Catholic Church and the Muslims?

[Modestly_Anne]

I’m sure this has been asked before, but I’m not very good with finding older posts so if you could just answer it simply here, I would be very appreciative as I continue to discern the Catholic Church I want to understand all I can.

What does the following mean? Is it, exactly as it says, because I understood that Muslims only see Christ as a prophet and that they also deny that Christ was actually ever crucified, but I could be wrong in my understanding, which is why I ask?

Is this similar somehow to the belief that the Jews are His chosen people. Are the Muslims also considered chosen people and if so has the Catholic Church always held this belief, from the earliest times and is there some scripture reference in the Old Testament or somewhere that would support this?

“Catholic Catechism, par. 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. ‘The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.’ [LG 16; cf. NA 3.]”

Then from the Koran where it denies Christ’s being Crucified…

Koran Sura (Chapter) 4 verse 157 “But they killed him [Christ] not nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them. They killed him not. Nay, God raised him up unto himself.”

Koran Sura 5 verse 78 “Christ, the Son of Mary, was no more than an apostle.”

Koran Sura 5 verse 75 “They do blaspheme who say God is Christ, the Son of Mary.”

Thank you so much for your help

 

[Spencerian]

This past thread on the subject of Christ and his divinity in the eyes of Islam may be insightful to you.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Thank you. I just read through the whole thread. It had some interesting posts, but also seemed to have many Catholics denying that the Church teaches that God’s plan of salvation includes the Muslims who of course deny Christ’s divinity.

I guess I’m just having trouble understanding why just because they believe in the God of Abraham they would be saved, since they do not follow Jewish law (well at least that is the way I understand, but I admit to knowing very little about their religion) and they do not accept Christ as the Son of God nor seek him through the shedding of his blood for the atonement of our sins. So I guess I’m trying to understand why the Catholic Church believes they will be saved? Of course anything is possible with God, but why does the Catholic Church believe they will be?

I also noticed some of the Catholic’s saying they disagreed with the Pope’s stance on the matter, but yet it seems to be in the Catechism, as I posted above?

Do Catholic’s not need to believe everything in the Catechism? People always suggest reading it to understand what the Church teaches, so now i’m even more confused.

 

[Spencerian]

Thank you. I just read through the whole thread. It had some interesting posts, but also seemed to have many Catholics denying that the Church teaches that God’s plan of salvation includes the Muslims who of course deny Christ’s divinity.

I guess I’m just having trouble understanding why just because they believe in the God of Abraham they would be saved, since they do not follow Jewish law (well at least that is the way I understand, but I admit to knowing very little about their religion) and they do not accept Christ as the Son of God nor seek him through the shedding of his blood for the atonement of our sins. So I guess I’m trying to understand why the Catholic Church believes they will be saved? Of course anything is possible with God, but why does the Catholic Church believe they will be?

I also noticed some of the Catholic’s saying they disagreed with the Pope’s stance on the matter, but yet it seems to be in the Catechism, as I posted above?

Do Catholic’s not need to believe everything in the Catechism? People always suggest reading it to understand what the Church teaches, so now i’m even more confused.

I’m probably not the best to go into how Muslims see atonement or salvation.

You are right. Anything is possible with God. In the matter of salvation, Catholics do believe that the only means of salvation is with the Catholic Church (CCC 846).

But what does the Church embody? Christ. What does Christ also embody? Truth.

Christ expects only of his flock that they adhere to what they know once they know the truth within Him. That is, Christ does not expect those who do not hear of the Gospel and his Church to be bound by it’s teachings. He expresses this in John 9:41.

So, a Protestant that never knew of the Catholic teachings but held to his faith traditions as piously as he was taught sought the truth and, thus, salvation through Christ is possible. A Buddhist that lived piously also sought truth and, having never known God, may find him. A Muslim may also seek truth this way and, thus, Christ.

Even an atheist that holds to truth, charity and humility may find Christ.

But in all these cases, your odds in salvation may greatly increase in the fullness of faith as a member of the Catholic Church.

The Catechism teaches our beliefs. But not all teachings in the Catechism are required belief by the faithful.

 

[CompSciGuy]

I think all the Church really says about the Muslims is that they worship the same God as us (though with insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Him.) The Church still affirms that Jesus is the only way to heaven. The difference between the Church and most evangelical protestants is that the Church recognizes that there are circumstances (which are generally the result of human free will) such that a person can, through no fault of their own, not know or fully understand the gospel, either because they never heard it or because they’ve received insufficient or inaccurate information, or have been brainwashed, etc. God knows all these things and will judge them accordingly. This takes the responsibility of judging the hearts of men away from us and gives it to God. What a relief! We don’t have to go around thinking “Oh my gosh, my muslim friends are going to burn in hell forever!” Our job is to live the gospel and pray for the conversion of sinners, and, of course, spread the good news.

I think there are two extremes of thinking in Christianity. There is the one where you absolutely believe everyone who doesn’t have explicit faith in Jesus will go straight to hell, and thus use all kinds of fear tactics to try and win people to Christ, which usually don’t work long term; the other is that you think all people will eventually go to heaven so you take on the attitude of “to each his own.” It’s pretty clear from scriptures that we are to tell other people the good news. And there isn’t any need to water it down; the gospel isn’t just something we accept for a better life or a good self-esteem, it is for our salvation. We want to tell the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, New Agers, Pagans and others about Jesus so that they may believe unto their salvation. Because, again, salvation is through Christ.

