Catholic Charismatic or Catholic emotionalist?

[guanophore]

In other words, it is not necessary to receive the gift of tongues in order to have gifts of the Spirit.

No, in fact, this is written about as the “least” of the gifts.

Sadly, I think also our modern society and all our scientific understanding may be partly to blame as well-- we cannot pretend we are immune to the spiritual effects of our environment. People just have a hard time believing in the miraculous anymore–and if you don’t believe and accept, you won’t receive.

This is a good point.

– the age of Confirmation has varied so much over the centuries… Many receive(d) it without fully understanding what it is. Is it catechism that makes the difference? Or an individual’s devotion to God? Certainly good catechism helps, but one cannot force another to believe or act accordingly.

In my experience with HS candidates for confirmation, I can honestly say that most of them are uncatechized, and have no business approaching the sacrament. Most of them are compelled by parents, and believe that this is the capstone of their classes, and that completing it, they will no longer have to come to catechism.

And even if one understands it, it takes time, prayer, and practice (a life long journey of conversion) to completely give oneself over to God so that one may realize the depths of the gifts God has for each of us. That entails commitment that it seems fewer people are willing to make these days…

I think if the Church used the standards applied in the early centuries, we would have less nominal Catholics, and more saints and martyrs.

I guess my point was that if we as a Church truly believe that the sacraments are outward signs of real and effective grace that accomplish what they symbolize (as the CCC says), then we receive these gifts initially in baptism and, in completion, through the sacrament of Confirmation. There is not another baptism of Spirit needed–only an opening of oneself to receive that which the Holy Spirit offers. In other words, we have only to abandon ourselves to Him and allow Him to work as He wills.

Yes. I explain it as a room that is wired for electricty. At baptism, and confirmation, the wiring is laid, and is “live”. Many of the faithful fail to turn on the switch, though, and don’t live in the power and light.

 

[uther]

The CCR isn’t for everybody. But it also doesn’t need to be.

However, the Holy Spirit is for everybody. So we need to understand this phenomenon better as well as its proper place in the Church.

 

[uther]

I agree. I think if it were understood more in the same way that the early church understood it, then there would be a lot more on fire Catholics.

Are you speaking of the early Church at Corinth? St. Paul had to set them straight about the gifts and their use in the Church. In fact, he set down some rules of order that seem to go largely unnoticed by our “Pentecostal” brethren who claim to use the scripture as their guide, as well as by many CCR groups.

The chaos that St. Paul was reproving the Corinthians for seems to be quite evident to this day.

Not being an authority on this I would tend to defer to St. Paul because, as he pointed out, he spoke in tongues more than any of them, and that to me would qualify him as an expert and a Charismatic.

For those in the CCR, if St. Paul’s rules of order were applied, how would it affect the meetings? A little? Not at all? A lot?

 

[guanophore]

Are you speaking of the early Church at Corinth?

No, I am speaking about the behavior of the 12 when the Spirit fell upon them. How often do you see a Catholic in the marketplace preaching the gospel and healing the sick?

St. Paul had to set them straight about the gifts and their use in the Church. In fact, he set down some rules of order that seem to go largely unnoticed by our “Pentecostal” brethren who claim to use the scripture as their guide, as well as by many CCR groups.

I think they notice the scripture, they just don’t understand it very well. Most Pentecostals are better versed in their scripture than the average Catholic.

The chaos that St. Paul was reproving the Corinthians for seems to be quite evident to this day.

Not being an authority on this I would tend to defer to St. Paul because, as he pointed out, he spoke in tongues more than any of them, and that to me would qualify him as an expert and a Charismatic.

For those in the CCR, if St. Paul’s rules of order were applied, how would it affect the meetings? A little? Not at all? A lot?

I can’t really speak to that, since the meetings I attend follow his guidelines, and chaos is not found. Perhaps you could visit one in your area, and enlighten us?

 

[po18guy]

1.if pentecostalism is based merely on emotional and feel why are they claiming miracles throughout the movements? can the Holy Spirit work with anyone regardless of the True Christ Church etc. like protestant or hinduism or budhism?
2.can the Holy Spirit really help anyone for miracles without bringing us to the root of His spouse the Virgin Mother and the Apostolic Church?

thank you… benedecat vos Deus

Christ’s peace be with you.

The Holy Spirit will always lead to unity, as God is one. Many other spirits also inhabit this earth, and are willing to lead us, if we allow them. We have to test the results, as St. Paul advised us, then keep what is good. Pentacostalists have the Spirit, but not the Body of Christ, thus they are in error.

The Holy Spirit, having come upon the Mother of God, will always lead to the complete truth. It is up to those who hear the truth to follow it to its source.

You must be careful of “some” CCR groups, as they can be mislead into improper directions. They are sinners, just as we are. TEST them, because you will know them by their fruits.

God bless you!

 

[colliric]

The CCR is part of the Latin Rite of the Church, it celebrates the same Latin Rite mass that the other parishes do, which means that Jesus is present in the Eucharist as it is exactly the same liturgy and the Priest is a Latin Rite Priest. That mass may be done with more vigor or more sense of “excitement” but it still falls under the rules. That’s why it doesn’t say “St Augustine CCR Catholic Church”, it just says “St Augustine Catholic Church”.

We must be careful not to to treat the CCR, of which I am become a part through the RCIA(It’s just a normal RCIA program actually), as a different because it is part of the one true church and that church’s Latin rite. We may be weary of private practices/beliefs, but when I go into my parish and celebrate mass there, I know where I am, a Catholic Church.

I know the Arch-Bishop really keeps an eye on the goings on in the church, and I know it doesn’t overstep the bounds. The only thing I know we do a little different is holding hands during the our father. We also have praise and worship music before Mass.

Once again, rest assured, Jesus is there in the Eucharist.You are in a Latin Rite Catholic Church. Things may seem a little more energetic, but he’s still going to be there because the liturgical norms are followed stringently and correctly.