"Catholic" By title, driving me nuts!

[Stylites]

I am just writing the exact word he told our whole school during childrens mass. That is the phrase he uses. But this is not the first time I have heard Catholic say it is just a bunch of stories. Maybe this priest used the wrong phrase. It did not sit right with the congregation and regular priest.

If it were a children’s Mass then calling Scriptures ‘a bunch of stories’ could have been appropriate for their age group, since children enjoy stories and Scriptures are really stories, without any connotation of whether they are make-believe or real-life. A Catholic university professor saying Scriptures are ‘a bunch of stories’ would be a problem. Maybe invite the priest to come and give his side of the . . . story.

 

[JillianRose]

Reminds me a lot of a priest’s rant that was on newadvent recently: reverendknow-it-all.blogspot.com/2012/06/we-are-starting-over.html?showComment=1340343440498:

I have to agree, knowing the students who attended the nearby Catholic school while I attended a nearby public school, I didn’t really see the benefit. Not sure how that applies to your situation. Best of luck, in any case.

Thats exactly how I feel. Except in the hood I live in we have rich doctors/lawyers who send their nanny’s to parent events at our school.

 

[Journey322]

Hello wonderful friends:

I need your help. I am trying really really hard to learn more about our Catholic faith. I study our Bible, read our Catechism and recently learning more about our Saints. What I am trying to find are other Catholics like me. I do not want myself or my children to be Catholic by “title” only. To me it is more then a title. Lately I feel alone. So far these are the people I have met at my sons school. It is making me question why I am even paying for a religious education.

1. Two parent that are Catholic, don’t practice, and told me that you don’t need Jesus to be saved. That the Catholic Church is wrong. They also said that the Bible is just stories
2. Two Lutherans who don’t want to talk about religion, they just like the school. They don’t want to go to our local Lutheran Church because they are “hillbilly’s”. (according to them)
3. One set of parents that one is Catholic and one is faithless. Don’t pray, don’t go to church, buy their children what ever they want.
4. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don’t read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

The list goes on and on. This scares me. I don’t know what to do. I feel sad. I can’t even share my faith. It also bugs me that I am paying for my child to go to a school that is mostly being used as a private school.

With all this secular propaganda always being shoved down our throats, I should be able to share our faith at our own Catholic School and church.

People know more why the own a Lexus, Mercedes, ford, Chevy, Nissan etc, then why they are Catholic.

I don’t know why I should stay anymore. Why!! Why do I have to defend the Catholic Faith to other Catholics…AHAHAAHHAAHAHAHH!!!

It sounds as if you are being awfully critical of others because they are at a different place spriritually. Why not focus on serving as a *non-judgmental *leader or example to those who may be weaker in the faith, rather than a judge?

 

[Journey322]

I don’t understand why you are playing devils advocate. I am asking fellow Catholics how I should handle this. Not to be patronized by someone who is obviously too smart to understand a question of this caliber. I have read your other threads and I don’t even know why you care to bother with my question that is a matter of the heart. You are very smart and should understand how I feel since you have the same kind of questions regarding Apologetics and there patience of answering incessant questions by non catholics.

There is a difference between showing people Charity and allowing Ignorance. Once they start speaking false truths of the Church or “Use” our school to do something with their children that they lack as parents, is unacceptable. We are Catholic, We have the Truth and if we doing it in a loving matter We should be proud of that truth. I am sick of being tolerant of non-tolerant people.

Wow! I didn’t think that post was patronizing at all. Besides, when you say you were “asking other Catholics how you should handle this” what do you mean exactly? You can only choose your own behavior and attitude. You can pray, serve as a living example of God’s love, compassion, forgiveness, etc. You could also meet with your priest to see if there is somewhere within your parish where you could serve (RCIA or whatever).

I have to say, however, as I did in my previous post…it does sound as if you are being a bit too critical of others who are in a different place spiritually. If you are going to help them, you will have to be able to set that aside.

