Catholic Church Destroying Itself

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thealtonroute

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I am new to this forum, and I wanted to share with posters the fact that the Church is driving away many of its faithful. In my hometown of Streator, IL the Diocese of Peoria is currently destroying three viable parishes in a very misguided attempt at consolidation. There are three traditional Catholic churches in town and the Diocese wants to demolish them all and have a megachurch of sorts built out in the country. In the meantime, the pastor of the churches in town is running my home parish to the ground. I’m sure that he and the diocese figure a completely demoralized parish won’t present much of an opposition to this joke of a consolidated church. Building evaluations were recently completed on all three churches in Streator. Many people feel that the diocese and the local pastor will exaggerate the weaknesses of our old churches so that they have an excuse to close and demolish them. It’s obvious that priests are being kept out of Streator to exaggerate the claim that there’s a shortage of clergy. There are only two priests in town for three parishes, one of which has a school. In the nearby town of Ottawa, with a slightly larger population, there are 5 priests. My personal feeling is that the parishes are being consolidated so that the diocese can squeeze more money out of Streator. Nothing but money matters on the diocesan level.

A rural parish outside of Streator already has fallen victim to this ill-planned scheme. St. Patrick’s Church in Ransom, IL originally was included in the consolidation plan despite the fact that it had few connections to Streator. At the time it was very obvious that St. Pat’s was being closed so that the parish’s 80 acres of farmland could be sold off to pay for the property on which the new church would be built. St. Pat’s parishioners fought vigorously to get out of the consolidation fiasco. Even though the parish eventually did get out of the whole fiasco, the parish was pretty much destroyed and services are still suspended.

I love the Catholic faith and always go to Mass but my respect for the institutional Catholic Church is rapidly deteriorating. The poor decisions of the hierarchy have caused so many problems in the Church. Streator’s always been a heavily Catholic town, but the actions of the diocese and the local pastor are driving people away left and right. I’ve been protesting this fiasco as much as I can. Although I’m disgusted with the Catholic Church in central Illinois, I never will leave. What disturbs me is that people will leave the Church for Protestant churches without ever fighting against the injustice that is destroying our parishes. Please pray for the parishes of Streator, IL.
 
80 acres of farmland is nothing compared to what the catholic church has had to sell in real estate in the city of chicago. You have to understand what the value of the property is in comparison I guess. It does blow the mind how much worth they had at one time until they had to sell so much of it.
 
I hope CAF prosecutes under pornography… directed to the one below this post Somerandom ]
 
Don’t even acknowledge that idiot, he will burn in hell so why bother. The posts will be deleted soon. Anyway regarding the post of the Church being ruined I feel your pain this is truly a sacrilege. Those priests and Bishops responsible should be ashamed of themselves and if you ask me are pretenders to the title, they should be tried by a tribunal and stripped of their titles. And I say this as a Traditional Catholic who is fanatically and fiercely loyal to the Church. There are just some priests and Bishops that have infiltrated our Holy Church. As a Hibernian I am under oath to protect Holy Clergymen, but men such as these need removed from the Priesthood. A good book that I really want you to get a hold of is Ugly As Sin: Why They Changed Our Churches from Sacred Places to Meeting Spaces and How We Can Change Them Back Again by Michael Rose he lists Traditional architects you can contact by phone, it is not too late, you and parishoners can fight this, do not give up, do not let the NO prenteders modernize and Protestantize Catholicism in the name of all things Holy and One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN!!!
 
Hibernian?

What is this? It’s not mentioned in the CCC. Where is the best source to research this Hibernian thing?
 
StrawberryJam said:
Hibernian?

What is this? It’s not mentioned in the CCC. Where is the best source to research this Hibernian thing?
Click to expand...
I think VerumAdInfernos is a member of the Ancient Order of Hibernians, an Irish Catholic fraternity. I’ve just heard of it now. I guess Wikipedia (despite its horrible reliability) can be a start, as it has some external links in it.

