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mo3
Guest
You are referring to Kerala area? What about Chennai area where St Thomas was martyred? They rebuilt Our Lady of Expectations church in 1532 on that spot which means Catholics owned the property at that time.
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AlNg
Guest
You might direct him to the writings of Paramahansa Yogananda who says that according to accounts in the Himis monastery in Tibet Jesus was in India somewhere between the ages of 14 to 28 years old. Swami Abhedananda has confirmed the details of the visit of Jesus among the Hindu pundits and Buddhist monks. According to this, Jesus was linked to the rishis of India from the very beginning through the Wise Men from India who had journeyed to His cradle.
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Elvis_George
Guest
That’s not completely accurate, the Church of the East could not attend the Council of Ephesus just like how the Romans couldn’t attend the Council of Nicene…In fact 10 years before that, due to pressure from the Sassanians, we made our own Catholicos and we became Independet, well before the Council of Ephesus
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Alexandria2020
Guest
I would say the vast majority of them joined with the Catholic Church (Syro-Malabar Catholics). The actual Indian Assyrian Church of the East has a population between 15,000 and 50,000. Most estimates say it’s closer to 15k-20k. The Church of the East in India is tiny. Compared to 3 to 4 million members in the Syro-Malabar Church.
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Anesti33
Guest
There are three branches of the Church of the East: Chaldean Catholic Church, Ancient Church of the East, and Assyrian Church of the East.
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Alexandria2020
Guest
Plus the Indian archdiocese of the Assyrian Church of the East is locally known in India as the “Chaldean Syrian Church”, based in Thrissur city in Kerala state.
And the Catholic counterpart in India is the Syro-Malabar Church (just like the Chaldean Catholic Church of Iraq).
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Elvis_George
Guest
We really can’t say that just because the Chaldean Syrian Church is too small to be compared with the Syro Malabar Church, plus they split from us, so not really. If you are looking in a liturgical perspective, you are correct. But if you looking in a Historical perspective, the Malankara Church is our counterpart. As you may recall, the Syro Malabar Church formed after the Pazhayakoor decided to rejoin Rome after refusing to obey the Jesuits and after deciding not to accept Mar Thoma I’s invalid consecration. The Malankara Church, also known as the puthenkoor split from Rome and went along with Mar Thoma I. So basically, the 2 churches split from eachother. (the puthenkoor and Pazhayakoor were both part of the Chaldean Catholic and both split from Rome. So which Church is the orginal? We don’t know. Since both were Catholic for 50+ years, people say the Pazhayakoor are the orginal. However, the Pazhayakoor also partook in Mar Thoma I’s illigetimate consecration and protested against Rome during the Coonan Cross Oath, so neither can claim to be orginal.) Plus, the Malankara Church and us (the Pazhayakoor) both used the same liturgy for a long time, but eventually they started abandoning the East Syriac rite while our Liturgy was deictifully latinised to the point that it was basically a Latin Mass and not an East Syriac Qurbana…plus, if you ask any Knanaya and it’s obvious they’re non catholic counterpart is the Knanaya Jacobite Church…The Syro Malankara Church’s counterpart is obviously the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church, although Many Jacobites, Thozhiyoor Sabha churchmen, and Protestant (CSI and Mar Thomites) joined the Syro Malankara Church… the Syro Malabar Church’s counterpart would be the whole of the Malankara Church, with it being alot closer to the Jacobite Church because the 2 churches mantain a friendly relationship and also because both are under a succesor of St Peter (The Pope and the Patriarch of Antioch.) The other churches are either independent (the Malankara Orthodox church and the Thozhiyur/Malabar Independent Syrian Church) or reformed (The Mar Thoma Syrian Church.)
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Elvis_George
Guest
add the Syro Malabar Church, the Church of the East’s largest remnant
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Alexandria2020
Guest
so prior to the Synod of Diamper of 1599, both the Old Party (Pazhakoor) and New Party (Puthiyakoor) were part of the Chaldean Catholic Church? or could it be possible some were Catholic and another part could have been independent? This Mar Abraham of Angamaly from the 16th century - he was a Chaldean Catholic Bishop right?
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Elvis_George
Guest
Yup ur obviously a Malayalee
And no, that wouldn’t make sense at all because we Nasranis were still 1 church at the time…the split happened after the arrival of the Carmelites, although it became visible with the arrival of Mar Gregorios Abdul Jaleel (Vadakkan Paravur Bava) which is in 1665
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Elvis_George
Guest
He was orginally part of the Independent faction but joined the Catholic Church and therefore was chaldean catholic
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Alexandria2020
Guest
Liturgically are the Syro-Malabars pretty similar to the Chaldean Catholics?
I notice the vestment are a little different. And the Chaldean Catholic Qurbana seems more similar to the OF Latin Mass. But then again there are very Latinized dioceses in the Syro church too.
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Elvis_George
Guest
Yeah,pretty similair,but in general the Chaldean Catholics are more latinized becuase they celebrate the Qurbana 100% ad populum while we generally do half and half, and as u said, a couple eparchies do celebrate the Qurbana 100% ad populum
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