Catholic Charismatic Renewal

[The_Theotokos]

I may have to check out an Eastern Rite church. Would all my sacraments be accepted there? ie: Baptism, marriage, even though I am a widow. Also, do they youth get confirmed?

aloneinjax,

Any Catholic, eastern or western can attend any Catholic church. We have the same sacraments, but with slightly different rules or expressions. In the east, babies are baptized, confirmed, and receive first communion all on the same day, we tend to prefer full immersion baptism over sprinkling, our Eucharist uses leavened bread, etc. As a Catholic, you can attend any eastern Catholic Church at any time, receive all the sacraments, and even join a parish with or without changing rites.

Feel free to email me if you would like to learn more or have more questions.

eternaltheotokos@aol.com

 

[LRH1957]

Wow! I feel, now, like I am not good enough with praying the rosary, having faith, praying to our Blessed Mother, etc. No disrespect to you but did you read your post back? I feel as though I would be disregarded if I walked into a Charismatic church and did NOT feel the need to worship in tongues. Do you have congregants that choose not to praise in tongues? If so, what is their method of prayer while tongues is going on?

I won’t speak for hope7, but of course you would not be disregarded. My experiences are 95% positive and what I have witnessed is people coming to a much deeper faith that is alive with appreciation for the sacraments, the Mass, other forms of prayer. Some people enjoy the silent, quiet, reverent forms of worship. Some like to participate in joyful praise and worship. Some are uncomfortable with the joyful, exhuberant praise and worship. That’s OK! It’s not better or worse than the quiet and reverent.

When people came to the charismatic gathering we had we would tell them you don’t have to do anything you feel uncomfortable with. You can just watch or you can sing or you can join in. Just praise and worship our God however you are comfortable even if that means in silence. There was no pressure whatsoever.

I have been to beautiful Masses in beautiful cathedrals and churches (Catholic) around the world. They were all beautiful !

I have also been to wonderful Catholic charismatic gatherings with joyful, exhuberant praise followed by quiet times of deep worship. I will never forget attending the national conference about 15 years ago in Pittsburg in the same area that the Penguins one the Stanley cup (hockey) weeks earlier. This time the 18,000 people there were praising and worshipping their God! The celebration of Mass happened several times over the weekend as the central celebration, especially on Sunday.

It’s healthy to have respectful debate and discussion. It challenges us to grow. There are many scriptures describing exhuberant praise and worship going on in heaven. Read the Psalms.

Now let’s go out and share God’s love with others no matter how we pray.

Blessings to all !

 

[vz71]

As for the endorsement of many Bishops, all I can say is that I have known many Bishops who are not well suited to the position and do, in fact, make errors. As for the Pope, I think it would be wise to ask why he is the only Patriarch, out of the many, that directly encourages it.

If the Pope really is directly encouraging it, why such protests?

I see nothing here that alters the liturgy at all.
Unless you wish to judge based upon the worst examples that can be offered rather then what actually is.

Using the same logic, one could readily conclude Catholicism to be nothing more then superstition based upon those individuals that use a ‘St Joseph’ house selling kit.
stjosephstatue.com/

So how about it?
Judge on the movements official positions. Not on what some bad individuals do with it.

 

[aloneinjax]

aloneinjax,

Any Catholic, eastern or western can attend any Catholic church. We have the same sacraments, but with slightly different rules or expressions. In the east, babies are baptized, confirmed, and receive first communion all on the same day, we tend to prefer full immersion baptism over sprinkling, our Eucharist uses leavened bread, etc. As a Catholic, you can attend any eastern Catholic Church at any time, receive all the sacraments, and even join a parish with or without changing rites.

Feel free to email me if you would like to learn more or have more questions.

eternaltheotokos@aol.com

Thank you. I really appreciate this. I am of to the doctor but am adding your e-mail to my address book and will write later today. I have always been interested in the Eastern Rite. Thanks again!

 

[cazayoux]

I do know that you are missing out on a great blessing.

I read this as “Catholic is not enough”.

michel

 

[The_Theotokos]

If the Pope really is directly encouraging it, why such protests?

Maybe it is because in the interest of ecumenism, the recent Popes have allowed there to be more individual expression in Church practice. The decision to endorse the Charismatic Movement may very well be more of a politically correct move. But just because the Pope likes it, doesn’t mean we have to, or should. As I have stated before, the other Patriarchs haven’t supported it and that tells me that the Pope’s choice to do so was a personal decision.

I see nothing here that alters the liturgy at all.
Unless you wish to judge based upon the worst examples that can be offered rather then what actually is.

I base my opinion only on my extensive exposure to it.

Using the same logic, one could readily conclude Catholicism to be nothing more then superstition based upon those individuals that use a ‘St Joseph’ house selling kit.
stjosephstatue.com/

People have and people do conclude such, but the difference here is that we don’t have Liturgies that center around St. Joseph house selling kits.

Judge on the movements official positions. Not on what some bad individuals do with it.

I am merely “testing the spirits”, as the Church commands us to do. Which is something that I find the Charismatic Movement quite deficient in.

 

[The_Theotokos]

I read this as “Catholic is not enough”.

michel

Thank you, I do as well.

 

[vz71]

Remember, the eastern traditions are quite a bit older than the western traditions.

Probably a discussion for a different thread, but I believe this is incorrect.

 

[LRH1957]

Food for thought.

When people ask me if I am “charismatic” I tell them what I am is “Catholic”. Being open to the power of the Spirit to purify and sanctify myself AND in using the gifts of service (charisms) to carry out the mission of the church (spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ)by serving others is what being Catholic is all about.

