Catholic Church, catholic church, and Roman Catholic Church

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Eucharisted

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Many centuries ago, a lie was fabricated about the Catholic Church. This lie has since been around and is popular among non-Catholics, especially those who are ignorant of the truth. That lie is that there is a difference between Catholic and catholic and that the Catholic Church is properly called Roman Catholic. By God’s grace, I will prove this lie to be wrong.

So, where dose it stem from? A misunderstanding of Greek, actually. The Greek Father Saint Ignatius of Antioch wrote, “Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church.” In ancient Greek, there are no capitals, so his words would actually read “where the bishop is present there is the catholic church.” Some non-Catholics saw that “Catholic Church” wasn’t capitalized in the ancient Greek and conclided that the saint was not referring to the Church under the Vicar of Christ but to something else: the so-called “general church”, as some refer to the collection of Christians.

However, this is a lie against the Catholic Church’s catholicity, as well as a lie against Jesus Christ. Jesus said that there were sheep who were not of His flock, but that they would soon join so that there would be one flock and one shepherd. His words actually have multiple meanings: they first refer to the Gentiles, who were not yet part of Israel; they secondly refer to the schsmatics and heretics of the early Church, whom had left the Church; and they thirdly refer to non-Christians who are not members of the Church. The shepherd Christ refers to is Himself, just as the father in the parable of the prodigal son is Himself, and the flock of sheep He refers to is, naturally, the New Israel, the Church. The Lord referred to Israel as His sheep, and He as their shepherd, multiple times in the Old Testament. So of course this imagery, which every Jew was familiar with, would be used by the Lord to refer to His New People. Now, the lie of “a collection of Christian” is a lie against the Catholic Church’s catholicity for precisely the above reason: Christ wants everyone to join His Church, He wants His Church to be universal - catholic - and so to claim that the Church is already fully universal when she in fact bears wounds to unity is a falsehood meant to destroy the Church’s credibility. There is no “general church”, there is only One Church, just as there is only One Eucharist, One Body, One Mediator, and One God, and those separated brethern whom live in Christ by virtue of baptism are, in a mysterious way, albeit not directly given their separation, members of the Catholic Church.

A lie that is sometimes used to support the lie that the Catholic Church which Ignatius speaks of is not the very same Catholic Church is that there is a difference in meaning between Catholic and catholic. While some do believe this, and such duel definitions of one word can be found in some dictionaries, it is - again - a misunderstanding. Indeed, dictionaries are themselves filled with personal opinions at times - for example, the Marriam-Webster dictionaries claims Jesus Christ is not God but a Jewish rabbi whom Christians worship. The word “catholic” means universal, not general, and it only has one definition in the ancient Greek, not two or three. So to take one word and give it duel meanings is deceiving, just as it is deceiving to take the Arabic word for “prayer” and give it two different meanings.

Regarding the insult “Roman Catholic Church”, it actually began as a misunderstanding as well. But now it is used to insult us Catholic Christians, to call us followers of the anti-Christ and haters of Christ. The term stems from a misunderstanding of “Roman Church” or “Holy Roman Church”, an ancient phrase for the Church in Rome. For example, Saint Irenæus says, “For the entire Church, that is all the faithful in the world, should be in agreement with this Roman Church, because of its superior preeminence; and in it all the faithful have preserved the Apostolic Tradition”.
 
Eucharisted, I grew up in the Catholic Church, went to Catholic grade school in the 30’s and 40’s and have always called myself a “Roman Catholic.” That is what we were called then and what I still call myself.

I have never ever heard that the term Roman Catholic was put forth by non-Catholics as an insult, except once on CAF. At that time I asked my Priest about this senario and he said it was the silliest thing he had ever heard, and he was a young Priest.

I am with him. I am a Roman Catholic (under the authority of Rome) and will always so be. :highprayer:
 
“Roman Catholic” can also refer to the particular church, in contrast to Melkite Catholic, Ukrainian Catholic, Coptic Catholic, etc.
 
Eucharisted, I grew up in the Catholic Church, went to Catholic grade school in the 30’s and 40’s and have always called myself a “Roman Catholic.” That is what we were called then and what I still call myself.

I have never ever heard that the term Roman Catholic was put forth by non-Catholics as an insult, except once on CAF. At that time I asked my Priest about this senario and he said it was the silliest thing he had ever heard, and he was a young Priest.

