Catholic Catecisum

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HELP please,
i thought Catholics had to believe in the Catholic Catechism and that it at some level was doctrinal belief for Catholics.

A person from the Eastern church has indicated that this may not be so.

That the Western Catholic church does and the eastern does not.

Can anybody speak truth on this and if possible reference your source 4 me.

B blessed and B guided
 
Steven-

By “Eastern” do you mean Byzantine Catholic, or Orthodox? That would make a difference.

Also the Catechism is a summation of Catholic doctrine, but it is not promulgated as dogmatic in and of itself, so it’s not like every paragraph is binding. Some of it is “explanatory” or applying doctrine to the changing conditions of the world.

HTH
 
Read the promulgation notes on the CCC at vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm

III. The Aim and Intended Readership of the Catechism

11 This catechism aims at presenting an organic synthesis of the essential and fundamental contents of Catholic doctrine, as regards both faith and morals, in the light of the Second Vatican Council and the whole of the Church’s Tradition. Its principal sources are the Sacred Scriptures, the Fathers of the Church, the liturgy, and the Church’s Magisterium. It is intended to serve “as a point of reference for the catechisms or compendia that are composed in the various countries”.15

12 This work is intended primarily for those responsible for catechesis: first of all the bishops, as teachers of the faith and pastors of the Church. It is offered to them as an instrument in fulfilling their responsibility of teaching the People of God. Through the bishops, it is addressed to redactors of catechisms, to priests, and to catechists. It will also be useful reading for all other Christian faithful.

and

VI. Necessary Adaptations

23 The Catechism emphasizes the exposition of doctrine. It seeks to help deepen understanding of faith. In this way it is oriented towards the maturing of that faith, its putting down roots in personal life, and its shining forth in personal conduct.17

24 By design, this Catechism does not set out to provide the adaptation of doctrinal presentations and catechetical methods required by the differences of culture, age, spiritual maturity, and social and ecclesial condition among all those to whom it is addressed. Such indispensable adaptations are the responsibility of particular catechisms and, even more, of those who instruct the faithful:

Whoever teaches must become “all things to all men” (⇒ I Cor 9:22), to win everyone to Christ. . . Above all, teachers must not imagine that a single kind of soul has been entrusted to them, and that consequently it is lawful to teach and form equally all the faithful in true piety with one and the same method! Let them realize that some are in Christ as newborn babes, others as adolescents, and still others as adults in full command of their powers… Those who are called to the ministry of preaching must suit their words to the maturity and understanding of their hearers, as they hand on the teaching of the mysteries of faith and the rules of moral conduct.18

Above all - Charity

25 To conclude this Prologue, it is fitting to recall this pastoral principle stated by the Roman Catechism:

The whole concern of doctrine and its teaching must be directed to the love that never ends. Whether something is proposed for belief, for hope or for action, the love of our Lord must always be made accessible, so that anyone can see that all the works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and have no other objective than to arrive at love.19​

it discusses doctrine (and thus also the subset of doctrine that must be believed, not just obeyed, Dogma), but is not itself doctrine.
 
Steven_John said:
HELP please,
i thought Catholics had to believe in the Catholic Catechism and that it at some level was doctrinal belief for Catholics.

A person from the Eastern church has indicated that this may not be so.

That the Western Catholic church does and the eastern does not.

Can anybody speak truth on this and if possible reference your source 4 me.

B blessed and B guided
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The Catechism is a publication of the Latin (Western) Rite. As such, it’s formulation of doctrine is distinctly Latin in character. The Eastern Rites do not use some of this language or concepts to describe the faith. The Eastern Rites in communion with the Bishop of Rome have agreed not to quibble about this language, even though some of it is not part of the faith as received from the Apostles in the East.
 
NHInsider said:
Steven-

By “Eastern” do you mean Byzantine Catholic, or Orthodox? That would make a difference.

Also the Catechism is a summation of Catholic doctrine, but it is not promulgated as dogmatic in and of itself, so it’s not like every paragraph is binding. Some of it is “explanatory” or applying doctrine to the changing conditions of the world.

HTH
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Catholic, it is easy to explain the major differences in views of the Catechism?

Aramis i am very grateful an i am sure will enable me to better discern when reading.

Bless you both
 
Steven_John said:
it is easy to explain the major differences in views of the Catechism?
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Well, yes and no. 😃

For Eastern Rite Catholics the differences are linguistic and cultural. For the Orthodox, the Latin Rite is considered to have separated itself from the Apostolic faith, and added “innovations” to the creed and Apostolic faith. From the Orthodox point of view, the Latin Rite are the first “protestants”, and they confirm this by their “fruit”. the entire Protestant Reformation emanated out of the Latin Rite, a factoid they use to confirm the departure from the True Faith in 1054.
 
Steven_John said:
Catholic, it is easy to explain the major differences in views of the Catechism?
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Perhaps it would be best to read an eastern catechism and the CCC side-by-side.

The UGCC has released a new one, but there are older eastern Catechisms too.

It must by remembered that no catechism is infallible, in fact the modern CCC has been tweaked since it’s first release. More adjusting could announced at any time and for any reason (although I would not expect it).

The CCC, in at least one place, gives the distinct impression of including contradictory concepts in the same topic. I suspect this is the fruit of an attempt to harmonize eastern theology with western. Since moving I no longer have access to my notes.

