Catholic Church, the Early Church?

[guanophore]

St. Peter went to Antioch first. Why would not the Orthodox bishop of Antioch be his successor?

He is! In fact, the line of Bishops succeeding Peter from Antioch is older than the one in Rome.

The difference is that Peter did not pass on the responsibility to feed and care for the flock to his successor until he could not longer discharge it at the end of his life. All bishops can trace their succession back to the Apostles.

So Peter was first head of the Church in jerusalem, before going to Rome?

Jesus is Head of the Church. He left Peter to feed and care for His flock. Jesus gave Peter no limitations, but entrusted him with the whole flock.

Of course he did, and of course he does.

Absolutely.

The question is whether or not you agree that the current Orthodox bishop of Jerusalem or the current Orthodox bishop of Antioch can claim apostolic succession from St. Peter who established a church there. Is their claim to apostolic succession valid in your opinion?

The opinion of individual Catholics is not what determines the Catholic faith. This is what has been passed down to us from the Apostles.

 

[jmcrae]

The question is whether or not you agree that the current Orthodox bishop of Jerusalem or the current Orthodox bishop of Antioch can claim apostolic succession from St. Peter who established a church there. Is their claim to apostolic succession valid in your opinion?

Do they make such a claim?

 

[Tomyris]

Do they make such a claim?

Yep. Follow back up the trail of posts.

 

[JB_Brother_4446]

Yep. Follow back up the trail of posts.

This is the position I hold:

Peter and the other members of the twelve were concerned with a Christian mission far more extensive than just Jerusalem. They were never really local church leaders, once Jerusalem became big enough to require such caretakers. James was the first leader of the local church at Jerusalem (at least for the Hebrew Christians) and remained there after Peter and the other members of the twelve left the scene, whether through death or on travels. James had authority only in Jerusalem (and its “province”), but his name was known more widely because he was a blood relative of Jesus. Paul’s loyalty was to the “mother church” or community of saints in Jerusalem. His respect for James was a respect for the local leader of that church.

 

[Abu]

Apologetics Online
416. Your Church has not been known as Catholic since its foundation; and it has never been universal as the word implies.
The word “Catholic” is derived from the Greek, and it means whole, complete, and universal. The word was first applied to the Church to which we Catholics belong by St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, who died in the year 107 A.D. He used the word to describe the universality of the Church founded by Christ and subject to the Bishop of Rome. And that Church was truly universal in character from the very beginning. She was commissioned by Christ to go to the ends of the earth and to teach all He had revealed to all nations. She was, therefore, Catholic in scope, though it naturally required time to spread to all localities and peoples in actual fact. Again the Church which Christ established was Catholic in time, since it was to last, as one and the same Church, all days till the end of the world. And the Church to which we Catholics belong is the only Church which has been in the world since the time of Christ. She alone teaches all that Christ taught; she alone gives all the means of salvation and sanctification instituted by Christ; she alone draws her members from all nations without exception, and is alone adapted to the needs of all men independently of their racial and political differences. In a word, she alone is the one true Catholic Church.
radioreplies.info/site-se…=Ignatius&db=2

 

[mattp0625]

Hello all, so recently I have been discussing Christianity and it’s history with a non-Catholic colleague. I was mentioning certain things about doctrine and how it related with the Early Church. One thing led to another and I said that the Early Church IS the Catholic church. I thought this was common knowledge, but my colleague was adamant that it was not. I tried showing her the Apologetics section on CA, but she won’t accept it as a credible source because it is “obviously biased towards Catholics.” Are there any sources from non-Catholics that agree that the Catholic Church is the Early Church?

We can historically link the early Church as the Catholic Church. See Ignatius of Antioch.

That said, there are loads of Protestant based history that try to link the Catholic Church to pagans or Constantine while denying the origins of the Protestant Church linked to Luther.

You see how this goes.

 

[steve_b]

Yep. Follow back up the trail of posts.

