Catholic church founded by

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boog123

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hello all
just wondering how 1 would be sure that JESUS found the catholic church, if i’m correct most would say it’s due to the tradition’s of mass, eucharist and others like that which were in the bible and traced back to JESUS.
if thats the case then woulden’t it be possible for someone to use those same traditions and start there own church?
i’m not trying to attack catholics, it’s just a question.
maybe if you could provide me with some bible quotes or the words catholic church in the bible.
i’m still reading the bible and have not finished, or maybe i’m wrong on the tradition thing.

thanks in advance.
 
No, one could not just start celebrating the Eucharist or mimicking the Mass and say that they can trace their origins back to Jesus. If I started dressing like you, talking like you, and claimed to be your brother from the same parents does that mean that we are, in fact, related and both come from your parents? Just because someone claims something doesn’t make it true.

The evidence for our being The One Church established by Jesus lies in what we call Apostolic Succession. Our Bishops were all ordained by Bishops who were ordained by Bishops etc. down the line until we get to the Bishops who were ordained by the Apostles who were ordained by Christ himself. Paul tells Timothy: “What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” ( 2 Tim. 2:2) This shows three generations of Apostolic Succession: Paul, who taught and ordained Timothy, who is to teach and ordain ‘faithful men’ (note that it’s not just any man or everyone, Timothy is supposed to choose specific men to teach).

Another problem with just starting up your own church and saying it was Established by Christ as evidenced by how you mimick the Mass is that Christ’s church was founded on the rock of St. Peter: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church” (Mathew 16:18). Peter means ‘Rock’ and our Popes are ordained to the same see of Peter. The Church of Christ is founded upon and led by Peter, or Peter’s successors.

The Catholic Church is the only True Church, established by Christ Himself.
 
Apostolic Succession is the best answer to this question but there is also the issue of historicity. If you look at a time line of any of the non-Catholic Christian churches you will see that they will all claim to be started by someone other than Jesus: Lutherans by Martin Luther, Calvinists and (some)Baptists by Calvin, Anglican and Episcopalians by King Henry VIII.

There is no man who claims to have “started” the Catholic Church. We can say that the Catholic Church was started by Jesus Christ with Peter as the first earthly leader.

Brenda V.

P.S. Shouldn’t this be in Apologetics? Those who frequent that forum will be better able to answer this question better than Rawb or me (and Rawb, you gave a really great answer!)
 
what about the preists and bishops and cardinals and possibly popes that were not truly good sexually abused children or did things like that, if i were asked that question how would i answer it?
 
boog123 said:
hello all
just wondering how 1 would be sure that JESUS found the catholic church, if i’m correct most would say it’s due to the tradition’s of mass, eucharist and others like that which were in the bible and traced back to JESUS.
if thats the case then woulden’t it be possible for someone to use those same traditions and start there own church?
i’m not trying to attack catholics, it’s just a question.
maybe if you could provide me with some bible quotes or the words catholic church in the bible.
i’m still reading the bible and have not finished, or maybe i’m wrong on the tradition thing.

thanks in advance.
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Jesus Christ founded the Universal Church (Catholic Church) on the faith of the Apostles, lead by St. Peter (also called Simon bar Jonah)
 
boog123 said:
what about the preists and bishops and cardinals and possibly popes that were not truly good sexually abused children or did things like that, if i were asked that question how would i answer it?
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The Holy Spirit prevents the Pope from declaring doctrine regarding faith and morals that contains any error. As a extension of that gift, He also prevents the bishops from teaching error with regards to faith and morals (infallibility of the ordinary magisterium). The Holy Spirit does not stop popes, cardinals, bishops, priests, or deacons from sinning. The fact that the Church is comprised of saints and sinners is a testiment to the authenticity of the Church, Christ said that the “kingdom of heaven” would be filled with wheat AND tares, sheep and goats, fish and eels. The Churches duty is to proclaim the Gospel, not judge people’s salvation. But, when someone is egregiously violating the Gospel, it is duty -bound by Christ’s commandment to put them out, so they might learn humility, repent, and return to Christ’s Church.
 
boog123 said:
what about the preists and bishops and cardinals and possibly popes that were not truly good sexually abused children or did things like that, if i were asked that question how would i answer it?
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I’d ask the one asking the question why that had anything to do with the Catholic Church being the true church.
 
boog123 said:
if thats the case then woulden’t it be possible for someone to use those same traditions and start there own church?"

I believe that is what many individuals and organizations have done in the United States. They refer to themselves has Christens and use the Bible as their sole source.