Unless VerumAdInfernos would like to explain 🙂
VerumAdInfernos said:
Don’t even acknowledge that idiot, he will burn in hell so why bother. The posts will be deleted soon. Anyway regarding the post of the Church being ruined I feel your pain this is truly a sacrilege. Those priests and Bishops responsible should be ashamed of themselves and if you ask me are pretenders to the title, they should be tried by a tribunal and stripped of their titles. And I say this as a Traditional Catholic who is fanatically and fiercely loyal to the Church. There are just some priests and Bishops that have infiltrated our Holy Church. As a Hibernian I am under oath to protect Holy Clergymen, but men such as these need removed from the Priesthood. A good book that I really want you to get a hold of is Ugly As Sin: Why They Changed Our Churches from Sacred Places to Meeting Spaces and How We Can Change Them Back Again by Michael Rose he lists Traditional architects you can contact by phone, it is not too late, you and parishoners can fight this, do not give up, do not let the NO prenteders modernize and Protestantize Catholicism in the name of all things Holy and One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN!!!
Click to expand...
I totally agree with you :knight1:
 
You’ll see “gift of the AOH” on stained-glass windows in old Irish churches.
 
thealtonroute said:
I am new to this forum, and I wanted to share with posters the fact that the Church is driving away many of its faithful. In my hometown of Streator, IL the Diocese of Peoria is currently destroying three viable parishes in a very misguided attempt at consolidation. There are three traditional Catholic churches in town and the Diocese wants to demolish them all and have a megachurch of sorts built out in the country. … Please pray for the parishes of Streator, IL.
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If the people you are speaking of are truly “faithful” they wouldn’t be leaving the Church because of a building. The church building is an expression of your faith, not your faith an expression of a church building. It’s what goes on inside the building that is what is important, not the building itself. If people are leaving, they are using that as an excuse and it isn’t the real reason. If you talk to them you will find they are leaving the Church because they don’t know what it teaches and why it teaches it and we all should be educating them.

What many people don’t understand is that each parish is responsible for their own expenses, i.e. utilities, maintenance, salaries, etc… In my parish, the yearly expenses are approx $80,000 a year and they take in approx $65,000 a year in adult contributions. We had to take up special collections for new furnaces in the church building and rectory (and barely got that money together) and then another special collection for painting the bell tower and tuck pointing so the building didn’t leak and fall apart which would have cost even more to repair. We didn’t get enough money so that extra money had to come from somewhere, there goes the emergency fund. If it weren’t for special collections, many churches would never be able to meet their financial obligations. People seem to think that they don’t need to give because someone else will take care of the funding. That just isn’t how it works. The Catholic Church, in and of itself, is not as rich as many people think. They do not OWN the extensive art collection in the Vatican, they just spend the money to protect and preserve them with no monetary reward. Most of the money sent to the Chancery is used for various charities and for the running expenses and salaries of the Diocesan staff (and they aren’t paid that well). The Bishops and their staff do the best with what we don’t give them.

Many of the church buildings that are being evaluated are 100 years old, more or less, and probably have not been properly maintained over the years. Some of these evaluations are to determine just how costly it would be to bring the building up to standards, and in some cases, code. If the individual parish doesn’t have the congregation to fund the projects necessary, or if the congregation WON’T fund the projects, what would you suggest they do. Many of those who complain want the church buildings in their back yards but they do nothing to actually support the privilege. Many of these buildings would be too costly to renovate, it would be less expensive to build new buildings. Also, many of these parishes don’t have a large enough congregation to justify not combining them with a nearby parish. Operating expenses would be less, staff salaries would be less and the parishes would same money in the long run. THAT EXTRA MONEY DOES NOT GO TO THE CHANCERY!!! Any money sent for Diocesan Operating expenses is based on parishioner numbers and if the congregations of 2 churches combine, the number doesn’t change.

