Catholic => Christian ?

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Izdaari said:
How so? Are not Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants all subsets of the larger set, Christian? :confused:
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IMHO it was arrogant because it insinuates that Catholics are not Christian. 😦
Also Catholic and Orthodox are not subsets of anything. It is as the the late Holy Father
Pope John Paul II said that we there the 2 lungs of the same Body. Protestants on the other hand have seperated themselves from that body and in some case have totally rejected it. Tthat is not to say that they are not Christian.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
IMHO it was arrogant because it insinuates that Catholics are not Christian. 😦
Also Catholic and Orthodox are not subsets of anything. It is as the the late Holy Father
Pope John Paul II said that we there the 2 lungs of the same Body. Protestants on the other hand have separated themselves from that body and in some case have totally rejected it. That is not to say that they are not Christian.
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That’s why we refer to them as our separated brothers and sisters in Christ. If you are part or a larger body and then separate yourself from the whole then you are no longer part of the Church of Christ in the true sense of being with the Church that Jesus established. In the Church established by Christ we see a seamless time line because God transcends time and space and Jesus “handed the keys to the kingdom” to Peter and gave the power to bind and loose. Further, the Holy Father represents Jesus on earth as the continued heir to the throne established by Christ to replace the seat of Moses by handing the keys to Peter.

This my friends is why the Church views Christians not in communion with the Bishop or Rome, Peter’s traditional throne as both bishop of Rome and head of the Church on earth, as separated brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
mark_a said:
How 'bout us non-charismatic Catholics?
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Well, for us, the Baptists, you are officially no brother in Christ because you haven’t decided yourself for Christ Jesus before baptism and admission to the Church. Well, and you don’t only have the Holy Bible as sacred scripture, but also the ST. So you don’t believe in sola scriptura and therefore also, only officially, remember?, not a brother in Christ.

Officially, all are brothers and sisters in Christ who believe in the Trinity, the Holy Bible (only), and that you have decided yourself, personally, for our Lord Christ Jesus!

So, I think it is easier to write down all who are NOT Brothers in Christ: The Catholic Churches (except maybe the Charismatics there), the Orthodox Churches, the 7th Day Adventists (all other Adventists - I don’t know if there is more than one denomination!), Jehovah’s Wittnesses, Oneness Pentecostal Churches (I think they are called like that, aren’t they?), the LDS, the RLDS (know Community of Christ) and all other LDS denominations (i know there are at least 3: the LDS Church, the RLDS Church and the Fundamentalists) - so I think that’s basically all.
Remember 'though, that this is the OFFICIAL teaching of the Baptist Churches!! IT IS NOT MY VIEW!

BUT, this is not really my view. I am more liberal - so, as you also believe in our Saviour Christ Jesus, for me you are also a brother in Christ.

Esdra
 
Esdra said:
Well, for us, the Baptists, you are officially no brother in Christ because you haven’t decided yourself for Christ Jesus before baptism and admission to the Church.

Esdra
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Well, most of us converts have been baptized in the Protestant faith group. What about us?
 
Justin_Mee said:
Well, most of us converts have been baptized in the Protestant faith group. What about us?
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What does it really matter whether a Baptist or other thinks we are a member of the Lord’s Church, which makes us Christian in the first place, not by man but by God. The Lord adds us to His fold. We don’t “Join” a church. Not saying a Catholic is Christian is like saying a Jew is not Jewish because he couldn’t choose on his own.
 
Justin_Mee said:
Well, most of us converts have been baptized in the Protestant faith group. What about us?
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That’s a good question. But I would say, since you have left “the true Church” you don’t count anymore… I think it is comparable if you would leave the RCC - then you are also no longer a Catholic.
Remember - that’S the official teaching of most PRotestant churches. - Not my opinion!

Esdra
 
Esdra said:
That’s a good question. But I would say, since you have left “the true Church” you don’t count anymore… I think it is comparable if you would leave the RCC - then you are also no longer a Catholic.
Remember - that’S the official teaching of most PRotestant churches. - Not my opinion!

Esdra
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Nope, once a Catholic always a Catholic. An indelible mark is placed upon your soul when you are baptized.
 
Esdra said:
Well, for us, the Baptists, you are officially no brother in Christ because you haven’t decided yourself for Christ Jesus before baptism and admission to the Church. Well, and you don’t only have the Holy Bible as sacred scripture, but also the ST. So you don’t believe in sola scriptura and therefore also, only officially, remember?, not a brother in Christ.
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Esdra, I am not sure where you get some of your ideas, (or maybe I am misinterpreting them as it seems like your primary language is not English…), but let me ask you some questions:

What makes you think that Catholics don’t believe in Jesus Christ before baptism? (I think this is what you are saying, but I could be wrong.…)

What makes you think that Catholics have something other than the Bible for Sacred Scripture? (As far as Scripture goes, the Bible is the only thing Catholics count as Sacred Scripture.)

