Catholic Church condemnation of Communism or Socialism

[Brendan_64]

While acknowledging the reality that they were not communists, we also need to understand that the free enterprise system only began to evolve from the Catholic monasteries in the ninth century as described in posts #12 and 15.

That is not correct. Free enterprise did not simply arise in the 9th century (in Catholic monasteries or otherwise). Free enterprise is simply a more complex representation of the barter system which has been around since the Stone Age.

Using the Catholic Church as a justification for holding strong beliefs in the ‘goodness’ of Capitalism is quite wrong.

I am not condemning capitalism, but within our market driven society greed is in huge abundance, and an environment where companies exist primarily to generate revenue for individuals owners and shareholders (often at the expense of personal circumstances of employees who are often regarded as expendable ‘cogs in the wheel’) is commonplace. We see companies (such as cigarette manufacturers and arms producers) moving to exploit oversees markets (where people can be more vulnerable) when domestic markets curtail their activities to protect the welfare domestic populations. You hear some in the financial sector referring to their company’s activities as being “morally neutral”.

Not all businesses operate in this, but to pretend that many do not is to deny reality. These companies are a product of free-market capitalism. Greed is a considerable motivating factor within capitalism. The Church’s teaching cannot be used to justify the worship of Mammon.

 

[Abu]

Brendan 64 #32
Free enterprise did not simply arise in the 9th century (in Catholic monasteries or otherwise). Free enterprise is simply a more complex representation of the barter system which has been around since the Stone Age.

In the light of the facts presented, which have not and cannot be refuted, such a fantasy is puerile.
Further Bl John Paul II in *Centesimus Annus *and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI in Caritas et Veritate have taken the trouble to teach the approval of free enterprise while stressing that “Society does not have to protect itself from the market, as if the development of the latter were ipso facto to entail the death of authentically human relations…Therefore it is not the instrument that must be called to account, but individuals, their moral conscience and their personal and social responsibility” in Caritas et Veritate, Benedict XVI, 2009, #36, thus pointing to the greed present in mankind.

Greed is a considerable motivating factor within capitalism. The Church’s teaching cannot be used to justify the worship of Mammon.

Greed is present in mankind throughout society, but no economic laws encourage “hoarding of wealth” and greed – some PEOPLE hoard wealth, some people are greedy. No wealth can be created until it is produced – that’s why the Catholic Late Scholastic system works so well to enable everyone to produce some wealth and to do with it as they choose through free-will. The economic laws are based on the principles of human action – of cause and effect involving God-given reason.

It is high time to face reality in the teaching of the Church. Wealth can be distributed only after it is produced.

 

[Brendan_64]

In the light of the facts presented, which have not and cannot be refuted, such a fantasy is puerile.

So you are saying that prior to the 9th century people did not engage in free enterprise? So prior to the 9th century the generation and distribution of wealth was completely state controlled? That is clearly incorrect.

It is high time to face reality in the teaching of the Church. Wealth can be distributed only after it is produced.

That is simply common sense, and can by no reasonable stretch of the imagination be seen as an endorsement of free-market capitalism by our Church.

As to your point about greed being present within mankind, yes that is the case, but there ARE a great many companies where the generation of profit for the owners and shareholders is seen as the prime objective and main reason for existence of the company, and employees are seen simply as expendable resources whose only purpose is to help generate profit, and other people are seen merely as consumers to be milked for what they can spend and be exploited. Rather than being an unfortunate side-effect, greed is actually one of the engines that drives capitalism.

Of course not all companies behave like this, but a lot of companies do, and this seems particularly blatant in the very large powerful corporations. Cigarette companies moving into 3rd world countries and marketing their lethal products aggressively since western nations have curtailed this to protect their own people. Biotechnology companies market their products and supply them with legal restrictions that damage individual farmers livelihoods (as well as causing great environmental damage). Drug companies charge exhorbitant rates for their products leaving people to die, when vast amounts of lives could be saved and the companies could still make profit. Arms companies, dealing weapons of death to the highest bidder, regardless of what they are likely to do with them (“not our problem” the arms manufacturers would say). Clothing suppliers paying workers in third world companies buttons (often employing children) and having them work in dreadful conditions, just so they can gain a ‘competitive advantage’ in the marketplace. The financial sector where the havoc wreaked upon ordinary people as a result of bankers drive to take huge risks (with other people’s money) in order to gain huge rewards (for themselves) and then the notion of being ‘morally neutral’ in terms of the actions they take (there is no such thing as moral neutrality).