If you enjoy only quiet, reverent prayer that’s OK. If you enjoy vibrant praise and worship, that’s OK. If you enjoy and are built up by both that is OK. For anyone to say their way is the only way can border on a form of idolatry. I’m not saying it is, so don’t anyone get defensive, but it can be.

Even if we don’t agree, I appreciate that many here are passionate about their own perspectives. We are all human having our own faults and are all in need of the one Savior. While this interesting discussion goes on, why don’t we all agree to say a prayer of blessing for each other, that we all come to know God’s love for us in a deeper way today than we knew it yesterday.

Blessings to you all !

 

[vz71]

I base my opinion only on my extensive exposure to it.

Please elaborate.
Last I checked, the nearest Catholic Charismatic of any type was a fairly long way from Kennesaw.

 

[vz71]

People have and people do conclude such, but the difference here is that we don’t have Liturgies that center around St. Joseph house selling kits.

Nor are there liturgies centered upon anything other then the Eucharist.

 

[vz71]

I am merely “testing the spirits”, as the Church commands us to do. Which is something that I find the Charismatic Movement quite deficient in.

That I can agree with.
What the CCR defines as the gift of discernment is sorely lacking.

But I do not see that as a reason to deride the people in it.

 

[vz71]

I do know that you are missing out on a great blessing.

I read this as "Catholic is not enough

Agreed.
But be fair. There is another equally likely meaning here.

That there is, in fact, a blessing that is being missed out on.
Not a substitute, or more then the Eucharist, just a blessing that we are not taking advantage of.

Kind of like those Christmas gifts that every one of us has received at one time or another.
We all know the ones…we thank the giver graciously and then put it in a box where the gift never sees the light of day again.
After all, that sweater just looks hideous.

 

[The_Theotokos]

Please elaborate.
Last I checked, the nearest Catholic Charismatic of any type was a fairly long way from Kennesaw.

My friend,

I’ve lived in ten different states in the past two decades. And I’ve lived in many different cities within those states. Most of my exposure was in the New England, Chicago, South Florida, and San Diego areas. I became immediately alarmed when I saw Charismatic Catholic priests allowing Protestant ministers to preach to their congregations. I would need to write a book to report every additional problem I witnessed.

 

[The_Theotokos]

Nor are there liturgies centered upon anything other then the Eucharist.

.If that were true, we would not have special “Charismatic Masses”.

 

[The_Theotokos]

That I can agree with.
What the CCR defines as the gift of discernment is sorely lacking.

But I do not see that as a reason to deride the people in it.

I feel, and I would be willing to guess that others who feel the same way that I do about it are concerned that without proper testing of these “words of knowledge” and what have you, the line to heresy becomes far too blurred.

 

[LRH1957]

.If that were true, we would not have special “Charismatic Masses”.

You seem to be a very logical, detailed person very passionate about his/her expression of faith. I am an engineer by training so I am also this way.

I agree the label “charismatic” in front of the word Mass is not needed or even should be used. I think people use it to let people know that it may be more lively than a more reverent form.

Here is a specific question: Are you saying that singing a joyful song of praise at Mass with our hands and arms extended up to our heavenly Father as His children as a gesture of surrender is inappropriate?

 

[vz71]

.If that were true, we would not have special “Charismatic Masses”.

Of course, with the quotes around it that term could mean nearly anything.

However, the few I have witnessed still centered upon the Eucharist.

 

[The_Theotokos]

You seem to be a very logical, detailed person very passionate about his/her expression of faith. I am an engineer by training so I am also this way.

I agree the label “charismatic” in front of the word Mass is not needed or even should be used. I think people use it to let people know that it may be more lively than a more reverent form.

Here is a specific question: Are you saying that singing a joyful song of praise at Mass with our hands and arms extended up to our heavenly Father as His children as a gesture of surrender is inappropriate?

Yes, I am almost logical to a fault. Please forgive me for being such, as I sometimes get a bit too carried away.

You ask a very fair question. Theologically, the Mass is the vehicle through which the faithful experience the sacrificial presence of Christ. In a sense, it is a spiritual, unbloody experience of Christ’s saving act on the cross. Repeated, in a sense.

Now, with that in mind, would it be appropriate to behave any less than solemn at the foot of the “historical” cross?

So to answer your question, yes, I do believe it is inappropriate at the Mass.

 

[aloneinjax]

I won’t speak for hope7, but of course you would not be disregarded. My experiences are 95% positive and what I have witnessed is people coming to a much deeper faith that is alive with appreciation for the sacraments, the Mass, other forms of prayer. Some people enjoy the silent, quiet, reverent forms of worship. Some like to participate in joyful praise and worship. Some are uncomfortable with the joyful, exhuberant praise and worship. That’s OK! It’s not better or worse than the quiet and reverent.

When people came to the charismatic gathering we had we would tell them you don’t have to do anything you feel uncomfortable with. You can just watch or you can sing or you can join in. Just praise and worship our God however you are comfortable even if that means in silence. There was no pressure whatsoever.

I have been to beautiful Masses in beautiful cathedrals and churches (Catholic) around the world. They were all beautiful !

I have also been to wonderful Catholic charismatic gatherings with joyful, exhuberant praise followed by quiet times of deep worship. I will never forget attending the national conference about 15 years ago in Pittsburg in the same area that the Penguins one the Stanley cup (hockey) weeks earlier. This time the 18,000 people there were praising and worshipping their God! The celebration of Mass happened several times over the weekend as the central celebration, especially on Sunday.

It’s healthy to have respectful debate and discussion. It challenges us to grow. There are many scriptures describing exhuberant praise and worship going on in heaven. Read the Psalms.

Now let’s go out and share God’s love with others no matter how we pray.

Blessings to all !

Amen! We are all worshipping God, whichever way we choose to do so.