Catholic Church Not To Issue Liturgical Wine During Swine Flu Season

[VivienneJ]

1010Wins.Com is reporting that a Long Island Women; age 55 has died of the Swine Flu Influenza.

For complete details of this breaking story visit: 1010wins.com/55-Year-Old-Long-Island-Woman-Dies-from-Swine-Flu/5352072

PLEASE, please, read or tell the whole story. The woman concerned had serious underlying health issues (read compromised immune system) AND that is why I, and others, have kept saying those who have any flu-like symptoms should stay home and not risk infecting people around them for whom flu (of any sort) may well be fatal.

 

[JFK]

Yes, it certainly IS the point. What was questioned here was the accuracy of your initial post, PRECISELY BECAUSE of its questionable wording, which caused some of us to doubt its veracity. Not only were the words “sacramental wine” used, it also referred to the Precious Blood being “issued” and later “served,” neither of which is accurate Catholic liturgical terminology.

The OP also stated that this directive came from “The head of the Catholic Church for the New York Metropolitan area,” which would be Archbishop Timothy Dolan, but then in later posts we find out that this directive was NOT from the Archbishop and Metropolitan, but from the Bishop of Brooklyn, which would be Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio. Later posts indicate that this directive applies only to parishes in that diocese, which is hardly the sweeping directive that was initially claimed. Again, the credibility of the original post is at issue.

When it was pointed out that this decree would only impact Brooklyn and Queens, rather than the Metropolitan area, as was originally implied, the glib reply was “Just to be sure – if the Bishop of Brooklyn makes an announcement the other boroughs in NYC will not be far behind.” It is nice to know that the OP prognosticates what the Archbishop of New York will do next. I am sure that Archbishop Dolan, as the Metropolitan of the Province of New York (the entire State of New York, with all of its suffragan dioceses), will be interested to hear that he will naturally follow the lead of the Bishop of Brooklyn.

The poor terminology and fuzzy wording made the OP quite doubtable, and that IS the point, and is why some posters questioned it.

No. Your playing with semantics here. Nice try – but that’s all you’re doing. No names were ever given. And it was latter clarified (where clarification was needed) the boroughs which this policy applies to. Since this is new information. More information was given today as it became available at Mass. It’s still not to be found on any website.

Another poster also pointed out that they are implementing these rules in their Parish as well.

Your a little late in the game to try to make this point. Sorry but your post is already out-of-date. I will not accept it. Many of the readers here can clearly see what was meant and where necessary, clarified. Suggest you read the post top to bottom.

I’ll finalize it again if by now you’re unsure.

Check with your local Priest especially if you live in NYC or any other borough to find out what they’re doing.

My last post showed a death already occurred. This post was not about questionable wording and not meant to deceive anyone. And the proof came by actually being present when the information was put out.

I’m now hearing that 80% of Catholics do not attend Mass.

If you don’t believe it and want try to play semantics - not my problem.

 

[JFK]

PLEASE, please, read or tell the whole story. The woman concerned had serious underlying health issues (read compromised immune system) AND that is why I, and others, have kept saying those who have any flu-like symptoms should stay home and not risk infecting people around them for whom flu (of any sort) may well be fatal.

Sorry. The point was that the Swine Flu has started. Yes, be careful. But the world we live in actually makes it impossible to stay away from everything or every situation.

Train. Bus. Subway. Work. Church. All these places can be a place to catch something.

Even Money is filthy.

Keeping your hands clean and away from your mouth and face can go along way in keeping you fit and healthy. Because you can’t avoid it but you can strengthen the immune system.

I still don’t believe a sniffle should keep you out of church (that’s just an excuse) with the worry that someone might get sicker - who shouldn’t be there in the first place. There is no rule that says you have to shake hands. I’ve handed out plenty of Kleenex during mass.

The more selfish act is receivng Holy Communion when your not in the state of grace. Happens all the time and has been a problem for a long time.

But worrying about every composit germ is not healthy in itself. Sensible cautions is the operative word.

But don’t get me wrong – there are times you should stay home and take care of A # 1 – yourself.

 

[kage_ar]

Funny, I live in a po-dunk little town in a po-dunk little diocese and yet our Bishop has people to publish his instructions and an up-to-date website. You’d think fancy schmancy New York would have a someone who can use the internet

 

[Phemie]

Funny, I live in a po-dunk little town in a po-dunk little diocese and yet our Bishop has people to publish his instructions and an up-to-date website. You’d think fancy schmancy New York would have a someone who can use the internet

Different bishops, different priorities. I think it’s rather sad to think that a bishop has to ensure his website is up to date in order for his flock to get his messages. I wonder just how many people who don’t bother going to church care enough about anything that they would bother to check the diocesan website?

