith. It has been well gone over!
Subrosa
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coptic_believer
Guest
Because some Muslims have stated wrong things regarding what the Catholic Church actually said about Islam
at the Second Vatican Council in 1964 and 1965
For example "One can hear from some Muslims comments like:
Even the Roman Catholic Church in the document of the Second Vatican Council accepted Quran as a God’s book and Muslims as fellow-worshipers of the God of Abraham."
This article refutes these Muslim comments (hoaxes).
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Reformed_Rob
Guest
Hi!!
You know, it’s interesting, because just yesterday (Friday) I was listening to a Christian radio station, and they were playing a talk by a former Muslim who converted to Christianity. Also, some of his family converted as well. He was not just a nominal muslim, he described himself as a good devout muslim.
Anyways, he touched on the subject of how **no knowledgeable Muslim in his right mind would ever say that Christians worship the same God as they do!! **To the Muslim, equating their God (Allah) with the Christian God would be blasphemous.
That doesn’t mean that they’re right, but I’d posit that Muslims worship the one true God to approximately the same extent that Arians, “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” and Oneness Pentecostals worship the one true God.
You know, it’s interesting, because just yesterday (Friday) I was listening to a Christian radio station, and they were playing a talk by a former Muslim who converted to Christianity. Also, some of his family converted as well. He was not just a nominal muslim, he described himself as a good devout muslim.
Anyways, he touched on the subject of how **no knowledgeable Muslim in his right mind would ever say that Christians worship the same God as they do!! **To the Muslim, equating their God (Allah) with the Christian God would be blasphemous.
That doesn’t mean that they’re right, but I’d posit that Muslims worship the one true God to approximately the same extent that Arians, “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” and Oneness Pentecostals worship the one true God.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Coptic,
I believe that the key word to understanding this Catechism is the word “profess”. Once you understand that we only believe that they profess to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then you can understand the true Catholic teaching. We do not have to believe that Moslems worship our God, just that they profess to (they do). I don’t think your Pope would have met with ours if he thought that we believed Moslems worshiped the same God.
I believe that the key word to understanding this Catechism is the word “profess”. Once you understand that we only believe that they profess to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then you can understand the true Catholic teaching. We do not have to believe that Moslems worship our God, just that they profess to (they do). I don’t think your Pope would have met with ours if he thought that we believed Moslems worshiped the same God.
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Reformed_Rob
Guest
Personally, and this is just from my reading of pertinent speeches, documents, and such that it is perhaps more of an ontological question.
The fact that the Muslims are monotheistic lends them to have closer ties with Christianity than, say, Hindus. The Islamic dogmas about “Who” God is and “What” He is like are obviously different from the Christian dogmas.
However, they do recognize the fact that there is only one true God. It seems that Catholic thought is willing to recognize the inherent desire in people (most people?) to worship a divine being. The differences are many between the Christian and Islamic view of God, but there is still that “reaching out” that humans do in response to God’s creating us in His image and attesting to His existence by so many ways in the world.
If any Christian were to believe that God is the particular Divine Being that the Muslims define Him as, that person would no longer be a Christian. No doubt about it. But would that mean that that person is now an atheist and doesn’t believe in God? I think not.
The fact that the Muslims are monotheistic lends them to have closer ties with Christianity than, say, Hindus. The Islamic dogmas about “Who” God is and “What” He is like are obviously different from the Christian dogmas.
However, they do recognize the fact that there is only one true God. It seems that Catholic thought is willing to recognize the inherent desire in people (most people?) to worship a divine being. The differences are many between the Christian and Islamic view of God, but there is still that “reaching out” that humans do in response to God’s creating us in His image and attesting to His existence by so many ways in the world.
If any Christian were to believe that God is the particular Divine Being that the Muslims define Him as, that person would no longer be a Christian. No doubt about it. But would that mean that that person is now an atheist and doesn’t believe in God? I think not.
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Rachel_Malloy
Guest
This thread is now closed.
There is another thread speaking of this topic.
There is another thread speaking of this topic.
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