Catholic cathedrals in England , Not?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chuck1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Chuck1

Guest
Hello. , I have noticed in the USA that cathedrals are catholic or they have catholic catholic cathedrals and in England the cathedrals and most old church’s are Anglican , my theory for this is because of the reformation and by the end there where no catholic cathedrals left and replaced by Anglicanism and this didnt happen in the USA so they still have catholic cathedrals ? Correct ?

Thanks , love in Christ Chuck
 
Hello. , I have noticed in the USA that cathedrals are catholic or they have catholic catholic cathedrals and in England the cathedrals and most old church’s are Anglican , my theory for this is because of the reformation and by the end there where no catholic cathedrals left and replaced by Anglicanism and this didnt happen in the USA so they still have catholic cathedrals ? Correct ?

Thanks , love in Christ Chuck
All the churches in England, Scotland, and Wales were stolen by the monarchy for the Church of England, yes. After Catholics were allowed to practice openly again, we build new ones to replace those taken away.
 
Chuck, you do know that the Reformation happened centuries before the founding of the USA? There were no cathedrals already existing in the USA to still survive today, Everything had to be built from scratch, long, long after the cathedrals in in the UK were taken over by Henry V111.

In the UK nowadays, you are correct that the great medieval cathedrals and churches no longer are Catholic. but that does not mean we don’t have any Catholic cathedrals, just that new ones were built after the restoration of the Catholic hierarchy in the nineteenth century.
 
Chuck, you do know that the Reformation happened centuries before the founding of the USA? There were no cathedrals already existing in the USA to still survive today, Everything had to be built from scratch, long, long after the cathedrals in in the UK were taken over by Henry V111.
Good point. The oldest Catholic church in the English colonies was right off my college campus, built ca. 1635, well after the Reformation. The first cathedral in the United States was built in Baltimore, Md in the early 1800s. Here in the USA, the story is different.
 
Hello. , I have noticed in the USA that cathedrals are catholic or they have catholic catholic cathedrals and in England the cathedrals and most old church’s are Anglican , my theory for this is because of the reformation and by the end there where no catholic cathedrals left and replaced by Anglicanism and this didnt happen in the USA so they still have catholic cathedrals ? Correct ?

Thanks , love in Christ Chuck
Yes, a shame. In London, the Westminster Abbey completely unsacred and the Catholic Westminster Cathedral of a dubious taste but full of English Catholics…
 
Hello. , I have noticed in the USA that cathedrals are catholic or they have catholic catholic cathedrals and in England the cathedrals and most old church’s are Anglican , my theory for this is because of the reformation and by the end there where no catholic cathedrals left and replaced by Anglicanism and this didnt happen in the USA so they still have catholic cathedrals ? Correct ?

Thanks , love in Christ Chuck
It is no theory, Chuck. Henry VIII burned or destroyed most of the Catholic cathedrals and monasteries throughout England. You can go and visit their ruins all over the countryside. The ones he left standing are mostly Anglican now.

This country was founded by Puritans, who were not Catholic, so for quite a long time, this was a mostly Protestant nation. You will hear expressions such as “The Protestant Work Ethic” which usually means, working your way toward salvation. When the Irish Catholics came over to work almost as slaves, to escape the potato famine in Ireland, more Catholic churches started to be built and to flourish. We never had the Anglican Church here, but the Episcopalians are the US equivalent.

There are many history books about the Reformation and its aftermath.
 
. We never had the Anglican Church here, but the Episcopalians are the US equivalent.
Spot on, Juliane, except this. The Church of England was the state church of the American colonies until the War of Independence. Then the Anglicans remaining in the U.S. were in the awkward position of owing religious allegiance to King George III, so they created the present sect as way to be both American and English Protestant.
 
Spot on, Juliane, except this. The Church of England was the state church of the American colonies until the War of Independence. Then the Anglicans remaining in the U.S. were in the awkward position of owing religious allegiance to King George III, so they created the present sect as way to be both American and English Protestant.
Ah, yes, thanks for the correction. I tend to think of the Puritans as a different sect from the Anglicans but I suppose that is what they were in spite of their desired reforms.