Lastly, there is a shortage of priests. As you mentioned, there may be a large parish close to you with 5 priests but have you ever considered the amount of work involved running that parish and caring for the faithful? For a Priest to do what he has been called to do, shepherding the faithful and being there when they need him, you would need at least 1 priest for ever 4-500 people. As it is there is approx 1 priest for every 3,000 or more Catholics in America. That means middle of the night phone calls, counseling, attending special occasions, Confession, Mass, Baptisms, Funerals, Marriage Prep, Weddings, Religious Education, etc, not to mention coordinating staff (if there is any), arranging for general maintenance of the property, dealing with salespeople, and general business and financial responsibilities of the Parish of 3000+ people. Many of our Priests are pastors of more than one parish because, as in our Diocese, we have about 130 parishes and only 70 active priests. One question I have for anyone who wants to complain about churches closing because of a shortage of priests is “are any of your sons priests?” “When was the last time you encouraged a young man in your parish to look seriously at the priesthood?” Our sons learn how to listen and answer the call to the priesthood at home and if it is not being taught and encouraged, we will not have more priests anytime soon. Most parents teach their children that the only way to measure success is by how much “stuff” you have and how much money you can spend, not by who you are and how God sees you.

It is easy to place blame for everything we see an mistakes on the Bishops, etc… but, before placing blame, one had better be sure they have lived up to their responsibilities to their parishes, dioceses, and the Church according to their own priesthood through baptism and confirmation. This attitude of “it’s someone else’s fault” has got to stop.

I pray for the Church as a whole. I also pray for our Bishops and Priests who, whether they want to or not, have to make some very difficult decisions, knowing that there will be many not happy with those decisions. these decisions are not easy in the best of circumstances and we should be supporting and encouraging them , not making things more difficult for them.
 
Closing churches is NEVER good.

Money problems can be solved with faith and dedication. The shortage of priests in my opinion has more to do with the lack of effective teaching on faith, works and vocation since the 1960s than anything else.

The simple fact is that for every church closed, it is one less opportunity for local people to come in and join the Church. Of existing congregations, a good proportion, when churches are amalgamated, do not move on to the new Church and stop participating in worship altogether. Shutting churches is a fatal sign of lack of faith and the contraction/disappearance of the Church.
 
Apparently no body lives in the Archdiocese of Ny which has been doing this for quite awhile.We didn’t like it but we did’nt give up on the church and think it is being destroyed. Most churches are closed simpy because of the economics.It takes a hell of a lot of money to maintain a parish.We had a church close in the diocese that the people of the area wanted to keep as a Historical building .The church tried to close it -the opposition filed an injunction.The church was in limbo for several years. that church had to keep paying the bills on it and theopposition did nothing to maintain it. Itstarted falling literally apart.So the diocese put out a lot of money for nothing- the opposition didn’t put their money where their mouths were. A couple of churches managed to keep their doors open by proving to the diocese the parish could pull it’s own weight by paying it’s bills and approaching their bishop respectfully. Going around shouting"the sky is falling" doesn’t help your cause.Practical measures must be taken if you want to keep a parish from closing. If your parish can’t maintain itself and the diocese pays to keep it open other parishes and charities wil be hurt- and that isn’t fair either.
 
I’m fairly certian that Archbishop George could sell the real eastate he has and so many others have enjoyed in Chicago.

Not saying he should do that, but he COULD do that.
 
Since a few of the posts recognized the need for closing parishes as being an issue of finances, I have to wonder why the CCHD doesn’t use some of the millions it collects every year to help struggling parishes?
 
My church has many young parishioners and the only Catholic school left in town. The church is air-conditioned and has disabled access. A $1.8 million addition to the school was completed in 2003. The attitude of the pastor toward my parish and towards the other two often has been appalling. Longtime parishioners who have had run-ins with the pastor have said they are “spiritually devastated.” I’ve heard that the pastor’s negative attitude toward my church may stem from a disagreement his parents had with a priest at the parish 50 years ago. The Messiah will not be performed at our church this year because the choir directors cannot work with the pastor. My elderly relatives regard the pastor as the most destructive priest they’ve seen in their entire lives. It seems every day I hear of more Catholics who plan on leaving the Church because of the actions of the pastor in my town. By next June no priest will live in our rectory and our church no longer will have a secretary. And worst of all is that the diocese is doing absolutely nothing to stop it. It’s hard to believe there are many people left who trust the leadership of the Catholic Church. One of my close relatives is Protestant and regards it as “insane” that one priest could come in and wield such enormous authority in order to destroy an entire parish. I fail to see the benefit of the “vision” of the pastor and the diocese, unless their plan is on driving away as many Catholics as possible.
 
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