 

[kmuestwin]

Hello wonderful friends:

I need your help. I am trying really really hard to learn more about our Catholic faith. I study our Bible, read our Catechism and recently learning more about our Saints. What I am trying to find are other Catholics like me. I do not want myself or my children to be Catholic by “title” only. To me it is more then a title. Lately I feel alone. So far these are the people I have met at my sons school. It is making me question why I am even paying for a religious education.

1. Two parent that are Catholic, don’t practice, and told me that you don’t need Jesus to be saved. That the Catholic Church is wrong. They also said that the Bible is just stories
2. Two Lutherans who don’t want to talk about religion, they just like the school. They don’t want to go to our local Lutheran Church because they are “hillbilly’s”. (according to them)
3. One set of parents that one is Catholic and one is faithless. Don’t pray, don’t go to church, buy their children what ever they want.
4. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don’t read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

The list goes on and on. This scares me. I don’t know what to do. I feel sad. I can’t even share my faith. It also bugs me that I am paying for my child to go to a school that is mostly being used as a private school.

With all this secular propaganda always being shoved down our throats, I should be able to share our faith at our own Catholic School and church.

People know more why the own a Lexus, Mercedes, ford, Chevy, Nissan etc, then why they are Catholic.

I don’t know why I should stay anymore. Why!! Why do I have to defend the Catholic Faith to other Catholics…AHAHAAHHAAHAHAHH!!!

Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

We are all “Catholic by title” whenever we sin. Everyone falls short.

Praying for these people is the best thing you can do.

 

[drfye]

.

1. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don’t read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

I think that is the catagory I mainly fall into which is one of the reasons I joined this forum. I went to a catholic grade school and high school in Ontario, Canada which is different from the US with one of the main reasons being that catholic schools in this province are funded by the government.
here is something i said in a different thread:

wow, thats pretty accurate to my experience in catholic grade school and high scool, I’ve never even held ,let alone read the catechism before. Outside of a few sunday school clases as a kid when I was going through the sacrements and those high school religion classes I Really didn’t / don’t know all that much about catholicism. It was only recently now in college at age 21 with some renewed interest in the faith that I learned how to pray the rosary. I ran into a couple people who I knew from high school, we started having a conversation and one them mentioned faith, they were/are under the impression that the church is against evolution and these were people who had gone to a catholic high school( some of whom had gone to the same high school as me). So yes it would seem that , at least in parts of ontario, there is a disconnect between catholic school and catholicism.

my parents are not all that religious so after I had been confirmed going to mass slowly just became non existent ,if it wasn’t already by that time. As a teenager it was seen as simply not all that important and in high school religion class simply bacame a credit you had to get. The religion classes themselves for the most part ( at least as i remember them) were really more about morality then theology or church histoy, we opened a bible once in a while and read a couple passages but nothing really indepth. There was one religion teacher I had who taught “world religions” that kind of started to get me more interested in learning about the faith but nothing really came of it until a few years later when i was in college and was doing a course on violence which potrayed the chuch’s history in my country in not exactly the best light, which again got me curious…long story short a few month ago i started seeing videos on youtube and other sites of catholic answers live which led me to catholic answes.com, videos of Fr.Baron, and eventually this forum.

I think at the end of the day a lot if not most of the knowlege kids have of the faith will be because of the parents and how much the parents know about it.

 

[JRKH]

You can and should be proud, even if others don’t agree with you.

While I do not disagree with the sentiment behind this statement, it seems that “proud” might not be the best word to use…since “Pride” is one of the capital sins.
Perhaps a better “deeply and truly humbled” to be a Catholic.
Just a thought…

The priest you mentioned, is he part of that school? If the teaching isn’t solidly Catholic, you should consider sending your kids elsewhere.