I think the OP would benefit from a good book on the subject.
 
A cathedral is the primatial church of a diocese. Every Catholic diocese has a cathedral. There are about 200 dioceses in the U.S., so about 200 cathedrals. Some are much different in appearance from a large regular parish.

Every diocese in the UK also has a cathedral, there are a little over 30 Catholic dioceses in the UK, so that many cathedrals.

The Church of England has only about 42 dioceses in the UK, so the total number is really not all that different. The most striking difference is that the Anglican cathedrals are larger more historic structures because all of the Catholic cathedrals were lost and either destroyed or taken over by the English Crown.
 
Even in lreland, the medieval churches belong to the Anglican Church of Ireland, rather than the RCC. Why they retained them I have no idea.
 
Yes, a shame. In London, the Westminster Abbey completely unsacred and the Catholic Westminster Cathedral of a dubious taste but full of English Catholics…
Completely unsacred is, I think, a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, it is now no longer Catholic, but there are at least 4 daily services held there each day (including 2 communion services) and their choir sings daily every day except Wednesday. Pope Benedict was so impressed after he attended Evensong there that he asked them to sing in Rome last week for the solemnity of St Peter & St Paul.
 
It is no theory, Chuck. Henry VIII burned or destroyed most of the Catholic cathedrals and monasteries throughout England. You can go and visit their ruins all over the countryside. The ones he left standing are mostly Anglican now.
Not quite. He dissolved almost all of the monasteries but not the Cathedrals - in fact he converted five edifices that had been Abbey churches to the existing 16 cathedrals at that time. Other churches later became Cathedrals. The iconaclasm that is often refferred to, took place much later during the Commonwealth when England was governed by Puritans. After the restoration much enrichment was done to many Cathedrals.

Most English cities now have both a Catholic and Anglican Cathedral. Liverpool is a good example where two twentieth century cathedrals one gothic (Anglican) and one modern (Catholic) stand on two hills - both now enjoy warm ecumenical relations.
 
A cathedral is the primatial church of a diocese. Every Catholic diocese has a cathedral. There are about 200 dioceses in the U.S., so about 200 cathedrals. Some are much different in appearance from a large regular parish.

Every diocese in the UK also has a cathedral, there are a little over 30 Catholic dioceses in the UK, so that many cathedrals.

The Church of England has only about 42 dioceses in the UK, so the total number is really not all that different. The most striking difference is that the Anglican cathedrals are larger more historic structures because all of the Catholic cathedrals were lost and either destroyed or taken over by the English Crown.
There are 22 Catholic Cathedrals in England and Wales and 42 Anglican Cathedrals in England (6 in Wales)

It’s important to note that The Church of England has no jurisdiction in Wales or Scotland or Ireland which are separate provinces within the Anglican communion. (Church in Wales; Church of Ireland; Scottish Episcopal Church)
 
Completely unsacred is, I think, a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, it is now no longer Catholic, but there are at least 4 daily services held there each day (including 2 communion services) and their choir sings daily every day except Wednesday. Pope Benedict was so impressed after he attended Evensong there that he asked them to sing in Rome last week for the solemnity of St Peter & St Paul.
Then I tell you my London Experience. When my kids were small we lived in Camden Town for 1 month in a house exchange. Then, on Sunday we went to Mass and we found a beautiful Gothic Church and moved towards it, after a limping old lady. She entered and we found a couple there in an empty church. I was surprised as it was 5 minutes to mass. He said that it was not a Catholic Church and the lady said that though she was Catholic she would not bulge one inch as she was exhausted and God is the same everywhere. I was shy of asking but I had to for the man was looking to me. With 1000 excuses I asked whether that was a Catholic church and every politely He showed me the way down the road and told me, who was still muttering excuses, that that was no problem. It was a High Anglican Church (??? if I remember well).