We all know this, and we all know what drives all of this, GREED. Such companies do not represent a small percentage of the wealth generated through capitalism, they represent a large proportion of the wealth generated.

I am not condemning capitalism, nor am I saying that all companies operate like this, but personal greed is a major driving engine within capitalism. To say that our Church supports capitalism, as such, is incorrect. Our Church does not support a system where greed is one of the major motivating factors driving that system.

 

[Abu]

Brendan 64 #34
So prior to the 9th century the generation and distribution of wealth was completely state controlled?

There was no comparable “generation and distribution of wealth” prior to that which developed following the beginnings of free enterprise in the great Catholic monasteries in the ninth century which eventually replaced the serfs and feudalism and led to the escape from poverty of untold millions through the enterprises that followed the “Industrial Revolution”.

can by no reasonable stretch of the imagination be seen as an endorsement of free-market capitalism by our Church.

There is no point in continuing to try to discredit the Popes who have so manifestly supported free enterprise – that is myopia, monotonously without any evidence

I am not condemning capitalism

That is a welcome realization, especially as the Popes have understood and expressed the necessity of producing wealth so that it can be shared, as well as the poor helped.

 

[Brendan_64]

There is no point in continuing to try to discredit the Popes who have so manifestly supported free enterprise – that is myopia, monotonously without any evidence.

Free enterprise is one thing, but that is not the same as free market capitalism. On an individual basis, the ability to generate an income from one’s own endeavours is quite correct and ought to be supported as a human right.

This is however entirely different from the system of free market capitalism that controls much of the wealth in our society. A system which regards the generation of profit as its main aim, and where people are exploited and regarded either as expendable cogs in the wheel, or as consumers, dehumanises people and reduces their worth to nothing more than the income they can generate or spend. This is driven by greed. We can all skirt around it, but we all know that this is the case with many of the most powerful corporations that drive the capitalist system. Our Church teachings do not support this system.

Trying to argue that because our Church teachings support free enterprise, and capitalism has its roots in free enterprise, that therefore our Church teachings support capitalism, is simplistic to the point of being quite wrong. You might as well try to argue that since our Church teachings supports sharing wealth with others, and since socialism has its roots in sharing wealth with others, that our Church teachings support socialism.

Our Church neither supports capitalism or socialism, and in fact condemns excesses within both systems.

 

[Abu]

Brendan 64 #36
Free enterprise is one thing, but that is not the same as free market capitalism.

Nonsense.

Relearn from the acknowledged St John Paul II in Centesimus Annus, 42, 1991:
‘If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”.’

Our Church neither supports capitalism or socialism, and in fact condemns excesses within both systems.

The erroneous assertions continue *ad nauseam *without evidence. The facts have been substantiated by Popes and the revered Fr James V Schall, S.J., among many others. What are condemned are the personal traits evidenced by greed, deceit and cheating which have no place in any human activity. Individual morality determines how owners, managers and employees treat each other and the customers, which requires the morality taught by Christ’s Church. That’s why we have laws to seek and punish those who steal, cheat, swindle, and worse crimes. That’s why we have the Catholic Church to guide us – She who invented charity in the West. It’s time to face reality.

Socialism has been roundly condemned by Papal social teaching, while free enterprise has been clearly affirmed. “Capitalism” is a Marxist term which the acknowledged St John Paul II has discouraged as you should know by now.

Pius XI declared emphatically in Quadragesimo Anno, 1931, #120: “If Socialism, like all errors, contains some truth (which, moreover, the Supreme Pontiffs have never denied), it is based nevertheless on a theory of human society peculiar to itself and irreconcilable with true Christianity. Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.”

From Bl John Paul II in Centesimus Annus, 1991:
#48. “Another task of the State is that of overseeing and directing the exercise of human rights in the economic sector. However, primary responsibility in this area belongs not to the State but to individuals and to the various groups and associations which make up society. The State could not directly ensure the right to work for all its citizens unless it controlled every aspect of economic life and restricted the free initiative of individuals. This does not mean, however, that the State has no competence in this domain, as was claimed by those who argued against any rules in the economic sphere. Rather, the State has a duty to sustain business activities by creating conditions which will ensure job opportunities, by stimulating those activities where they are lacking or by supporting them in moments of crisis.

