Catholic Catechism para. 841 on Islam vs. Robert Spencer's view on Islam

[GaryTaylor]

So what I see coming from the Vatican, the USCCB, (and a recent speech by Cardinal Timothy Dolan), and others is clearly more in line with a “dialogue/mutual respect” approach to Islam. At the very least, this is the FIRST FOOT that must be put forward.

No-one suggested otherwise. So in your mind this means what in relation to Egypt today or the Boston bombing. Accept and avoid?

Still – I find it difficult to reconcile the tone of Spencer (and Kirkpatrick) with these Church statements.

Well, it would help if you elaborated. you would be at odds with Vatican Radio, CAF, NCR. Scott Hahn. Patrick Madrid and a host of others mentioned. Why is your opinion more important?

I guess I’m still confused. Is the Catholic Church saying – seek mutual respect/understanding, and if you HAPPEN to bring a Muslim into the Catholic Church, then great – but do NOT seek to evangelize directly.

What circumstances are you suggesting? I’m confused about your thinking.

Perhaps what the Catholic Church is doing is simply providing the “STUB” of respect and dialogue as a basic, common starting point – and then once we have that established, we trust the work of the Holy Spirit to move us into an effective evangelism.
I guess the Church has simply left the specifics of evangelistic dialogue up to lay Catholic apologists?

The Church has been dealing with powers and principalities since it was Divinely established. Muslims since Muslims began calling themselves Muslims The documents you have sighted have all been sighted by one or another on this thread. The apologists, professors, scholars and Doctors mentioned give their view in regards.

Some prefer Peter Kreeft others Spencer.another will listen to whomever. And to many this is nothing new, you reap what you sow in this world. Its not about indifference or discouraged dialogue. Its also not about ignorance in dialogue. Its always about discipleship in Jesus Christ.

Muslims believing in their own faith is not of question, most of us know they truly believe what they believe.

None of this means ignoring violence such as Egypt or Boston. Do you believe you shouldn’t speak on this just accept and act as if its of no issue? What are you saying?

 

[ericc]

To get my dose of Islamic knowledge, one of my website I go to is fatherzakaria.net/. Father Zakaria Boutros is an Egyptian Coptic priest who reads Arabic. I like his approach of questioning Islamic experts about Islam by quoting directly from the Quran and other Islamic literature in their own language. I believe he has influenced many Muslims to think about their faith deeply, asking the embarrassing questions. Father Zakaria’s videos are widely available on youtube as well.

However, recently I have not been able to get on to his website. Can some kind soul check whether it is still up and running or perhaps it is blocked by my country. I also have not been able to get on jihadwatch.org/ as well when I tried to read up on Robert Spencer. If someone can try visiting these 2 websites and let me know whether they are up and running, I will appreciate it.

Expert knowledge can come about in many ways. Paper qualification is just one way. Personal experience through interaction and private reading and research can upgrade your skills. You don’t have to be a Muslim to be knowledgeable on Islam. Being a Catholic doesn’t mean I know my faith intimately either. Not too long ago, an expert in Islamic law (ie with all the proper qualifications) but herself not a Muslim found out that she can not apply/permitted to be a Sharia Judge because she is not Muslim. I can see why many find it hard to discuss their religion with them as they sort of ring-fence their faith. As Fr Zakaria pointed out, a proper Muslim is not suppose to question their faith, just do and obey.

 

[GaryTaylor]

He could be read. I don’t know about the links.

“An interview with the Coptic Orthodox Priest with a 60 million dollar bounty on his head from al Qaeda.”

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=33761

 

[ericc]

To get my dose of Islamic knowledge, one of my website I go to is fatherzakaria.net/. Father Zakaria Boutros is an Egyptian Coptic priest who reads Arabic. I like his approach of questioning Islamic experts about Islam by quoting directly from the Quran and other Islamic literature in their own language. I believe he has influenced many Muslims to think about their faith deeply, asking the embarrassing questions. Father Zakaria’s videos are widely available on youtube as well.

However, recently I have not been able to get on to his website. Can some kind soul check whether it is still up and running or perhaps it is blocked by my country. I also have not been able to get on jihadwatch.org/ as well when I tried to read up on Robert Spencer. If someone can try visiting these 2 websites and let me know whether they are up and running, I will appreciate it.

Update:

The 2 websites are indeed government censored. Perhaps a phobia of ordinary folks finding out the truth about THAT religion? It would be messy once ordinary folks are clued in and people start to demand their constitution rights to change religion.

Anyway, bypassed the censors by tweaking the DNS.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Update:

The 2 websites are indeed government censored. Perhaps a phobia of ordinary folks finding out the truth about THAT religion? It would be messy once ordinary folks are clued in and people start to demand their constitution rights to change religion.

Anyway, bypassed the censors by tweaking the DNS.

Perhaps another valid issue which leads to opinion of how to correctly evangelize.

How about the Fathers path of evangelization?

This is what is of interest in relation to 841. I guess Spencer is not unique either. But yes the message they relate sparks attention. This isn’t unique with censorship either.