I believe the section on prayer [Part 4] was largely the work of a Maronite priest.
 
Some of the things in the CCC, such as what it says about Holy Unction, apply ONLY to the Latin discipline.
 
guanophore said:
Well, yes and no. 😃

For Eastern Rite Catholics the differences are linguistic and cultural. For the Orthodox, the Latin Rite is considered to have separated itself from the Apostolic faith, and added “innovations” to the creed and Apostolic faith. From the Orthodox point of view, the Latin Rite are the first “protestants”, and they confirm this by their “fruit”. the entire Protestant Reformation emanated out of the Latin Rite, a factoid they use to confirm the departure from the True Faith in 1054.
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But I don’t think that anyone would expect the Orthodox churches to accept the CCC. Their views aren’t really relevant here, and make the matter all the more confusing. The Eastern Catholic churches are in communion with Rome, so they cannot view the Latin rite as the first “protestants,” or else they would see themselves as being in communion with heretics. So how does Eastern Catholicism reconcile the differences between East and West? I understand the changes in discipline, but what about the Filioque? I mean either the spirit proceeds from Jesus or he doesn’t. It can’t be a linguistic or cultural difference that could hold both as true.
 
FrancisB said:
…The Eastern Catholic churches are in communion with Rome, so they cannot view the Latin rite as the first “protestants,” or else they would see themselves as being in communion with heretics. So how does Eastern Catholicism reconcile the differences between East and West? I understand the changes in discipline, but what about the Filioque?
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A paradox?

Actually I think most EC, if pressed, will state that they agree with the filioque in some sense. Why they should be happy not to have to recite would then be a mystery, unless they agree with Orthodox that it should be altogether removed from the Creed anyway. 🤷
FrancisB said:
I mean either the spirit proceeds from Jesus or he doesn’t. It can’t be a linguistic or cultural difference that could hold both as true.
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What exactly do you mean by “proceeds from Jesus” ?

As stated here, this is potentially disturbing. The way one describes the filioque must be very precise.

I have always said that a clause in the Creed should clarify, not confuse, and this is exactly why the filioque is not really a worthy interpolation within the Creed.
 
One poster stated that the CCC is a publication of the Latin Church. I disagree. It was promulgated by the Holy See with the clear intention of it serving as a universal guide. That being said, Latin theological language is often employed. This, however, is to be expected for a general Church text when 98 % of the faithful are Latins; furthermore, Eastern Fathers are quoted throughout the text, Eastern priests were consulted in it’s development, and Eastern theology is highlighted at places.
 
You guys are all so helpful and i give thanks to YHWH for the awesome quality in your help i had no idea that the Catholic church was divided i always had looked at it as a different expression of the same.

In the Catechism i have (western i guess), the one authorised by our last parish priest and given me by a Nunn it says that Muslims and Catholics adore the one God.

Is it different in the East? Please i refer to the Catechism not peoples heart or speech about it.
 
Christ is in our midst!
Steven_John said:
Catholic, it is easy to explain the major differences in views of the Catechism?
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Since it’s written largely from the perspective of the west (but as twf well points out it does have a number of references to Eastern sources, perspectives, practices and definitely had Eastern Catholics involved in the process) you might take a look at the first 1and1/2 minutes of this presentation by Fr. Loya (don’t be confused by the title of the video), as well as listen to some of “Who are Eastern Catholics?” PART 1 with Fr. Maximos of Holy Resurrection Monastery (click on “more info” to see the list of questions she asks in each of the separate videos) for a basic idea of how the East and West might come up with very different approaches to catechisms (and these two urls are both to Byzantines, only one part of the Eastern Catholic world). 🙂
 
Steven_John said:
Is it different in the East? Please i refer to the Catechism not peoples heart or speech about it.
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It is often said that they think they worship the same god. The Muslim God is very different in praxis from even the OT god of the Jews.

The Catholic Church claims that they worship the same God, and so the ECC’s claim, or remain silent on the issue. The Muslims also claim it is the same God.

The Orthodox don’t even, as a body, acknowledge protestantism as worshiping the same God as themselves… let alone the Muslims.

but it is not doctrine, for any but muslims, that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
 
understand the changes in discipline, but what about the Filioque?
In the case of the Byzantine or Chaldean Catholic Churches, it’s just not said.
 
“understand the changes in discipline, but what about the Filioque?”

Not used in the creed, but the fundamental belief in the intended meaning is taught.

Note that the Holy spirit does flow from the Son as if a conduit, but the Spirit originates only in the father. In the Latin translation of the creed, it is unclear.
 
Aramis said:
It is often said that they think they worship the same god. The Muslim God is very different in praxis from even the OT god of the Jews.

The Catholic Church claims that they worship the same God, and so the ECC’s claim, or remain silent on the issue. The Muslims also claim it is the same God.

The Orthodox don’t even, as a body, acknowledge protestantism as worshiping the same God as themselves… let alone the Muslims.

but it is not doctrine, for any but muslims, that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
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Hmm not being very bright is now getting in my way i reckon, looking at the bold it is the belief of the Church (East and West) but its members don’t have to agree?
 
It isn’t a “belief”, it is a theological opinion - one can hold it or chose to disagree with it and remain in good standing.
 
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