Complete agreement here. just because it says it’s “Catholic” does not mean it’s teaching is orthodox.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Dear one,
Let us begin at Love which must be the touchstone of our faith.
Each person is at a different place on their journey. Some may not even be on the journey yet. They may simply be sitting on the sidelines. I agree that it is difficult and discouraging when one hears such things as you describe, but our reaction to such things can have profound effect on how we are perceived by others and consequently how effective we can be in helping them.

God tells us to treat others as we would wish to be treated. He also tells us to not permit our peace to be disturbed by various worries or the actions or responses of others. We are to trust Him who is in charge.
Most people do not like to be told they are wrong. They become very defensive and understanding ceases at that point. Instead of listening to your (name removed by moderator)ut they immediately begin to prepare a defensive response as to why you are wrong…OR they simply end any conversation at all. This is counterproductive to what you wish to achieve.
So my suggestion is that you begin by praying to God for insight on how to charitably respond to people in order to open up understanding.

As an example…Someone says that the Bible is a “bunch of stories”…Well in truth it is, but then most books are “just a bunch of stories”…Even History books. The important thing is what do these “stories contain” what lessons are we to derive, what insights do they hold for knowing how to live a life pleasing to God…
So - if someone says “it’s just a bunch of stories” instead of responding “your wrong!!!” (which is too often my error ), try to develop a response that begins with “Yes, there are a lot of stories in the bible” (a positive that gives then and their position credit and intelligence). Then go on, “But there is also a lot of history too. And most importantly there is great moral lessons from the greatest teacher the world has ever known, God Himself incarnate in Jesus Christ.”…
This way you tell them that you accept them as equals…intelligent and thoughtful people. Then you gently challenge them - sort of like Jesus did with the “rich young man” who asked what he needed to do to be saved…(Matthew 19:16-22)
Most importantly of all, you are called upon to be an example. None can effectively teach unless they are examples of that which they speak. So learn all that you can, but also pray to God to aid you in developing within yourself those virtues that will allow you to draw people toward Him - even if you do not say a single word.

On another note…You, and several others, have mentioned the catechism and the numbers of parents who have no idea what it contains. In fairness it should be noted that the schools went for some period of time without a “catechism” in use. The Baltimore Catechism remained the “official” one but after Vat II, for whatever reason, the use of it dropped off - especially for the older children. Our current Catechism has not been available all that long and I don’t know if or how many schools use it, or texts based on it. So it does not surprise me that so many adults have either never read it.

Peace
James

 

[Seeker1961]

Our local Catholic school was very rigorous and orthodox, but we still had parents who were not as committed to the faith, which led to children who were not as committed to it. The school was academically superior to the local public schools, and it was the era of school busing so many parents sent their kids to the Catholic school to keep from having them sent on an hour or more long bus ride each way to integrate the inner city schools.

The point here is-people send their children to Catholic schools for a variety of reasons-but for those who are not as committed, a good example can go a LONG way. The real trick in evangelism is to show people that you have something that they don’t have, and that they want. Leading people to Jesus means that no matter what we personally think of their actions we have to show them that Jesus loves them as they are, but He loves them too much to leave them that way. We all have to learn the best way to do that.

 

[saveusfromhell]

jillian i understand where your coming from, like others have said pray for those that you become irriated with and watch the benifits for both you and them.
see if you can obtain a copy of this book
google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=the%20wonders%20of%20the%20mass%20by%20fr%20paul%20o’sullivan&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholic-soe.org%2Fbooks05.html&ei=bETwT7rFApSFhQfBnuiEDQ&usg=AFQjCNELOn-qw2fW9GIMTqyg0uLNNNO62A
it should help

 

[JillianRose]

I have every right to judge them they have said some bad things about our faith and our lord. I will never be a liberal. Catholic that thinks just because the made their sacraments is all they have to do. I said this before if they are in a different place spiritually thats one thing but the naughty talk about our faith is wrong. I also will not tolerate apostasy. There is only one way and it the truth of Jesus Christ thru the Catholic church. I have told them about vbs, Bible study and other programs thru the church. They don’t care. Its the total disrespect against our Catholic faith that upsets me. I have never said anything to them. I am venting to u guys because you are very smart and its the only place I find others that have the same hunger.