 

[Seatuck]

Funny, I live in a po-dunk little town in a po-dunk little diocese and yet our Bishop has people to publish his instructions and an up-to-date website. You’d think fancy schmancy New York would have a someone who can use the internet

You’d think so .

 

[Chatter163]

PLEASE, please, read or tell the whole story. The woman concerned had serious underlying health issues (read compromised immune system) AND that is why I, and others, have kept saying those who have any flu-like symptoms should stay home and not risk infecting people around them for whom flu (of any sort) may well be fatal.

Agreed. The OP sounds like someone who is very imprecise and not terribly knowledgeable. When challenged, he histrionically claims that others are playing semantics, and otherwise covers up his questionable misspeaks. He seems eager to have the early “scoop” more than anything else. Best to ignore such drivel.

 

[CWBetts]

To all my friends who posted a reply – Thank you.

Some of the points made in these responses were about facts and the validity of the post…

1. These facts are true and accurate. I was present when the announcement was made by a Monsignor during mass on October 1, 2009.
2. This was not a confusing directive: no consecrated wine will be issued from October 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010 because of the Swine Flu pandemic [empahsis mine].
3. I do not have an online source. Send me a PM if you require more information to corroborate the details and I’ll be happy to send you in the right direction to get more information. I.E. Proof if you need it. Or, ask your local Parishoner in NYC or call the Diocese in Brooklyn, NY.

These statements are true and accurate. As I am bound and prohibited from breaking the commandments of the Lord God – I swear it under penalty or punishment for disobedience.

If I get more information or the policy gets rescinded – I will update the postings.

You did misrepresent the facts. This only applies to the diocese of Brooklyn, and NOT the Archdiocese of New York. You made it look like something it is not, for sheere sensationalism. Writing a story makes a journalist not.

 

[JFK]

You did misrepresent the facts. This only applies to the diocese of Brooklyn, and NOT the Archdiocese of New York. You made it look like something it is not, for sheere sensationalism. Writing a story makes a journalist not.

No. I did not mispresent anything in these boards.

You said, : “This only applies to the diocese of Brooklyn,…”

1. No Liturgical Wine will be issued. Other Parishes are already begining to following suite.
2. You are wrong in your own statement. The Policy applies to two boroughs: Brooklyn and Queens.

Don’t care if anyone takes antsy to my word – “issue.”

These statements that were given during mass; as I said many times – when more information became available the thread was updated.

You might want to consider revising your own statement. When clarification was needed I made sure for the benefit of all believers that any corrections that were needed were posted.

The problem to me is real clear. Many people did not get the message. Why? Because 80% of all Catholics do not got to Mass.

And they complain because they can’t see an announcement on a website. You have to attend Mass to be involved in your Church. Had more young people been attending Mass this information would have gotten out sooner and others would not try to critisize one in some sort of bad way to try to make the truer point seem not true.

Naysayers are still looking for an update on the website. Good Luck!

The initial information was corrected in Post # 17forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5770288&postcount=17. There should not be any of this I said, he said business.

Because if there are still any questions – you are directed to – “ask a Priest.”

 

[VivienneJ]

You did misrepresent the facts. This only applies to the diocese of Brooklyn, and NOT the Archdiocese of New York. You made it look like something it is not, for sheere sensationalism. Writing a story makes a journalist not.

No. I did not mispresent anything in these boards.

Sorry, JFK, but CWBetts is absolutely correct you did misrepresent the facts. Your title for this thread is: ‘Catholic Church Not To Issue Liturgical Wine During Swine Flu Season’. That makes it sound as though the whole Catholic Church throughout the world will no longer offer the chalice to the laity. Further reading shows that it is only in some dioceses in the United States of America that this decision has been taken. Remember Catholic Answers Forum has members from many parts of the world.

These statements that were given during mass; as I said many times – when more information became available the thread was updated.

The problem to me is real clear. Many people did not get the message. Why? Because 80% of all Catholics do not got to Mass.

A very sweeping statement. That figure may be true where you are - is it true throughout the world.

And they complain because they can’t see an announcement on a website. You have to attend Mass to be involved in your Church. Had more young people been attending Mass this information would have gotten out sooner and others would not try to critisize one in some sort of bad way to try to make the truer point seem not true.

Why specifically ‘young’ people - surely this information is applicable to people of all ages?

Because if there are still any questions – you are directed to – “ask a Priest.”

Again “ask a Priest” probably also only applies in your diocese, or maybe in the whole of the USA. I have no intention of troubling any of my priests with this question because it does not apply where I am; and I’m sure the same applies to many others on these forums.

 

[Phemie]

No. I did not mispresent anything in these boards.

