Catholic bishop: I changed from Democrat to Republican after ‘awful’ 2012 Democratic Convention

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Ender said:
The problem I see with the bishop’s action is that is more likely to be perceived as a political stand than a moral one. If he wants to make a moral point he needs to address the problem of prominent people acting immorally; that point is not made by criticizing politicians for making bad political choices.

He already has the proper means of making that point which requires nothing more of him than to follow canon law and deny communion to those who “obstinately persevere in manifest grave sin.” Had he done that as a Democrat his action would have been seen in its proper perspective as fulfilling his moral obligation. If he does it now it will be seen (and surely portrayed) as nothing more than political payback.

Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good. Leo XIII

Just so. Your signature line identifies the problem.

Ender
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Yes, perceptions will go where they will. The more I think about it (and perhaps a re-read of the initial article and updates on further developments are in order for me too), it looks like the Bishop was making a private statement to a Young Republicans group and it got picked up and published – giving the Bishop’s decision more notice than maybe he’d intended.

It is good to note that the Bishop also attempted to speak with Democrats like the “self identified Catholic” Patrick Kennedy from time to time – so that it seems he ministers to everyone (which is very proper).

Not sure I agree with you on the perception of “political payback” yet, his counter-dilemma would be – making the same sort of stand while being a Democrat and being perceived as a hypocrite because, e.g.
" … he MUST know that that party has enshrined “abortion as a right” in its National Conventions for years - yet he’s a member of that group. Why does HE take communion? He’s prolife? Why do I know he is a member of a “self proclaimed” right to abortion organization?"
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From the info it looks like he was working hard from within the party to change its course to a more moral one - but at a certain point leaving became:
  • less a case of “abandoning the field” to the leadership group that seems to have the party opposing one Catholic teaching after another - and lately the Church’s ability to teach the Gospel in place after place; than
  • Showing the importance of visible leadership through a tangible action that clearly conveys to the sheep who might be following the shepherd - “this is not the way”.
Call me cynical, but I don’t expect to hear much outreach to Bishop Tobin from the party.
I sometimes think a dialogue with America’s “self proclaimed” enemies might demonstrate more give-and-take negotiations than a Democratic Leader would show to a Catholic Bishop defending his faith and counseling them.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Why does Republican have to be the only other option? If more people would dare think outside the current corrupt process there might be some hope of a better democracy.
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I agree.

An ‘either or’ system, just fosters complacency amongst politicians. They just assume that they have their large proportion of voters who will vote for them, come what may, and they are only interested in appealing to marginal seats and swinging voters. The greater the number of choices that voters have, the less certain it becomes, and the harder politicians have to work for everyone’s vote, not just confine themselves to appealing a few marginal seats

It would also mean that politicians would have to be careful to keep to their word, as there will be alternative parties that their voters could turn to if the don’t. It also means politicians having to compromise and work with other parties in coalition, which would temper extremism on both sides.

A two-party system is just too easy for politicians, and they are held less accountable as a result.
 
ncregister.com/daily-news/bishop-thomas-tobin-why-i-switched-to-the-republican-party/

Bishop Thomas Tobin: Why I Switched to the Republican Party
The shepherd of Providence, R.I., believes that his baptismal certificate is more important than partisan political loyalties.

by JOAN FRAWLEY DESMOND
Desmond/NCR: Some national Republican leaders have signaled that it is time to retreat from the party’s opposition to same-sex “marriage.” They argue that the policy has turned off young voters. Meanwhile, libertarian values have become increasingly important. Does this concern you?
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**Bishop Tobin: **We have to remind people that, in these cultural battles, moral issues are central. Our discussion of public life has to transcend purely economic and budgetary questions. Other issues — abortion, right to life, the nature of marriage, the obligations of family life — are important, and we should not discount them.
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I told the Young Republican group: “You have to believe in something, and you need to be faithful to what you believe. You need to have moral courage, even if it contradicts public opinion polls.” They need to be profiles in courage, and that is something I find sadly lacking in most of our political leaders these days.
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This is a follow up on the original story.