Down we went and found an horrible Church full of Catholics singing at full lungs. I could not forget the beautiful Gothic Cathedral with the Pastor, the Wife and one limping Catholic churchgoer. It was a beautiful mass.

Then we went one day to Westminster Abbey and I was horrified for all those tombs in the middle of the Cathedral. what were they doing there? Then I remember that it were the Bosses of the Anglican Church. But were not the Protestant against Images of Saints? What were they doing there, obstructing the way, at least they could be buried under the floor… Well, tastes are tastes, and i was horrified.

Then we went to a dubious Eastern Style Cathedral, not finished yet. The Cathedral was full for the 11:00 (???) mass. Everybody sang at full lungs. The organist got so carried away by one hymn that he blew at full and a lady in front of us looked up so see what was happening. I did not look for I knew what was happening: my wife still says that it was the most moving Mass she has even attended.

And we attended mass in most European Cathedrals.

Just a touch of my experiences…
 
Then I tell you my London Experience. When my kids were small we lived in Camden Town for 1 month in a house exchange. Then, on Sunday we went to Mass and we found a beautiful Gothic Church and moved towards it, after a limping old lady. She entered and we found a couple there in an empty church. I was surprised as it was 5 minutes to mass. He said that it was not a Catholic Church and the lady said that though she was Catholic she would not bulge one inch as she was exhausted and God is the same everywhere. I was shy of asking but I had to for the man was looking to me. With 1000 excuses I asked whether that was a Catholic church and every politely He showed me the way down the road and told me, who was still muttering excuses, that that was no problem. It was a High Anglican Church (??? if I remember well).

Down we went and found an horrible Church full of Catholics singing at full lungs. I could not forget the beautiful Gothic Cathedral with the Pastor, the Wife and one limping Catholic churchgoer. It was a beautiful mass.

Then we went one day to Westminster Abbey and I was horrified for all those tombs in the middle of the Cathedral. what were they doing there? Then I remember that it were the Bosses of the Anglican Church. But were not the Protestant against Images of Saints? What were they doing there, obstructing the way, at least they could be buried under the floor… Well, tastes are tastes, and i was horrified.

Then we went to a dubious Eastern Style Cathedral, not finished yet. The Cathedral was full for the 11:00 (???) mass. Everybody sang at full lungs. The organist got so carried away by one hymn that he blew at full and a lady in front of us looked up so see what was happening. I did not look for I knew what was happening: my wife still says that it was the most moving Mass she has even attended.

And we attended mass in most European Cathedrals.

Just a touch of my experiences…
I am not sure about the relevance of your Camden Town experience, but I suspect the church you visited was the Anglican Church of St Michael - once on the point of closure but today a thriving parish (including many Catholics who dislike the rather ugly Catholic churchthere but that is no excuse, they should find another Catholic church). I am surprised about your comment on the singing. Catholics in London are poor singers, unlike Anglicans.

There are no tombs “in the middle of the Abbey” apart from the shrines to Edward the Confessor and the pre-reformation Kings, though there are some ugly monuments at the side. You obviously did not stay for Choral Evensong which I think would have been a memorable experience.
 
Spot on, Juliane, except this. The Church of England was the state church of the American colonies until the War of Independence. Then the Anglicans remaining in the U.S. were in the awkward position of owing religious allegiance to King George III, so they created the present sect as way to be both American and English Protestant.
The C of E was not the established church in every colony, only some. Massachussetts, New Hampshire and Connecticut were all officially Congregational; Delaware, Georgia, Rhode Island, New Jersey and Pennsylvania all had no established church; the rest were Anglican. Additionally, there were significant numbers of Quakers in Pennsylvania, Anabaptists in Rhode Island, and Catholics in Maryland.
Ah, yes, thanks for the correction. I tend to think of the Puritans as a different sect from the Anglicans but I suppose that is what they were in spite of their desired reforms.
NO, most of what we call Puritans had already left Anglicanism for Anabaptist and other sects by the 18th century. They considered Anglicanism too much like “popery.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top