 

[edwest2]

Hello wonderful friends:

I need your help. I am trying really really hard to learn more about our Catholic faith. I study our Bible, read our Catechism and recently learning more about our Saints. What I am trying to find are other Catholics like me. I do not want myself or my children to be Catholic by “title” only. To me it is more then a title. Lately I feel alone. So far these are the people I have met at my sons school. It is making me question why I am even paying for a religious education.

1. Two parent that are Catholic, don’t practice, and told me that you don’t need Jesus to be saved. That the Catholic Church is wrong. They also said that the Bible is just stories
2. Two Lutherans who don’t want to talk about religion, they just like the school. They don’t want to go to our local Lutheran Church because they are “hillbilly’s”. (according to them)
3. One set of parents that one is Catholic and one is faithless. Don’t pray, don’t go to church, buy their children what ever they want.
4. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don’t read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

The list goes on and on. This scares me. I don’t know what to do. I feel sad. I can’t even share my faith. It also bugs me that I am paying for my child to go to a school that is mostly being used as a private school.

With all this secular propaganda always being shoved down our throats, I should be able to share our faith at our own Catholic School and church.

People know more why the own a Lexus, Mercedes, ford, Chevy, Nissan etc, then why they are Catholic.

I don’t know why I should stay anymore. Why!! Why do I have to defend the Catholic Faith to other Catholics…AHAHAAHHAAHAHAHH!!!

Take a deep breath. Don’t be scared. I know other Catholics like that. Go to a priest, share your concerns and ask his advice.

It has taken 40 years for Catholics to be influenced to live mostly as the world does. This did not happen overnight. Please realize that. The Church needs faithful Catholics like you. No, none of us are perfect, but we are to focus on Jesus and living out our faith.

Peace,
Ed

 

[drfye]

I said this before if they are in a different place spiritually thats one thing but the **naughty talk **about our faith is wrong. I also will not tolerate apostasy. There is only one way and it the truth of Jesus Christ thru the Catholic church. I have told them about vbs, Bible study and other programs thru the church. They don’t care. Its the **total disrespect against our Catholic faith **that upsets me. I have never said anything to them. I am venting to u guys because you are very smart and its the only place I find others that have the same hunger.

wait…so it’s not just them not being as “Into” the faith as you are that upsets you, but they activly mock and ridicule catholicism in a catholic school?

 

[Zosimus41]

Hello wonderful friends:

I need your help. I am trying really really hard to learn more about our Catholic faith. I study our Bible, read our Catechism and recently learning more about our Saints. What I am trying to find are other Catholics like me. I do not want myself or my children to be Catholic by “title” only. To me it is more then a title. Lately I feel alone. So far these are the people I have met at my sons school. It is making me question why I am even paying for a religious education.

1. Two parent that are Catholic, don’t practice, and told me that you don’t need Jesus to be saved. That the Catholic Church is wrong. They also said that the Bible is just stories
2. Two Lutherans who don’t want to talk about religion, they just like the school. They don’t want to go to our local Lutheran Church because they are “hillbilly’s”. (according to them)
3. One set of parents that one is Catholic and one is faithless. Don’t pray, don’t go to church, buy their children what ever they want.
4. Another set of parents that went to Catholic School their whole life and told me they don’t read the Bible or know what our Catechism says.

The list goes on and on. This scares me. I don’t know what to do. I feel sad. I can’t even share my faith. It also bugs me that I am paying for my child to go to a school that is mostly being used as a private school.

With all this secular propaganda always being shoved down our throats, I should be able to share our faith at our own Catholic School and church.

People know more why the own a Lexus, Mercedes, ford, Chevy, Nissan etc, then why they are Catholic.