On a side note, this is old school journalism (magazine style). Ask an incisive question, dutifully report the interviewees answer.

Much of what we’ve speculated about is answered here by Bishop Tobin himself - and the
new information unearthed by the writer’s journalistic probe is quite illuminating. Not just a
deeper look at Bishop Tobin, but information on how both parties seem to be swept away by a tide of social issues propelled by an insistent media.

In Tobin’s Rhode Island, which is heavily Democratic per party registration, the state’s Republican leaders (in a caucus) also voted unanimously for a “same sex marriage” proposal. So his days of being a leaven in his party seem to be far from over.

In order to be clearer about his public move, Bishop Tobin did this:
I have had to remind myself and other members of the Church that we need to do our best to preach the Gospel of Christ and be the salt of the earth — even when it’s discouraging. That is our mission and task. That is why I held up my baptismal certificate. My baptismal certificate represents my ultimate affiliation, not my party affiliation.
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2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingly power:

2 ***proclaim the word; be persistent whether it is convenient or inconvenient; convince, reprimand, encourage through all patience and teaching.
3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers

4 and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.

5 But you, be self-possessed in all circumstances; put up with hardship; perform the work of an evangelist; fulfill your ministry.

:highprayer::crossrc:
 
http://www.bishoptobin.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/kthosignbanner11.jpg

A little further news on Bishop Tobin:

Profits from the sale of his latest book,

"Effective Faith: Faith that Makes Difference"

go toward helping some charities in his Diocese (Providence, RI).

http://www.bishoptobin.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/immigrationpresser4791.jpg

Hear Bishop Tobin speak:

bishoptobin.org/bishopcast/

Why Do We Pray
View from the Back of the Ambulance
“Is an easy church, devoid of any moral imperatives or challenge, being faithful to its mission? Is it contributing anything of value to the moral well-being of the world?” asks Bishop Thomas J. Tobin.
“The fact is, we do no one a favor if we water-down or minimize the hard teachings of Christ and his church in a vain attempt to make them more palatable to modern taste,” he said in response to his own questions, posed during a June 8 address at the Portsmouth Institute’s “Catholicism and the American Experience” conference. – (Bishop Tobin)
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The bishop’s remarks carry added significance given the fact that the state Legislature last month legalized same-sex marriage in Rhode Island despite strong church opposition.
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thericatholic.com/news/detail.html?sub_id=5902
 
“It is not merciful to affirm people in their sins. That is the least merciful thing I can think of …”
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– Fr. William Casey quote on the program “What Every Catholic Needs To Know”. The episode about hell.
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youtube.com/watch?v=UUXhtFi4Aog&list=PLC1F01E6F19BDD7F3&index=1

Saw this on EWTN today and thought of this thread. Can’t say it was Bishop Tobin’s main motivation for what he did, but giving a false impression through how we present ourselves can be important.

If a priest were seen coming out of a theatre playing an R-rated movie (or worse) … whatever his reasons were … it might easily be seen by another as a “this is completely fine, Father does it …” justification for putting themselves in the way of temptation on purpose. :eek:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Ender said:
It is not a question of having to choose between following your conscience or compromising it. The belief that there is a possibility of an ideal party is no more realistic than believing in unicorns. There could never be a “Catholic” party for the simple reason that the church advocates no positions on most political issues. You can be for or against raising the minimum wage, for or against building a fence at the border, for or against nationalized health care and not violate any church doctrines.

There are only a handful of issues that actually involve moral choices and on those the church has clear doctrines. As it happens the Democrat party is lined up on the wrong side of all those issues but on all the other issues neither the Democrats nor the Republicans (nor any conceivable third party) could be considered to be in line with church teaching because there are no teachings to line up with.

The church provides objectives: feed the hungry, but she does not specify how that should be done. Food stamps? Agricultural subsidies? We are not only free to choose what we think is best but we are positively obligated to do so.

Ender
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👍
 
Sen. Ted Cruz says he will fight “with every breath” to stop the health care overhaul, even if it means shutting down segments of the federal government. That approach, warns former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, is “quite dicey” politically for Republicans.