I am with him. I am a Roman Catholic (under the authority of Rome) and will always so be. :highprayer:
You are a Catholic and a Catholic is under the authority of Rome. Are the Eastern Catholics not under Rome? They, too, are Catholic. If you wish to speak about your church and rite, the proper term is Latin Catholic.
 
Eucharisted, please don’t tell me what to call myself. I was taught by the Holy Sisters and Priests of times gone by. I will continue to call myself a Roman Catholic. You call yourself whatever you wish, but don’t presume to tell others what their “proper” title is.
 
Every Catholic who has served in the military since before WWII is also wrong then… because they stamp “RC” on dog tags, not “LC” or any other variation. I don’t take the term as derogatory in any way, if anything it seems a bit redundant is all.
 
Every Catholic who has served in the military since before WWII is also wrong then… because they stamp “RC” on dog tags, not “LC” or any other variation. I don’t take the term as derogatory in any way, if anything it seems a bit redundant is all.
and all of those parishes that say “_______ Roman Catholic church” 🤷

“Latin” Catholic and “Roman” Catholic are used interchangeably to refer to the particular church.
 
You are a Catholic and a Catholic is under the authority of Rome. Are the Eastern Catholics not under Rome? They, too, are Catholic. If you wish to speak about your church and rite, the proper term is Latin Catholic.
Eucharisted, please don’t tell me what to call myself. I was taught by the Holy Sisters and Priests of times gone by. I will continue to call myself a Roman Catholic. You call yourself whatever you wish, but don’t presume to tell others what their “proper” title is.
Actually, both Roman Catholic rite and Latin Catholic rite are proper terms (depending on who one is addressing).
 
Latin Catholic is a term not heard in the Roman Catholic Church until after all the other mis-interpretations of V2.
 
Hi,

I went to parochial schools in the 60’s and 70’s. The term Roman Catholic was used by the priests and nuns who taught me. I have always called myself Roman Catholic. Latin Catholic is a fairly new term (at least to me).

Peace,

Jean
 
Eucharisted, I grew up in the Catholic Church, went to Catholic grade school in the 30’s and 40’s and have always called myself a “Roman Catholic.” That is what we were called then and what I still call myself.
My experience as well. I grew up in the fifties and sixties.

My parents called themselves Roman Catholics, and they were from widely different cultural/ethnic backgrounds… my priests and nuns taught us to refer to ourselves as Roman Catholics.

One will find parishes in countries all over the world which identify with the term in their signage and on their letterheads.

The Greek Orthodox of the former Byzantine empire refer to them selves (and are known as) Rum Katholik… Roman Catholic! They identify with their Roman heritage and are justly proud. 🙂 They know that the nation stood for 1000 years longer in the east, it was the empire of Theodosios and Justinian.

Later, under the Turkish oppression they were classified as the Rum (“Roman”) Millet as the Byzantine Christian community (Melchites, or “royalists” before the fall). This term distinguished them from other minority groups in the region who were definitely not “Roman” nor “Catholic”, such as the Armenians (monophysite), the Syrians (monophysite), the Maronites (orthodox-monothelite), the east Syrian/Mesopotamians (Nestorian) and the Copts (monophysite).

The term in the east is certainly much older than the reformation era, my first guess would be that it was in use across the Mediterranean region (from Turkey and Syria in the east to Spain and Morocco in the west) in the first millenium, even before the Franks came to dominate the western church.

http://byzantium.seashell.net.nz/images/pageimages/map565_base.gif
Empire of Justinian 565AD

So the earliest use for the term I can find as a certainty is not pejorative, but was used proudly across a region of many modern nations today.
 
Eucharisted, I grew up in the Catholic Church, went to Catholic grade school in the 30’s and 40’s and have always called myself a “Roman Catholic.” That is what we were called then and what I still call myself.

I have never ever heard that the term Roman Catholic was put forth by non-Catholics as an insult, except once on CAF. At that time I asked my Priest about this senario and he said it was the silliest thing he had ever heard, and he was a young Priest.

I am with him. I am a Roman Catholic (under the authority of Rome) and will always so be. :highprayer:
I agree with you there. I was taught that RC just means we are in complete agreement with the Pope.
 
… that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet …
 
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