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Daisy
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I have a Protestant friend who accused the Catholic Church of this. I’ve never heard that complaint from Protestants before, and I was baffled on how to refute this accusation. Any thoughts?
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twf
Guest
Nonsense. Adoration of the Holy Spirit, as the third person of the Trinity, is intrinsic to Catholic worship…
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit…
Of course, if this person means in terms of fostering a relationship with the Holy Spirit and a focus on His gifts, there’s always the Catholic Charismatic Movement…
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit…
Of course, if this person means in terms of fostering a relationship with the Holy Spirit and a focus on His gifts, there’s always the Catholic Charismatic Movement…
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Daisy
Guest
Yes, we believe in the trinity. I wasn’t exactly sure what he meant. I’ll have to go deeper on this with him. But I was trying to think of specific demonstrations of how we acknowledge and honor the Holy Spirit. I suppose I could go into the concept of our honor for Mary
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Fauken
Guest
Confirmation, the Mass for Pentecost, and the Veni Creator are three more direct examples. Plus the fact that the Holy Spirit is invoked during the most solemn part, the Eucharistic prayer, at every Mass.
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Vico
Guest
From the Mass:
- “May all of us who share in the body and blood of Christ be brought together in unity by the Holy Spirit” (Eucharistic Prayer II); “become one body, one spirit in Christ” (Eucharistic Prayer III); “and by your Holy Spirit, gather all who share this one bread and one cup into the one body of Christ” (Eucharistic Prayer IV).
- Action of the Holy Spirit: “May he make us an everlasting gift to you” (Eucharistic Prayer III), and thus we become in Christ “a living sacrifice of praise” (Eucharistic Prayer IV).
- The Nicene-Const. Creed “We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life…”
- Pentecost: “Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of the faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love.”
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Daisy
Guest
Thank you for being specific.
This is very good. And it’s funny, the part that saddens me about Protestant faiths is that they are without the body. And how can you have the Holy Spirit if you do not acknowledge the body? I hope this makes sense.
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Theo2
Guest
When I was young a priest gave a sermon, homily, the forgotten person of the Blessed Trinity. That is the Holy Spirit. Of course, the Holy Spirit is always there but who do most Catholics focus on in prayer. Jesus in number one and the Father is number two according to polls I have seen. Vatican II, I believe, revived our awareness of the Holy Spirit. It is good to ask the Holy Spirit to come. The Holy Spirit can add a new dimension to your prayer life. You can tell your friend that the Holy Spirit is alive and well in the Catholic Church but we yearn to known Him better as we do Jesus and God the Father.
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Elf01
Guest
If your friend thinks Catholics worship Mary I would not go there.
I would not go there anyway unless you can make it very clear that Mary is not God.
Your friend , @Daisy , tells you that there is little to no focus on the Holy Spirit in the Church .
There is some truth in what he says .
This article below better sums up my thinking .
It is called " THE GREAT DISCOVERY: THE INDWELLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT" .
In their every day living and in their various forms of spirituality I know many Catholics who have not made or have forgotten THE GREAT DISCOVERY .
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sudy
Guest
Many of us invoke the Holy Spirit at the beginning of the rosary with:
Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and enkindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created and you shall renew the face of the earth.
Let us pray. O God, who by the light of the Holy Spirit, did instruct the hearts of the faithful, grant us in the same Spirit to be truly wise and ever to rejoice in His consolation. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
It’s a little peculiar to suggest that we don’t focus on the Holy Spirit when we all acknowledge that it’s the Holy Spirit who is guiding the Church. And the Holy Spirit is prayed to at every Sign of the Cross… which we, as Catholics, do an awful lot, every Creed, every Glory Be, every Angelus.
Edit: just realised that most of this has been mentioned by others already.
I think your friend is focused on things like speaking in tongues. The Charismatic Movement is evident in all churches, including the Catholic Church.
Edit 2: There’s something troubling me about this topic. To pray to God includes the Holy Spirit. Although they are distinct as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they are completely one in unity… there is but One God. To pray to the Father would be no slight to the Holy Spirit. In fact, it’s the Holy Spirit living within us that gives us the desire to pray.
Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and enkindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created and you shall renew the face of the earth.