On one side of the health care fight are Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., Texas’ Cruz and others who say they are standing on principle and willing to oppose the law at all costs.

On the other side are those taking what they call a pragmatic approach by accepting the law, if grudgingly, and moving on. Holding that view are New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who says that shutting down the government would violate the public trust.

news.yahoo.com/
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Sen. Ted Cruz says he will fight “with every breath” to stop the health care overhaul, even if it means shutting down segments of the federal government. That approach, warns former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, is “quite dicey” politically for Republicans.

On one side of the health care fight are Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., Texas’ Cruz and others who say they are standing on principle and willing to oppose the law at all costs.

On the other side are those taking what they call a pragmatic approach by accepting the law, if grudgingly, and moving on. Holding that view are New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who says that shutting down the government would violate the public trust.

news.yahoo.com/
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The public trust has already been violated multiple times by this administration.

It’s long past time to draw the line.
 
CaptFun said:
youtube.com/watch?v=UUXhtFi4Aog&list=PLC1F01E6F19BDD7F3&index=1
If a priest were seen coming out of a theatre playing an R-rated movie (or worse) … whatever his reasons were … it might easily be seen by another as a “this is completely fine, Father does it …” justification for putting themselves in the way of temptation on purpose. :eek:
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Like if a priest came out of a theater playing the R-Rated The Passion of the Christ then others may do the same.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
So you are for shutting down the government for the sake of a symbolic act?
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The federal government is a huge lumbering beast and getting bigger thanks to Democrats whose hope is in big government and big science. If the fat isn’t cut, it won’t be long until the federal government’s mandated health care system implants computer chips in newborns and given a “Unique Health Identifier” (UHI). All information will go into the federal database. Probably the new classified purpose federal multi-billion dollar computer database going up in Utah, the Utah Data Center, run by the NSA. Shut some of the federal government down I say.
 
Mike_tn said:
The federal government is a huge lumbering beast and getting bigger thanks to Democrats whose hope is in big government and big science.
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“Deficits don’t matter.” Reagan proved it and Cheney said it.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
So you are for shutting down the government for the sake of a symbolic act?
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How is it a symbolic act? Voting to defund numerous times with no meaningful outcome is a symbolic act. If the House believes this is too dangerous for America’s economic and health care future, they have every right and should do this. They may believe the ACA is more damaging than a temporary shutdown, and I would agree. If Obama or the Senate don’t want to shut down the government, they can pass the budget.

They are just as much at fault if we shut down as the House.
 
ProVobis said:
“Deficits don’t matter.” Reagan proved it and Cheney said it.
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Admittedly the problem mentioned is primarily a Washington D.C. problem and not party rooted, but Democrats are traditionally the worst of the two. I could add to the “Republicans are just as bad” view, for instance regarding the opening post, Republicans get re-elected on the pro-life platform and do little to fix the problem once there. Democrats don’t even try to hide it though, they think it’s all great stuff. Rather the problem is the super sized Federal Government and its innate intent is to control absolutely everything. That’s all it does. Because of its size it’s more like a beast with no mind, more of a machine on auto-pilot. How events pan out exactly is not important either. They might not implant chips in people, that may not be needed to control citizens. God warned the Jews many times about not getting too big as a nation, to not even want a king, not accumulate too much gold etc. But they got huge under Solomon and went into exile. They became slaves. Slavery is coming under the auspices of the US Government.
 
Julian_Bashir said:
How is it a symbolic act? Voting to defund numerous times with no meaningful outcome is a symbolic act. If the House believes this is too dangerous for America’s economic and health care future, they have every right and should do this. They may believe the ACA is more damaging than a temporary shutdown, and I would agree. If Obama or the Senate don’t want to shut down the government, they can pass the budget.

They are just as much at fault if we shut down as the House.
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Regarding the shutdown, I’m surprised we haven’t heard mention of the $1 trillion (or any other denomination thereof) platinum coin again. Doesn’t add to the debt and all bills are paid.
 
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