“In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called “Welfare State”. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the “Social Assistance State”. Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.”

Bono now says capitalism is the answer.
George Ayittey, an African entrepreneur, met Bono in 2007 and gave the rock star a copy of his book, Africa Unchained: The Blueprint For Development. Some of it must have taken hold, as Bono has come to acknowledge that foreign aid is merely a “stopgap” for poverty, not a realistic solution.
blog.acton.org/archives/58688-bono-affirms-that-capitalism-alleviates-poverty-more-than-aid.html

 

[Brendan_64]

What are condemned are the personal traits evidenced by greed, deceit and cheating

And you really think that greed is not a major driving force within the system we know today as capitalism? You think that companies are not driven primarily by the goal of generating profit for the owners and shareholders of those companies? You really think that employees are not seen as ‘human resources’ whose function is to generate that profit for owners and shareholders?

You speak of the need to regulate capitalism with laws (which makes it no longer free-market capitalism). That may provide protection to us in western democracies, but corporations them simply move to more vulnerable markets to exploit people there (cigarette companies, biotech companies, etc.). Look around you, how many of our stores are able to offer cheap products as a result of exploiting workers overseas who toil in dangerous sweatshop conditions so that our kids can have cheap clothes? The competitive nature of capitalism encourages is based around companies providing products at the lowest possible cost, to meet our desire for cheap goods, and this competition means that companies end doing whatever they can to produce cheap products, regardless of the human cost.

Much of the wealth produced by capitalism is based on greed, with owners of companies wanting to make as much personal wealth as they can, by providing products that can satisfy consumer desires to spend as little as they can.

The system of capitalism is not the same as free enterprise. Free enterprise is the right for someone to be able to sell the product of his talents in order to make a decent living. It is the relentless, vicious, competitive nature of the ‘marketplace’ that gives rise to capitalism. Because the Church supports free enterprise, it does not follow that it automatically supports capitalism.

 

[Abu]

Brendan 64 #38
You speak of the need to regulate capitalism with laws (which makes it no longer free-market capitalism).
The system of capitalism is not the same as free enterprise.
It is the relentless, vicious, competitive nature of the ‘marketplace’ that gives rise to capitalism. Because the Church supports free enterprise, it does not follow that it automatically supports capitalism.

The display of such a disability to discern what the Church teaches, and what economic terms mean, eliminates any possibility of a reasoned conclusion until such a crippling error is overcome.

1. Catholic social teaching develops and free enterprise has never been unregulated – there is “unregulated capitalism” nowhere, and never has been – whatever that means! That is a figment of your imagination.
   Pope Leo XIII referred to the minds and actions of those people described as “the inhumanity of employers and the unbridled greed of competitors” (Rerum Novarum, # 6) – the world is full of such people in every endeavour, as well as full of good people.
2. Demeaning what the great acknowledged St John Paul II stressed as a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy” – “an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector”, is proof enough of your selfism and inability to learn from the greats. To imply here that the Pope is an idiot is idiotic.
3. Arthur C Brooks of the American Enterprise Institute in The Road To Freedom, Basic Books , 2012, points to (p 72) what Catholic “philosopher Michael Novak calls ‘democratic capitalism’”:
   “During the last two hundred years, there has been an unprecedented emergence of free societies and markets, accumulation of capital and expansion of trade. The sudden emergence of free enterprise unleashed human creativity and ingenuity and brought about a previously inconceivable surge in living standards. Free enterprise is the reason that in two centuries, the world has progressed from an almost universally impoverished one to a world that is not.”

 

[Brendan_64]

Abu,

it seems that we will never agree on this issue, so rather than have this thread turn into a personal discussion between the two of us (which could prove rather boring for other posters) I will respectfully bow out of this discussion. I respect your views and wish you well.

God bless,

Brendan

 

[Abu]

I wish you well too, Brendan.

Interested readers may like to know of these reviews:
How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization
by Thomas E. Woods Jr. - published by Regnery Publishing, 2005
A Book Review by Father John McCloskey
Extract:
“Of course, realizing that modern economics owes much of its basic understanding to Catholic thought can encourage society to pay greater attention to the papal teachings on social justice, ranging over the course of a century from Leo XIII’s *Rerum Novarum *to John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus.