Let us pray. O God, who by the light of the Holy Spirit, did instruct the hearts of the faithful, grant us in the same Spirit to be truly wise and ever to rejoice in His consolation. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
It’s a little peculiar to suggest that we don’t focus on the Holy Spirit when we all acknowledge that it’s the Holy Spirit who is guiding the Church. And the Holy Spirit is prayed to at every Sign of the Cross… which we, as Catholics, do an awful lot, every Creed, every Glory Be, every Angelus.
Edit: just realised that most of this has been mentioned by others already.
I think your friend is focused on things like speaking in tongues. The Charismatic Movement is evident in all churches, including the Catholic Church.
Edit 2: There’s something troubling me about this topic. To pray to God includes the Holy Spirit. Although they are distinct as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, they are completely one in unity… there is but One God. To pray to the Father would be no slight to the Holy Spirit. In fact, it’s the Holy Spirit living within us that gives us the desire to pray.
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Peeps
Guest
I’m a convert from Evangelical Protestantism, and my husband is a convert from Pentecostal Protestantism.
I’m guessing that your Protestant friend is referring to the type of worship that Pentecostals practice at every worship service–raising of hands, eyes closed, spiritual singing (free, no written melody, perhaps instruments but no real accompaniment, no words other than the "utterings and groanings), being “slain in the Spirit,” “dancing in the Lord,” miraculous healings and deliverance from demonic influence or even demonic possession (often people seeking this deliverance suffer from addictions and rehab is not working for them), and of course, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues by those with the gift of prophecy.
The Pentecostals refer to this as the Fullness of the Holy Spirit, or “Full Gospel.” All the Spiritual gifts referred to in the New Testament are manifested in their worship and in their daily lives. (I Corinthians 12: 27-31, Romans 12: 4-8, Ephesians 4: 11-12, and I Peter 4: 10-11).
The Pentecostals also believe in the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit,” which they consider a second filling. They will pray for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the accompanying evidence of speaking in tongues. Many times, at the conclusion of a Pentecostal worship service, a number of people will come forward to the altar to have hands laid on them so that they will be Baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues.
Protestants who are involved with Pentecostalism would ask even Protestants why their churches have little or no focus on the Holy Spirit. I was raised Baptist, and I remember back in the 1970s my Pentecostal friends would tell me that my church “is so dead.” They were referring to the lack of the manifestation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in the worship services. Yes, our Baptist church had lively hymns and fire-and-brimstone preaching and a invitation to come forward to the altar–all stuff that Catholics and Mainline Protestants still find 'wild" and “irreverent,” but to the Pentecostals, that lack of “spirit-filled worship” is evidence that our church is “dead.”
My father-in-law, who still practices Pentecostalism but attends Catholic Bible study with me, often refers to “Full Gospel” worship. He is very interested in the Charismatic Catholic worship, and I keep asking my husband to bring my FIL to these meetings so he can see and experience it for himself. I know that he would feel much more “at home” in this setting than in even the most “contemporary” OF Catholic Mass, which he considers “ancient” and “ritualistic”, even though he agrees that the Holy Spirit is present in the Catholic Mass.
I would suggest that you do a little investigating of your local Charismatic Catholic groups (to make sure they are in communication with your bishop and not a split-away group), and then point your friend to these groups.
I’m guessing that your Protestant friend is referring to the type of worship that Pentecostals practice at every worship service–raising of hands, eyes closed, spiritual singing (free, no written melody, perhaps instruments but no real accompaniment, no words other than the "utterings and groanings), being “slain in the Spirit,” “dancing in the Lord,” miraculous healings and deliverance from demonic influence or even demonic possession (often people seeking this deliverance suffer from addictions and rehab is not working for them), and of course, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues by those with the gift of prophecy.
The Pentecostals refer to this as the Fullness of the Holy Spirit, or “Full Gospel.” All the Spiritual gifts referred to in the New Testament are manifested in their worship and in their daily lives. (I Corinthians 12: 27-31, Romans 12: 4-8, Ephesians 4: 11-12, and I Peter 4: 10-11).
The Pentecostals also believe in the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit,” which they consider a second filling. They will pray for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the accompanying evidence of speaking in tongues. Many times, at the conclusion of a Pentecostal worship service, a number of people will come forward to the altar to have hands laid on them so that they will be Baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues.