Evangelism is part of the work of bringing about the kingdom of God. We plant the seeds, everything else is up to God.

 

[Hboggs]

The Catechism teaches our beliefs. But not all teachings in the Catechism are required belief by the faithful.

I am confused by this statement and would appreciate references to specific teachings which the faithful are not required to believe.

In the Apostolic Constitution Fidei Depositum, section 3 (The Doctrinal Value of the Text), “The Catechism of the Catholic Church … is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. … This catechism is … a sure and authentic reference text for teaching catholic doctrine …”

Thank you.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

The CCC says the plan of salvation includes all people who acknowledge the Creator…that does not mean that all who acknowledge the Creator are saved. God’s plan of salvation is meant for ALL mankind. He desires all men to be saved and Jesus shed his blood for all mankind. The Catechism is simply acknowledging that Muslims do adore the God of Abraham. But that does not mean they are saved, nor is the Catholic Church saying that they are saved. The Church is merely saying they have the possibility to be saved by Jesus Christ, if they, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ or His Church and they are seeking God with a sincere heart. I would say many Muslims are indeed seeking God with a sincere heart. The first part is a little trickier. Ignorance of Christ is something that really only God will be able to see. However, if He does see there is a soul who is seeking Him, who has never had the Gospel proclaimed to him or her, who are we to say that He cannot save that person? Who are we to say that He, in His infinite mercy, could not appear to that person in the final moments of their life and give them the chance to accept Him as Lord? That is all the Church is trying to say. We cannot limit the mercy of God and we cannot judge a person’s soul. We do not know how God may be working with them; especially at the time of death. However, that being said I want to reiterate that all salvation is from the life, death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father but through Him. This is the teaching of Scripture and the Church. No one in the Church is saying that Islam saves, or Judaism saves, etc. It is only Jesus Christ through Whom we can be saved…

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Thank you. I just read through the whole thread. It had some interesting posts, but also seemed to have many Catholics denying that the Church teaches that God’s plan of salvation includes the Muslims who of course deny Christ’s divinity.

I guess I’m just having trouble understanding why just because they believe in the God of Abraham they would be saved, since they do not follow Jewish law (well at least that is the way I understand, but I admit to knowing very little about their religion) and they do not accept Christ as the Son of God nor seek him through the shedding of his blood for the atonement of our sins. So I guess I’m trying to understand why the Catholic Church believes they will be saved? Of course anything is possible with God, but why does the Catholic Church believe they will be?

I also noticed some of the Catholic’s saying they disagreed with the Pope’s stance on the matter, but yet it seems to be in the Catechism, as I posted above?

Do Catholic’s not need to believe everything in the Catechism? People always suggest reading it to understand what the Church teaches, so now i’m even more confused.

The Catholic Church does not state that you can be saved by following Islam. Just like it doesn’t say that following the Jewish tradition is a valid way of reaching communion with God.

What the Church does teach, however, is that, in the event one may not have the full knowledge to be able to accurately discern the truth (Christianity, specifically Catholicism), they therefore might have a chance of being saved out of God’s mercy. It certainly does not mean that you can just simply stay a Muslim and that you have some sort of guarantee to salvation.

 

[CompSciGuy]

The CCC says the plan of salvation includes all people who acknowledge the Creator…that does not mean that all who acknowledge the Creator are saved. God’s plan of salvation is meant for ALL mankind. He desires all men to be saved and Jesus shed his blood for all mankind. The Catechism is simply acknowledging that Muslims do adore the God of Abraham. But that does not mean they are saved, nor is the Catholic Church saying that they are saved. The Church is merely saying they have the possibility to be saved by Jesus Christ, if they, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ or His Church and they are seeking God with a sincere heart. I would say many Muslims are indeed seeking God with a sincere heart. The first part is a little trickier. Ignorance of Christ is something that really only God will be able to see. However, if He does see there is a soul who is seeking Him, who has never had the Gospel proclaimed to him or her, who are we to say that He cannot save that person? Who are we to say that He, in His infinite mercy, could not appear to that person in the final moments of their life and give them the chance to accept Him as Lord? That is all the Church is trying to say. We cannot limit the mercy of God and we cannot judge a person’s soul. We do not know how God may be working with them; especially at the time of death. However, that being said I want to reiterate that all salvation is from the life, death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father but through Him. This is the teaching of Scripture and the Church. No one in the Church is saying that Islam saves, or Judaism saves, etc. It is only Jesus Christ through Whom we can be saved…

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[SnakeMauler]

You’d think it’d say the first people are “Jews”, but its stupid that the catcheism mentions another religion, it’s way out of line and just another dumb reason to turn people away.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

You’d think it’d say the first people are “Jews”, but its stupid that the catcheism mentions another religion, it’s way out of line and just another dumb reason to turn people away.

While I see your point, but I think it is important to look at the the whole section. The first discussion in this section of the Catechism talks about the universality of the Church, saying "“All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation.” It then talks about our relationship to other Christians, particularly noting our closeness with the Orthodox. Next is the section that talks about the Jews saying in 839:

“Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, “the first to hear the Word of God.” The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”

THEN after those discussions are the remarks about the Muslims. I think that the Church has become keenly aware that many Christians believe the Muslims of worship another God. And the Church wanted to make clear that it does not hold that view. I agree it is odd language to say “first among them” particularly in light of the fact that the Muslims were the last among the Abrahamic religions to be discussed. A bit ironic, eh? I would hope that anyone who is seeking the truth of the Church would look at the entire section and not just get caught up on that entry.