Where do you get the teaching of Sola Scriptura? (It isn’t in Scripture, so Sola Scriptura itself would be breaking that premise. In fact, in the Bible it says that the "pillar and foundation of truth is the church…", not the Bible.)
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
IMHO it was arrogant because it insinuates that Catholics are not Christian. 😦
Also Catholic and Orthodox are not subsets of anything. It is as the the late Holy Father
Pope John Paul II said that we there the 2 lungs of the same Body. Protestants on the other hand have seperated themselves from that body and in some case have totally rejected it. That is not to say that they are not Christian.
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I intended no implication at all that Catholics are not Christian, and I don’t even see how you can get that from what I said. :confused:

Rather, I was saying that Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants are all equally Christian. I understand that many here may not agree with that view, but I believe it.

That isn’t to say I think all three branches of the faith are of equal merit and contain equal measures of the truth. If I didn’t believe the Protestant branch contained more truth, I’d convert to one of the others. But they’re all my brothers and sisters in Christ, and I do long for all three to be reunified.
 
E.E.N.S said:
…
Where do you get the teaching of Sola Scriptura? (It isn’t in Scripture, so Sola Scriptura itself would be breaking that premise. In fact, in the Bible it says that the "pillar and foundation of truth is the church…", not the Bible.)
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AMEN!!!👍
 
E.E.N.S said:
  1. What makes you think that Catholics don’t believe in Jesus Christ before baptism? (I think this is what you are saying, but I could be wrong.…)
  2. What makes you think that Catholics have something other than the Bible for Sacred Scripture? (As far as Scripture goes, the Bible is the only thing Catholics count as Sacred Scripture.)
3)Where do you get the teaching of Sola Scriptura? (It isn’t in Scripture, so Sola Scriptura itself would be breaking that premise. In fact, in the Bible it says that the "pillar and foundation of truth is the church…", not the Bible.)
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Hi,

Answers:
Did I say they don’t believe in him? No, I guess not! I meant that they have to invite Jesus in their lives and promise to obey Him (this is the Holy Bible). So the baptism becomes a “faith baptism” and you need that to be saved. So you basically have to accept Jesus as your Lord. I mean I also was a Catholic, so I believed in Jesus - but I didn’t know that you have to decide yourself personally for Jesus!
Sola Scriptura is what ALL Protestants believe in. The term comes from Luther. It means that the Holy Bible is the only basis of faith!
  1. The Catholics have next to the Holy Bible also the Sacred Tradition (this is mainly the Catechism). Together with the Holy Bible this is the basis of believe for Catholics.
    I mean we Protestants also have Catechisms BUT, as there is no dogma, it is not our basis of faith. (Especially the Lutherans have Catechisms - 2: the big and the small one.
Esdra
 
Did you realize that ALL Christians have to validate their faith in Christ each and everyday? It’s not about this form prayer that someone makes once or twice in their lifetime, it’s about waking up, and DECIDING that Christ is their saviour, each and every single day. What you need to be saved is “showing” Jesus that he didn’t die in vain, that we were worth his death, that we were worth saving. That and baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit at any age (preferably infancy).
 
Loboto-Me said:
Did you realize that ALL Christians have to validate their faith in Christ each and everyday? It’s not about this form prayer that someone makes once or twice in their lifetime, it’s about waking up, and DECIDING that Christ is their saviour, each and every single day. What you need to be saved is “showing” Jesus that he didn’t die in vain, that we were worth his death, that we were worth saving. That and baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit at any age (preferably infancy).
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Unfortunately many Protestants believe OSAS. However, not all. We didn’t and used to debate Baptists and “non-denominational” Christians using scripture to prove them wrong. Thus “proof-texting” which really doesn’t work. BCV this BCV that. Round and round we go… docey do. Grab your partner round and round… What a square dance for Christians that don’t even dance.
 
Esdra said:
Remember 'though, that this is the OFFICIAL teaching of the Baptist Churches!! IT IS NOT MY VIEW!

BUT, this is not really my view. I am more liberal
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Why would you be a member of a church who’s OFFICIAL teaching is not your view?
 
I can answer that! holds hand up in the air Me! Me!

The same reason we have some nominal catholics everywhere and even on these forums that stick around even if their view of our official doctrine doesn’t match up with their own, almost making it a new “personal” religion for themselves.
 
Loboto-Me said:
I can answer that! holds hand up in the air Me! Me!

The same reason we have some nominal Catholics everywhere and even on these forums that stick around even if their view of our official doctrine doesn’t match up with their own, almost making it a new “personal” religion for themselves.
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It seems the popularized beliefs among many Catholics tend to really be make your own, like it’s some sort of recipe. Frankly, I get a sneaky feeling its caused from mental illness. People try to create their own feel good spirituality.
 
Loboto-Me said:
I can answer that! holds hand up in the air Me! Me!

The same reason we have some nominal catholics everywhere and even on these forums that stick around even if their view of our official doctrine doesn’t match up with their own, almost making it a new “personal” religion for themselves.
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Maybe a cafeteria Baptist, so to speak?
 
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