I always ask a poster who posts something that is unbelievable … to show me their references “properly referenced” of course. It’s that last part that usually produces the sound of crickets on the other side or Dead silence all together…

 

[Ignatius]

Hello all, so recently I have been discussing Christianity and it’s history with a non-Catholic colleague. I was mentioning certain things about doctrine and how it related with the Early Church. One thing led to another and I said that the Early Church IS the Catholic church. I thought this was common knowledge, but my colleague was adamant that it was not. I tried showing her the Apologetics section on CA, but she won’t accept it as a credible source because it is “obviously biased towards Catholics.” Are there any sources from non-Catholics that agree that the Catholic Church is the Early Church?

The facts speak for themselves. We know the men who started all of the Protestant denominations.

Do you have any idea when your church was founded and by whom? You may find this enlightening:

If you are of the Catholic faith, Jesus Christ founded your Church in the year A.D. 30.
If you are Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk in the Catholic Church, in 1517.
If you are Anabaptist, your religion was founded by Nicholas Storch and Thomas Munzer in Germany in 1521.
If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you belong to the Mennonites, your church was started in 1536 by Menno Simons in Switzerland.
If you are a Calvinist, Jon Calvin started your belief system in 1555 in Switzerland.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the Year 1560.
If you are Unitarian, your group developed in Europe in the 1500s.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off Puritanism in the early 1600s in England.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.
If you are Dutch Reformed, Michaelis Jones founded your church in New York in 1628.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are an Episcopalian, your church came from England to the American colonies. It formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.
If you are a Campellite Christian Church, your religion was started by Thomas and Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone at a revival held at Bushy Creek around 1836.
If you are a Mormon (Latter-day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y. in 1830.
If you are Seventh Day Adventist, your religion was founded by Ellen Whitein 1844 in Washington, New Hampshire.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870s.
If you’re Church of Christ, your church broke of from the Campellites in 1906.
If you are Pentecostal, your religion was started in the Topeka, Kansas in 1901 by Charles F. Parkham
If you are Assemblies of God your church grew out of Pentecostalism in 1914 in Hot Springs, Az.
If you are a member of Four-square Gospel, your church was started by Aimee Semple McPherson in L.A. in 1917.
If your Church of Christ, your church broke of from the Campellites in 1906.
If you are Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith founded your church in Costa Mesa, Ca, 1965
If your organization is “evangelical nondenominational Christian” your group started in the 1970s by protestants.

 

[steve_b]

The facts speak for themselves. We know the men who started all of the Protestant denominations.

Do you have any idea when your church was founded and by whom? You may find this enlightening:

If you are of the Catholic faith, Jesus Christ founded your Church in the year A.D. 30.
If you are Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk in the Catholic Church, in 1517.
If you are Anabaptist, your religion was founded by Nicholas Storch and Thomas Munzer in Germany in 1521.
If you belong to the Church of England (Anglican), your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you belong to the Mennonites, your church was started in 1536 by Menno Simons in Switzerland.
If you are a Calvinist, Jon Calvin started your belief system in 1555 in Switzerland.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the Year 1560.
If you are Unitarian, your group developed in Europe in the 1500s.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off Puritanism in the early 1600s in England.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1607.
If you are Dutch Reformed, Michaelis Jones founded your church in New York in 1628.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are an Episcopalian, your church came from England to the American colonies. It formed a separate religion founded by Samuel Seabury in 1789.
If you are a Campellite Christian Church, your religion was started by Thomas and Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone at a revival held at Bushy Creek around 1836.
If you are a Mormon (Latter-day Saints), Joseph Smith started your church in Palmyra, N.Y. in 1830.
If you are Seventh Day Adventist, your religion was founded by Ellen Whitein 1844 in Washington, New Hampshire.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy.
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870s.
If you’re Church of Christ, your church broke of from the Campellites in 1906.
If you are Pentecostal, your religion was started in the Topeka, Kansas in 1901 by Charles F. Parkham
If you are Assemblies of God your church grew out of Pentecostalism in 1914 in Hot Springs, Az.
If you are a member of Four-square Gospel, your church was started by Aimee Semple McPherson in L.A. in 1917.
If your Church of Christ, your church broke of from the Campellites in 1906.
If you are Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith founded your church in Costa Mesa, Ca, 1965
If your organization is “evangelical nondenominational Christian” your group started in the 1970s by protestants.

IMV this list isn’t shown enough times. It puts meat on the bones. It spells out exactly what the quote from Newman “to be deep in history…” literally means.