Catholic Church and democracy

  • Thread starter Thread starter ratio1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

ratio1

Guest
Theoretically and hypothetically can the Catholic Church become a democracy? (Eg All Catholics vote for a pope rather than Cardinals) or is this prohibited by doctrine?

Update1
I agree with all the comments thus far but I’m just wondering whether there are more solid quotes or passages which illustrate this point.
After all democracy can be a continuum.
Jesus chose Peter. Peter probably chose his successor. BUt now the Pope is elected through the college of cardinals. What’s not to say the college of cardinals might be broadened to include all bishops and then all Catholics.
Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t want this to happen. I’m just asking whether there are doctrine Scripture or Tradition etc to back this up.
 
Last edited:
What do you mean by “prohibited by doctrine”? Are you talking about infallible, unchangeable, there-is-no-other-possibility doctrine? Are you talking about a “if a Pope is elected any other way, his succession must be invalid” type of thing?
 
Authority in the Church is top down, not bottom up. We are accountable to God through His Church. The Church cannot be a democracy

We can and should express our views to those in authority over us, but they are under no obligation to comply with our wishes. As Pope John Paul II once said, the truth is not always the same as the majority decision.
 
Last edited:
The authority of the Church is one the most important things that separates the Catholic Church and some Protestant ones.

People can’t vote on what’s the objective truth the same way we vote on what tax policy we want! Let’s leave that to the educated experts.
 
RedFan said:
What do you mean by “prohibited by doctrine”? Are you talking about infallible, unchangeable, there-is-no-other-possibility doctrine? Are you talking about a “if a Pope is elected any other way, his succession must be invalid” type of thing?
Click to expand...
Neither. I’m simply asking whether there are scriptural or apostolic tradition references that would prohibit or contradict the notion that the Pope could be elected through a democratic system.
 
Last edited:
Brendan_64 said:
Authority in the Church is top down, not bottom up. We are accountable to God through His Church. The Church cannot be a democracy
Click to expand...
I understand this and I totally agree but I’m just asking for references and evidence.
 
The Church on Earth (the Church Militant) is basically a forward operating base of the Church in Heaven (the Church Triumphant). Heaven can’t be a democracy, Christ reigns as King, as such His Church can’t be a democracy either.
 
I agree with all the comments thus far but I’m just wondering whether there are more solid quotes or passages which illustrate this point.
After all democracy can be a continuum.
Jesus chose Peter. Peter probably chose his successor. BUt now the Pope is elected through the college of cardinals. What’s not to say the college of cardinals might be broadened to include all bishops and then all Catholics.
Please don’t get me wrong. I don’t want this to happen. I’m just asking whether there are doctrine Scripture or Tradition etc to back this up.
 
The fact that it’s never been done before and to change it would break tradition in my opinion, which means it won’t be considered.
 
So when the College of Cardinals was set up that was not a break in tradition from before?
 
Honestly hadn’t considered that lol, I’m not sure how it was done before the college cardinals.
 
ratio1 said:
Theoretically and hypothetically can the Catholic Church become a democracy? (Eg All Catholics vote for a pope rather than Cardinals) or is this prohibited by doctrine?
Click to expand...
Jesus is The King, not the President.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Authority in the Church is top down, not bottom up. We are accountable to God through His Church. The Church cannot be a democracy
Click to expand...
Then why is the infallible leader, the Pope, chosen by democratic vote instead of appointed by God?
 
Even in the Bible, Bishops were always chosen by the Apostles, other Bishops, or those they specifically commissioned (like Paul) to create local Churches (dioceses) and appoint elders (Bishops). Never has there been evidence of Bishops being ordained or installed by the priestly clergy, let alone the laity. There was examples of Kings appointing Bishops, but technically, he commanded the bishops to install or ordain the candidate. This was called the Investiture Controversy and was condemned and resolved in 1122 in the Concordat of Worms. In the early days of the Church, the candidate for a bishop for an empty Diocese was elected by the local priests (this is where the College of Cardinals originates from as they are considered priests of Rome) and then was presented to the bishops of the area to be confirmed as the new Bishop and ordained and installed. It was perfectly within their power to reject the candidate and call another vote among the clergy. The Pope is allowed to be immediately installed (or ordained for those historical candidates who were priests or deacons) because the college of cardinals are Bishops themselves.
 
Last edited:
Theoretically that could happen, but it wouldn’t make the Church a democracy. In a democracy, authority is vested in the people. In the Church, authority is vested directly in the bishops (especially the bishop of Rome) by Christ–they are not delegates of anyone other than Christ. In fact, it would be the Pope and bishops who would be delegating the authority to choose successors to the people, not the other way around.
 
ratio1 said:
Theoretically and hypothetically can the Catholic Church become a democracy? (Eg All Catholics vote for a pope rather than Cardinals) or is this prohibited by doctrine?
Click to expand...
The method of papal selection is not doctrinal. The method has varied greatly over time. It could vary again in the future, and it could certainly include laity. Most likely it would include laity and clergy of the diocese of Rome, rather than the entire would which would be both unwieldy and complicated, because after all the Pope is their bishop.

We do not know the method of selection in the earliest days of the Church, only who the successors were not how they were selected. But, in the early period of around 200-500 or so, we do know that the clergy and laity of Rome participated in the selection of their bishop. Election, appointment of a successor, and appointment or confirmation by the Emperor or another secular ruler all varied through the first millennium.

The current process came into being under Pope Nicholas II in 1059. While there have been modifications through the years, the process is basically unchanged since that time.

Selection of the bishop of Rome through a participatory method would not “make the Church a democracy”.
 
Last edited:
does anyone know how the papacy passed from Peter to Linus? It may help us figure this out…
 
Can you imagine the undignified campaigning this would result in if everyone voted? What some Cardinals bragged about doing in the most recent papal election was bad enough as it is.
 
KevinK said:
Then why is the infallible leader, the Pope, chosen by democratic vote instead of appointed by God?
Click to expand...
Cardinals are chosen by the Pope to appoint his successor. The authority to choose the next pope is devolved from the Pope. This authority is given to them from the top down, not from the bottom up as in a democracy.

As for the infallibility of the Pope, he is only infallible under strict, limited circumstances.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top