“This perspective is particularly important given our increasingly rapid transition to a global economy. Woods proceeds to examine the work of the late Scholastics (writing in the 15th and 16th centuries) on inflation, the foreign exchange market, the value of money, just price interest rates, etc. Their thinking on economics was insightful and strikingly modern, especially since they were writing long before the 18th century appearance of the Scottish Enlightenment and Adam Smith.”
First appeared in National Catholic Register, September 11, 2005 issue.
catholicity.com/mccloskey/westernciv.html

Dr Woods The Church And The Market, Lexington Books, 2005, is described as “A welcome antidote to the various combinations of economic incompetence and self-righteous posturing - ‘liberation theology,’ New Deal welfarism, social democratic interventionism, distributism - that too often masquerade as the only ‘authentic’ interpretations of Catholic social teaching.” (Edward Feser, Visiting Assistant Professor of Philosophy, Loyola Marymount University).

Fr Percy has this to contribute:
“In The Spirit of Enterprise, George Gilder…critiques Adam Smith’s ‘concept of the economy as a great invisibly guided “machine” in which capitalists are tools of the “market”.

“In rejecting the notion that the entrepreneur is simply an instrument of the market, Gilder expounds for us what Kirzner means by alertness. The entrepreneur is protagonist, a man who creates and sustains markets by developing business opportunities. All of this is far removed from the ‘unintentional’ and ‘unknowing’ entrepreneur Smith portrays. Rather the entrepreneur’s activity is intelligent and focused.”
Entrepreneurship in the Catholic Tradition, Fr Anthony G Percy, p 21].

 

[andrewstx]

Actually “free enterprise” is a code word for unlimited unregulated capitalism, which has been condemned by the church. Nice try though.

“Free Enterprise” is a stroke of genius for it’s user. Just by the use of the word “free”. What American can possibly be opposed to “freedom”?

 

[livingwordunity]

Actually “free enterprise” is a code word for unlimited unregulated capitalism, which has been condemned by the church. Nice try though.

“Free Enterprise” is a stroke of genius for it’s user. Just by the use of the word “free”. What American can possibly be opposed to “freedom”?

Didn’t the word “liberalism” used to basically mean unlimited capitalism?

 

[Abu]

andrewstx #42
Actually “free enterprise” is a code word for unlimited unregulated capitalism, which has been condemned by the church.

Such nonsense is typical of the unlearned.

As the great acknowledged St John Paul II took the trouble to clarify: “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy” – “an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector”, is proof enough of the selfism and inability to learn from the Holy Father by condemning his teaching.

To imply here that the Pope doesn’t know what he’s talking about is typical of those who know nothing about the Church’s teaching, or couldn’t care less.

 

[andrewstx]

Such nonsense is typical of the unlearned.

As the great acknowledged St John Paul II took the trouble to clarify: “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy” – “an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector”, is proof enough of the selfism and inability to learn from the Holy Father by condemning his teaching.

To imply here that the Pope doesn’t know what he’s talking about is typical of those who know nothing about the Church’s teaching, or couldn’t care less.

Sorry Mr Abu, but I am not unlearned. In fact I have a college degree. But I had a bad stroke nine years ago which greatly affected my memory and cognitive ability. But throwing around a lot of 25 cent words does not impress me or make me feel inferior.

 

[casadepaz]

The Catholic Church has condemned communism or socialism. But as far as capitalism, the Catechism of the Catholic Church only condemns what can be called “unbridled capitalism” that can happen when “in the practice of” it (2425, CCC). But the Church does not give a blanket condemnation to capitalism the way She has said that communism or socialism are intrinsically wrong. So in short, the position of the Catholic Church on capitalism is basically it depends. But the position of the Church on communism or socialism is that it is never acceptable.

Pope John Paul II - On the Church’s Social Doctrine

Returning now to the initial question: can it perhaps be said that, after the failure of Communism, capitalism is the victorious social system, and that capitalism should be the goal of the countries now making efforts to rebuild their economy and society? Is this the model which ought to be proposed to the countries of the Third World which are searching for the path to true economic and civil progress?