You said, : “This only applies to the diocese of Brooklyn,…”

1. No Liturgical Wine will be issued. Other Parishes are already begining to following suite.
2. You are wrong in your own statement. The Policy applies to two boroughs: Brooklyn and Queens.

You’re talking apples and oranges. A borough is not a diocese. The memo applied only to the diocese of Brooklyn, which is made up of the boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens. Your first post stated the memo came from “The head of the Catholic Church for the New York Metropolitan area” a much larger area comprised of more than one diocese.

 

[JFK]

To the last two posters taking a hard line:

The initial information was corrected in Post # 17 forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5770288&postcount=17
That’s a good try. Sounds like you guys are sticking a spear in my side just for being the first one to communicate this point.

I’ll bet that the Catholic Answers server is in the United States. This only applies to the United States where the Swine Flu pandemic is taken holed and where my original post upon reading shows that it was in NYC that this policy is taking effect.

So I can’t see by any logic or any stretch of reason – that upon reading my first post (the details) that you can possibly say that this was intended to be a wordlwide statement or, in any way deceivng to a worlwide audience.

When CNN writes a headline, you can’t tell from the headline the details of the story and location until you read it. Why did you do that? And why are you trying to pull this apart rather than help it along?

This is a serious matter and I state again. There was no intention to misrepresent any of the facts in this thread. Post # 17 (Read it) made that clear.

And yes 80% of all Catholics in the United States do not go to Mass.

Vivi, please respond and show me your logic in that. Because apparently there is a problem?

The facts haven’t changed.

This is borderline heresy now. Now there is evil between these threads.

Instead of trying to get to the points and facts the truth is becoming secondary.

I know it’s customary to kill the messenger.

Buy the truth and sell it not.

 

[nannyma]

It never is. It’s the Precious Blood that is distributed during Holy Communion.

Please bear with me through a few definitions that I ,myself, believe to be accurate.
Sacramental wine= wine put aside to be changed into the Blood of Christ
Liturgical wine= the same meaning; wine put aside and used for the Liturgy
Consecrated Wine= has been changed into the Blood of Christ ( which is equal to the Body of Christ in the Host) This happenning at the Consecration of every licit Mass.
God bless and continue to be with us and in us.

 

[Jolly_Joe]

The only problem with not using the cup is the cup doesn’t spread the flu. It’s that people think it will. So it’s giving in to ignorance in order to appear to do something.

 

[VivienneJ]

To the last two posters taking a hard line:

The initial information was corrected in Post # 17 forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5770288&postcount=17
That’s a good try. Sounds like you guys are sticking a spear in my side just for being the first one to communicate this point.

I’ll bet that the Catholic Answers server is in the United States. This only applies to the United States where the Swine Flu pandemic is taken holed (Swine flu has been classed as a pandemic in other countries in the world, as well as the United States.) and where my original post upon reading shows that it was in NYC that this policy is taking effect.

So I can’t see by any logic or any stretch of reason – that upon reading my first post (the details) that you can possibly say that this was intended to be a wordlwide statement or, in any way deceivng to a worlwide audience.

That may not have been the intention, but the Catholic Church is a worldwide church.

When CNN writes a headline, you can’t tell from the headline the details of the story and location until you read it. Why did you do that? And why are you trying to pull this apart rather than help it along?

Help what along? The fear-mongering around swine flu is likely to become a bigger problem that the swine flu itself.

This is a serious matter and I state again. There was no intention to misrepresent any of the facts in this thread. Post # 17 (Read it) made that clear.

And yes 80% of all Catholics in the United States do not go to Mass.

Vivi, please respond and show me your logic in that. Because apparently there is a problem? I have no idea what you’re asking. I was simply trying to point out that you are applying United States figures to the whole world.

The facts haven’t changed.

This is borderline heresy now. Now this is quite ridiculous (at best). Please check the link below to Catholic Answers Encyclopedia for what “heresy” actually is and don’t throw around terms like that indiscriminately. Now there is evil between these threads.

Instead of trying to get to the points and facts the truth is becoming secondary.

What is the truth you are trying to convey?

I know it’s customary to kill the messenger.

Buy the truth and sell it not.

oce.catholic.com/oce/browse-page-scans.php?id=72eb84ff9dc114b5692fac2e3b2b0863

 

[Corki]

Please bear with me through a few definitions that I ,myself, believe to be accurate.
Sacramental wine= wine put aside to be changed into the Blood of Christ
Liturgical wine= the same meaning; wine put aside and used for the Liturgy
Consecrated Wine= has been changed into the Blood of Christ ( which is equal to the Body of Christ in the Host) This happenning at the Consecration of every licit Mass.
God bless and continue to be with us and in us.

THANK YOU.