Protestants who are involved with Pentecostalism would ask even Protestants why their churches have little or no focus on the Holy Spirit. I was raised Baptist, and I remember back in the 1970s my Pentecostal friends would tell me that my church “is so dead.” They were referring to the lack of the manifestation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in the worship services. Yes, our Baptist church had lively hymns and fire-and-brimstone preaching and a invitation to come forward to the altar–all stuff that Catholics and Mainline Protestants still find 'wild" and “irreverent,” but to the Pentecostals, that lack of “spirit-filled worship” is evidence that our church is “dead.”
My father-in-law, who still practices Pentecostalism but attends Catholic Bible study with me, often refers to “Full Gospel” worship. He is very interested in the Charismatic Catholic worship, and I keep asking my husband to bring my FIL to these meetings so he can see and experience it for himself. I know that he would feel much more “at home” in this setting than in even the most “contemporary” OF Catholic Mass, which he considers “ancient” and “ritualistic”, even though he agrees that the Holy Spirit is present in the Catholic Mass.
I would suggest that you do a little investigating of your local Charismatic Catholic groups (to make sure they are in communication with your bishop and not a split-away group), and then point your friend to these groups.
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Vico
Guest
Yes, and it is major difference from Catholic. From what I have studied, the reformers did not agree in transubstantiation or in propitiatory sacrifice. Calvin taught that the believers are being nourished by the body and blood of Christ on the spiritual plane and the Holy Spirit is the bond of the believer’s union with Christ. Luther taught closer to Catholic, and Zwingli farther from the Catholic.Thank you for being specific.
Vico:
This is very good. And it’s funny, the part that saddens me about Protestant faiths is that they are without the body. And how can you have the Holy Spirit if you do not acknowledge the body? I hope this makes sense.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
This all explains it well. The person may very well be Pentecostal.
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MT1926
Guest
Seriously, I sign myself (as do most Catholics) In the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit every time I pray.
I’d be curious how much focus he gives the Holy Spirit every day.
God Bless
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Genesis315
Guest
Sorry, don’t mean to pick on you, but I have never heard this before. Can you tell me how or where the Council did this?
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Theo2
Guest
No problem. I can’t point to any documents as I have not studied them that closely. I inferred it because the Charismatic Renewal spring up shortly after V II.
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JanetF
Guest
Start with the moment we walk into church and make the sign of the cross, keep going all through the mass. The Holy Spirit is EVERYWHERE.
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1ke
Guest
Why is it up to you to refute ridiculous unfounded assertions? I think it’s up to your friend to prove his assertion.
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Hodos
Guest
I would say that this is a misconception. I think the Catholic Church has a healthy focus of the work of the Holy Spirit. I would guess this person identifies with one of the more charismatic denominations which place an emphasis on the manifestation of specific gifts of the spirit. This comes from a misreading of Acts and 1 Corinthians in my opinion.
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somecanadian
Guest
Do they think the only expression of the Holy Spirit is through babbling in tongues, barking like a dog, flailing on the floor or other such Pentecostal expressions of the Spirit?
Obviously your friend has never sat through Mass, read a Missal, read the Catechism or otherwise been involved in anything to do with Catholicism because the Holy Spirit is everywhere. Throughout the Mass we celebrate the Holy Spirit, it’s just we don’t make extraordinary claims like to be saved you have to be filled with the spirit and speak in tongues (like some Pentecostals claim). I would challenge your friend to find ANY Protestant church that calls on the Holy Spirit EVERY TIME they pray, because we do “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
Honestly, your friend is just ignorant to Catholicism.
Obviously your friend has never sat through Mass, read a Missal, read the Catechism or otherwise been involved in anything to do with Catholicism because the Holy Spirit is everywhere. Throughout the Mass we celebrate the Holy Spirit, it’s just we don’t make extraordinary claims like to be saved you have to be filled with the spirit and speak in tongues (like some Pentecostals claim). I would challenge your friend to find ANY Protestant church that calls on the Holy Spirit EVERY TIME they pray, because we do “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
Honestly, your friend is just ignorant to Catholicism.
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