The answer is obviously complex. If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”. But if by “capitalism” is meant a system in which freedom in the economic sector is not circumscribed within a strong juridical framework which places it at the service of human freedom in its totality, and which sees it as a particular aspect of that freedom, the core of which is ethical and religious, then the reply is certainly negative. - Centesimus annus

Pope Pius XI - On Communism

In the beginning Communism showed itself for what it was in all its perversity; but very soon it realized that it was thus alienating the people. It has therefore changed its tactics, and strives to entice the multitudes by trickery of various forms, hiding its real designs behind ideas that in themselves are good and attractive. Thus, aware of the universal desire for peace, the leaders of Communism pretend to be the most zealous promoters and propagandists in the movement for world amity. Yet at the same time they stir up a class-warfare which causes rivers of blood to flow, and, realizing that their system offers no internal guarantee of peace, they have recourse to unlimited armaments. Under various names which do not suggest Communism, they establish organizations and periodicals with the sole purpose of carrying their ideas into quarters otherwise inaccessible. They try perfidiously to worm their way even into professedly Catholic and religious organizations. Again, without receding an inch from their subversive principles, they invite Catholics to collaborate with them in the realm of so-called humanitarianism and charity; and at times even make proposals that are in perfect harmony with the Christian spirit and the doctrine of the Church. Elsewhere they carry their hypocrisy so far as to encourage the belief that Communism, in countries where faith and culture are more strongly entrenched, will assume another and much milder form. It will not interfere with the practice of religion. It will respect liberty of conscience…See to it, Venerable Brethren, that the Faithful do not allow themselves to be deceived! Communism is intrinsically wrong, and no one who would save Christian civilization may collaborate with it in any undertaking whatsoever. Those who permit themselves to be deceived into lending their aid towards the triumph of Communism in their own country, will be the first to fall victims of their error. And the greater the antiquity and grandeur of the Christian civilization in the regions where Communism successfully penetrates, so much more devastating will be the hatred displayed by the godless. - Divini Redemptoris, Encyclical of Pope Pius XI on Atheistic Communism

Pope John XXIII - On Socialism

Pope Pius XI further emphasized the fundamental opposition between Communism and Christianity, and made it clear that no Catholic could subscribe even to moderate Socialism. The reason is that Socialism is founded on a doctrine of human society which is bounded by time and takes no account of any objective other than that of material well-being. Since, therefore, it proposes a form of social organization which aims solely at production, it places too severe a restraint on human liberty, at the same time flouting the true notion of social authority. - Mater et Magistra

 

[casadepaz]

All forms of "ism’s can be dangerous.

Throughout history we have seen that Communism aims at breaking down the individuals free will and breaking free enterprise. Communism rewards only the people at the top while it stifles and punishes all others.
Creativity diminishes, work ethic is crushed, and all religious beliefs, except for belief and allegiance in the system itself is abolished.

Socialism has also failed. On the surface it may seem like a good idea–of everyone sharing equally. However, we soon see that socialism restricts human dignity, accomplishment, and freedom to worship. Secularism is what socialism promotes. It breaks down morality and once again, it is rewards those at the top, while all others struggle to make ends meet. One of it’s main goals is to destroy belief in a divine force and put all allegiance in the system itself.

Under both systems humankinds free will, freedom, and liberty are destroyed.

Capitalism seems to work when everyone is able to express free enterprise according to each person’s abilities and tenacity to accomplish something. Capitalism gives the people more freedoms of accomplishment and freedom to worship according to their beliefs. In the past, capitalism promoted worship, because through a belief in a divine source, people are more apt to live higher moral lives, be more giving, and in turn it promotes a more sincere patriotism in the system.
However, Capitalism in the U.S. is in danger as more large banks and corporations take over, crushing small businesses across the nation. If we look back over the early years of the U.S. we see small towns that sprung up across the continent with individual small businesses and manufacturing. Where once a town 15,000 population boasted 3-6 hardware and lumber yards, we now have one store who struggles because of the corporate warehouse style hardware’s have choked out most small businesses. This example also shows that as the majority of small hardware stores closed, so did smaller independent suppliers. The same holds true for grocery stores, clothing shops, shoe stores, small pharmacies, etc.
Religious worship has also been threatened as taxes support social causes that are against God’s teachings. People have lost faith, because they have lost hope, or they search for easier acceptable ways to live–giving into illicit acts over fearing and following God.