I don’t know why I should stay anymore. Why!! Why do I have to defend the Catholic Faith to other Catholics…AHAHAAHHAAHAHAHH!!!

Hmm JR

No worries you are not alone

John replied in the words of the prophet Isaiah: I am a voice shouting in the wilderness, Clear the way for the LORD’s coming!

Be still

Know the Lord your God is with you.

God Loves you.

youtube.com/watch?v=kEfJpJ1lhQc

You are not alone little one.

Peace of Christ be with you ALWAYS

When you are broken hearted God is with you!!

 

[JillianRose]

wait…so it’s not just them not being as “Into” the faith as you are that upsets you, but they activly mock and ridicule catholicism in a catholic school?

Yes…

 

[drfye]

Yes…

…So this is not just a disagreement about spirtiuality, these are people who are blatently being slanderous to your beliefs and mocking the values that you hold in an Institution meant to educate and instill those same values onto others…if my understanding of the situation that you describe is accuratet then I would also be incredibly annoyed by these people who choose to voice their opinions in such a way inside of this religious facility, but as annoyed by the parents as I might be, if the faculty and school itself still has a solid foundation on teaching and religious study I would see no reason to pull the children out, and of course as I said earlier it always helps if the parents have a good understanding of the faith or resoures to confer to so that if the kids come home and do have questions on certain aspects either because their friends at school voiced to them the opinions that their parents hold or out of sheer curiosity, you have information and opinions to provide them. hahahahaha, Well, best of luck to ya.

 

[MarkInOregon]

I have every right to judge them they have said some bad things about our faith and our lord. I will never be a liberal. Catholic that thinks just because the made their sacraments is all they have to do. I said this before if they are in a different place spiritually thats one thing but the naughty talk about our faith is wrong. I also will not tolerate apostasy. There is only one way and it the truth of Jesus Christ thru the Catholic church. I have told them about vbs, Bible study and other programs thru the church. They don’t care. Its the total disrespect against our Catholic faith that upsets me. I have never said anything to them. I am venting to u guys because you are very smart and its the only place I find others that have the same hunger.

Wait–you have the right to judge “them”? Is that really what you mean? I thought we have the right to judge their actions, including the things they say–but as to judging “them” the person–isn’t that up to God alone?

I think it best if we avoid calling ourselves “liberal” or “conservative”–these terms have political overtones–and neither are fully in keeping with our faith. I am Catholic–not liberal or conservative…

I have preferred my parish Catholic School–to our public schools–regardless of the parents. At least you can bring up the faith at the Catholic school–try that at your local public school. At least at the Catholic school it is still Christmas Break rather than winter break. Work within the school–in a nice, polite, nonconfrontational way. Over the 17 years we have had children in our parish school–we have seen changes–not in the range of parents but in the school. I was on the school council for 2 terms–and I simply bring up ideas and lobby for them. It takes time and perseverance. We now have morning prayer (I still lobby for daily mass but I don’t think its going to happen–just the weekly mass we’ve always had–but one never knows), our religion texts are now the Ignatious Faith and Life series, and other small things, but it wasn’t always like this. You need to be nice, respectful and you need to let your ideas be known. That’s all I have done. I am not pushy, I present the idea as something I think would be good for the school – especially at times when they are looking for ideas–I make my case and I let it go. That way I don’t become know as that trouble causing religious freak. Have things changed as fast as I would have liked–no, but they have slowly changed. And I know the culture is better than that at our local public school.

I suggest the parish for the type of people you are hoping to meet. Our family is involved with our parish for the people it sounds like you want to associate with. It would be nice if a large portion of the parents in the school were also involved in the parish–but its hard to be involved in the school (auction, volunteer hours etc., and the other obligation of life) and the parish. Most parents are involved in the various school obligations.

Anyway I’d opt for home schooling before I’d opt for public school.

Peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[lssanjose]

Been perusing this thread. What caught my eye was the mention of a right to judge, or shall I say, a sense of entitlement towards the act of judging people. I reminded of one of the readings we had last week, during weekday mass. Therein, Jesus tells a scribe, or pharisee, before anyone decides to do such, needs to take the splinter from their own eye(s).

In response to sending kids to catholic school, it can work in either direction. I went through seven years of CCD, along with my two sisters who were educated in a rather taskmaster-oriented education program. Nothing but blind retention, and recitation. End result, My two sisters are no longer practicing catholics. I wiggled my way back to Catholicism (as explained in my post, in Meet & Greet). In the times I had turned my back, my parents would do things enabling us to drift further (being condescending, by making snide remarks, etc.).

I still don’t think Religious Education is taught in a way truly preparing those growing up in the faith to be fully coated with the armor of God. Most of the time, peer-pressure scenarios are only paid lipservice, and never trained, or put into actual practice, via role-play.

Nobody likes political games, worse are political games with kids. But, if you pay attention to what your end state (goals), you’ll figure out what’s the most EFFICIENT (not the same as effective) means to achieve it/them.

 

[lssanjose]

Wait–you have the right to judge “them”? Is that really what you mean? I thought we have the right to judge their actions, including the things they say–but as to judging “them” the person–isn’t that up to God alone?

I think it best if we avoid calling ourselves “liberal” or “conservative”–these terms have political overtones–and neither are fully in keeping with our faith. I am Catholic–not liberal or conservative…

I have preferred my parish Catholic School–to our public schools–regardless of the parents. At least you can bring up the faith at the Catholic school–try that at your local public school. At least at the Catholic school it is still Christmas Break rather than winter break. Work within the school–in a nice, polite, nonconfrontational way. Over the 17 years we have had children in our parish school–we have seen changes–not in the range of parents but in the school. I was on the school council for 2 terms–and I simply bring up ideas and lobby for them. It takes time and perseverance. We now have morning prayer (I still lobby for daily mass but I don’t think its going to happen–just the weekly mass we’ve always had–but one never knows), our religion texts are now the Ignatious Faith and Life series, and other small things, but it wasn’t always like this. You need to be nice, respectful and you need to let your ideas be known. That’s all I have done. I am not pushy, I present the idea as something I think would be good for the school – especially at times when they are looking for ideas–I make my case and I let it go. That way I don’t become know as that trouble causing religious freak. Have things changed as fast as I would have liked–no, but they have slowly changed. And I know the culture is better than that at our local public school.

I suggest the parish for the type of people you are hoping to meet. Our family is involved with our parish for the people it sounds like you want to associate with. It would be nice if a large portion of the parents in the school were also involved in the parish–but its hard to be involved in the school (auction, volunteer hours etc., and the other obligation of life) and the parish. Most parents are involved in the various school obligations.

Anyway I’d opt for home schooling before I’d opt for public school.

Peace of Christ,
Mark

+1.

 

[benjohnson]

no, it was a visiting Priest. It is suppose to be a Catholic School. You do not have to become Catholic or make sacraments.

I am just tring to figure out how 5000 per child is gonna benefit him when I can teach him at home and send him to our 5 star public schools we have already in my area.

As a parent, you have my sympathy!

I send my children to the Lutheran school - it costs $5000 per year too. They do such a good job in faith formation that my children wind up teaching me! I think it’s reasonable to expect that from your child’s school, so in my opinion, you are wise to be concerned.

You may want to look around for another Catholic school - I know the local parish that is filled with immigrant children would have been a great fit for my child,but we couldn’t get the parish discount

I did get some advice from someone who I respected and they said that any child can survive almost any educational environment as long as mom and dad continue the child’s education at home - I needed that advice when I didn’t know if I could afford a christian school. If you have to pull you child out, and the money savings could free up your family’s time to continue their education at home, you may want to consider that as well.