And if I may add a few words:

1. Wine will still be consecrated in Brooklyn and in **every ****Mass **said throughout the world. (I know you said this, I am just adding emphasis)
2. Sharing the Blood of Christ is always **optional **on the part of the priest.
3. In Brooklyn (and in my diocese, BTW) priests have been asked NOT to choose that option.

While our diocese put the request on its website, that’s not a “requirement”. This is communication from the Bishop to his priests. While parishioners might be interested in the information, it really isn’t any of their business. In the OP’s case, the priest shared the information with daily Mass attendees; that’s fine.

 

[CWBetts]

THANK YOU.

And if I may add a few words:

1. Wine will still be consecrated in Brooklyn and in **every ****Mass **said throughout the world. (I know you said this, I am just adding emphasis)
2. Sharing the Blood of Christ is always **optional **on the part of the priest.
3. In Brooklyn (and in my diocese, BTW) priests have been asked NOT to choose that option.

While our diocese put the request on its website, that’s not a “requirement”. This is communication from the Bishop to his priests. While parishioners might be interested in the information, it really isn’t any of their business. In the OP’s case, the priest shared the information with daily Mass attendees; that’s fine.

Thank you. You were post had journalistic integrity, where the OP was relying on sensationalism and misleading information, such as inferring it applied to the Archdiocese of New York, and not just the Diocese of Brooklyn). Yours simply stated facts, whereas his was intended to increase paranoia about Swine Flu. This is why self-styled internet “reporters” are to be largely ignored.

 

[Phemie]

The only problem with not using the cup is the cup doesn’t spread the flu. It’s that people think it will. So it’s giving in to ignorance in order to appear to do something.

First of all, we don’t know that drinking from the chalice doesn’t spread the 'flu. We know that there hasn’t been any case of transmission of disease documented – that doesn’t mean it has never happened. So, it’s better to be safe than sorry.

There is nothing about the chalice that makes it any less likely to transmit disease than any other beverage container. Let’s face it, the hands of the person handling the purificator are not sterile, the hands of the people taking the chalice are not sterile, neither are their lips and by that time, even if you had started with a sterile one (which you don’t), the purificator is contaminated big time. I still receive from the chalice, but I don’t delude myself into thinking that I absolutely can’t get sick from it – and believe me, if I knew that the person before me had menengitis, I’d stick to receiving only under one species.

 

[JFK]

Originally Posted by JFK
To the last two posters taking a hard line:

The initial information was corrected in Post # 17 forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…8&postcount=17
That’s a good try. Sounds like you guys are sticking a spear in my side just for being the first one to communicate this point.

I’ll bet that the Catholic Answers server is in the United States. This only applies to the United States where the Swine Flu pandemic is taken holed (Swine flu has been classed as a pandemic in other countries in the world, as well as the United States.) and where my original post upon reading shows that it was in NYC that this policy is taking effect.

So I can’t see by any logic or any stretch of reason – that upon reading my first post (the details) that you can possibly say that this was intended to be a wordlwide statement or, in any way deceivng to a worlwide audience.

That may not have been the intention, but the Catholic Church is a worldwide church.

When CNN writes a headline, you can’t tell from the headline the details of the story and location until you read it. Why did you do that? And why are you trying to pull this apart rather than help it along?

Help what along? The fear-mongering around swine flu is likely to become a bigger problem that the swine flu itself.

This is a serious matter and I state again. There was no intention to misrepresent any of the facts in this thread. Post # 17 (Read it) made that clear.

And yes 80% of all Catholics in the United States do not go to Mass.

Vivi, please respond and show me your logic in that. Because apparently there is a problem? I have no idea what you’re asking. I was simply trying to point out that you are applying United States figures to the whole world.

The facts haven’t changed.

This is borderline heresy now. Now this is quite ridiculous (at best). Please check the link below to Catholic Answers Encyclopedia for what “heresy” actually is and don’t throw around terms like that indiscriminately. Now there is evil between these threads.

Instead of trying to get to the points and facts the truth is becoming secondary.

What is the truth you are trying to convey?

I know it’s customary to kill the messenger.

Buy the truth and sell it not.

---

Vivi:

I first reported that this information was obtained at Mass.

That would make me a Catholic.

Than in your long response tell me me the Catholic Church is a World Wide Church.

I cannot take you seriously from here on in.

Sorry but that statement was a joke.

You still don’t seem to get that I clarified all the information where needed. You’ve at least twice shown that be simply skipping over the main point and playing petty points with my honest response.

Swine Flu: a Pandemic – Tell us something we don’t know.

You’re the type that will need to respond. Go ahead if you want to.

While your at it why not simple mention that I clarified the initial posting and quit pushing the nonsensical idea that my post was decieving to the world.