“maybe if you could provide me with some bible quotes or the words catholic church in the bible.”

Catholic church was the first produce that Bible. Monks would hand write scripture. Later, a Germany inventor developed the printing press and it was the beginning of mast production. A few books were taken out of the original Bible set. There was only one church of the day and that was Catholic. King James put his name on it because he was promoting his church, separate from the Church.
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The Catholic Church Latin Rite was founded when Pope Leo IX finalized their schism in 1054 begun in 866 from the apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. The Pope left behind the other 4 Patriarch’s to continue the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. So it depends how you look at it. They do have the same beginning as the apostolic church but then went their own way with new doctrines as did further divisions from them. Of course from one schism came others such as Luther’s, Henry’s and so on.

That does NOT mean the the Catholic Church (Rome) cannot trace itself back to the apostles. They certainly can in just the same way the Anglicans can.

Rev North
 
RevDrNorth said:
That does NOT mean the the Catholic Church (Rome) cannot trace itself back to the apostles. They certainly can in just the same way the Anglicans can.

Rev North
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Code:
:confused: The Anglicans can trace their Church to the apostles??? I thought it was Henry the V111…:confused:
 
Shoshana said:
Code:
:confused: The Anglicans can trace their Church to the apostles??? I thought it was Henry the V111…:confused:
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Nope…just as after the Roman Catholic church went into schism from the apostolic church they can still trace their Bishops back to the apostles… so can Anglicans. They can trace the laying on of hands to the Apostles.

This issue of the validity of Anglican orders really has nothing to do with whether they can trace the laying on of hands back to the apostles (I have never seen anyone really debate that). It has to do with whether they had the correct intent and used the correct magic words. Pope Leo XI (??) had one point of view. This is highly debatable from an Anglican point of view and people like Staley shoot holes in the arguement of Leo XI. Also a well respected contemporary Catholic theologian declared Anglican orders valid (prior to Leo’s statement) I think other political and practical considerations played a role (those have been discussed here at length).

Rev North
 
RevDrNorth - you are saying that Anglicans can trace their beginnings to the roots of catholicism right?
 
RevDrNorth said:
The Pope left behind the other 4 Patriarch’s to continue the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
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Oh right…On these rocks (Peter, and 4 others) I found my church…and when they disagree about something, nobody will be in charge. Terrific idea.

Rev - it looks to me like you have a desperate desire to become Catholic, but still be able to say you don’t report to the pope. 😃
 
boog123 said:
what about the preists and bishops and cardinals and possibly popes that were not truly good sexually abused children or did things like that, if i were asked that question how would i answer it?
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Would you agree that the present President of the USA has lost credibility and yet remains the President?

Same goes for anyone in office. A Bishopric is an office, as well as a priesthood.

BTW, those Bishops and priests that were found to be abusers have been removed.

Subrosa
 
RevNorth, is this your first user name? Methinks your posts ring a bell of some sort. no, Henry the 8th is your aspostle and apostle he remains.
 
RevDrNorth said:
The Catholic Church Latin Rite was founded when Pope Leo IX finalized their schism in 1054 begun in 866 from the apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ. The Pope left behind the other 4 Patriarch’s to continue the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. So it depends how you look at it. They do have the same beginning as the apostolic church but then went their own way with new doctrines as did further divisions from them. Of course from one schism came others such as Luther’s, Henry’s and so on.

That does NOT mean the the Catholic Church (Rome) cannot trace itself back to the apostles. They certainly can in just the same way the Anglicans can.

Rev North
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You got it backwards. It is the Eastern Orthodox which was ex-communicated and is in defect. Study history again and besides the Anglicans were established by Henry the VIII not Jesus.

Because the Catholic Church will never condone Henry’s sinful adultery that’s why they established their own “church”.
 
Shoshana said:
RevNorth, is this your first user name? Methinks your posts ring a bell of some sort. no, Henry the 8th is your aspostle and apostle he remains.
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The only username I have ever had here.

Rev North
 
nilofc said:
You got it backwards. It is the Eastern Orthodox which was ex-communicated and is in defect. Study history again and besides the Anglicans were established by Henry the VIII not Jesus.

Because the Catholic Church will never condone Henry’s sinful adultery that’s why they established their own “church”.
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That is your perspective. The Orthodox disagree and would say the same to you…study history and you will come to the Orthodox conclusion (it is inescapable).

As for Henry…please. Much Papal sin. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that Anglicans can trace themelseves back to the apostles.
 
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