Capitalism will only work if the government leaders and large corporation will promote individual business over monopolies and hold onto Judeo Christian values and promote prayer, personal worship, and individual rights to life, liberty, and freedom to excel.

 

[Abu]

Casadepaz #47
Capitalism will only work if the government leaders and large corporation will promote individual business over monopolies and hold onto Judeo Christian values and promote prayer, personal worship, and individual rights to life, liberty, and freedom to excel.

Nothing can or will “work” for the betterment of mankind if the people involved are not virtuous. The economic system which can work best is that of free enterprise developed by Catholics and approved by the Church.

As the acknowledged St John Paul II in Centesimus Annus, 42, 1991 sums up, the requirements are:
‘If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”.’

 

[casadepaz]

I’ve enjoyed reading everyone’s comments and theories of comparison’s of communism, socialism, and capitalism.
We don’t have to go very far back in history to compare the various economic systems to see which one’s work and which one’s are not sustainable.
Capitalism in it’s near pure form, is the longest sustainable and most beneficial to each individual to lives in the system, because it promotes individual liberties. There is a place and a certain amount of satisfaction and success for anyone who uses their personal skills to the best of their ability. Not everyone will become million or billionaires, but those who have the perseverance, tenacity, diligence and discipline along with the knowledge to do their job will succeed in some fashion.
Success is not defined by the amount of money one makes, but by the self-responsible actions one takes to achieve a goal. Those who live a faithful life, work diligently, provide and love family, share with those less fortunate, love and serve others, live within their individual means, strive to be honest, patriotic, and God fearing, live with high morals, are prayerful, and give honor and glory to God are indeed successful. Our country’s structure, its constitution, laws, and capitalistic system are based on these precepts.

Marxism and Communism on the other hand, is a classless system without any incentive to achieve any goal. One is working for all the people (even those who don’t want to work) without anything received or achieved of any personal value. However, both Marxism and Communism are not completely classless, because the top authorities always lives better than everyone else and the lazy or those unable to work still receive without pitching in to the system. When a person doesn’t achieve for personal satisfaction and liberty, then the character of a person is harmed and the will is broken.
Our country has some Marxist and Communist values, which are destroying the capitalistic system that sustained this country since the 1700’s. Yet, as we watch communistic governments like China, we can see that they are becoming more capitalistic as their people enjoy more personal satisfaction for their labors, and as they more into a middle class–a class system. Also, if we look at how China’s economy has grown in the last 25-30 years, we also see that their government is loosening the Communist restraints on people and allowing them to capitalize on investing their money into high rise buildings, industry, etc. Interesting isn’t it? This tells me that everything these Socialistic and Communistic countries have been condoning for years is wrong. Once they have the opportunity to capitalize, they do!

Referring to the Catholic monasteries as communistic is incorrect, because anyone who enters the monastery or cloister society does so voluntarily. These people exercise their individual liberties and make a personal choice to enter and live within these communes. They are also free to leave when they feel they no longer want to live the cloistered life. The Catholic Church doesn’t hold anyone hostage or bound to their vows. In fact, in some cases, a superior in charge of a monastery will counsel and suggest that an individual leave–either for a period of time or permanently, perhaps because of some conflict with accepting the rules and vows or the person just isn’t meant to be in that particular setting.

 

[brjoseph]

Such nonsense is typical of the unlearned.

To imply here that the Pope doesn’t know what he’s talking about is typical of those who know nothing about the Church’s teaching, or couldn’t care less.

To need to begin and end ones’ debate argument with condescending personal insult or attack is typical of those who are defensive about their own ideologies and “isms,” but cannot actually defend their ideas in any meaningful way… and that defensiveness implies a deeper inkling- even a hidden understanding-of the insufficiencies and weaknesses of those positions and arguments therein to begin with.

 

[brjoseph]

Nothing can or will “work” for the betterment of mankind if the people involved are not virtuous. The economic system which can work best is that of free enterprise developed by Catholics and approved by the Church.

’

Stop there.
Are you seriously suggesting it was the Catholic Church that created Capitalism?

(Which, it should be noted, you continuously alter, substituting the words, “free enterprise” and then manage to “win” arguments no one else is having.)