Catholic Church's position on Mar Thoma Church?

[JPUSC]

I found it interesting to find out about the Mar Thoma Church, which is apostolic in nature.

They say they were founded by St. Thomas and it doesn’t seem like they broke away from the Catholic or Orthodox Churches. They claim to be independent of both Churches.

What is the Catholic Church’s position on them? Are Catholics free to attend their liturgies? Do they also possess the fullness of truth?

 

[malphono]

I found it interesting to find out about the Mar Thoma Church, which is apostolic in nature.

They say they were founded by St. Thomas and it doesn’t seem like they broke away from the Catholic or Orthodox Churches. They claim to be independent of both Churches.

What is the Catholic Church’s position on them? Are Catholics free to attend their liturgies? Do they also possess the fullness of truth?

I’m not of a maven on this topic, but the Mar Thoma Church (aka Marthomites) is, as far as I know, a Protestantized variant of the Syriac-Orthodox/Syro-Malankara tradition. It seems to have come about due to the efforts of the Anglican missionaries in Kerala, and from what I can see, it looks like a direct result of (read: retaliation for) the reunion of the Syro-Malabars. From what I understand of them, although they claim to maintain proper liturgical tradition (whether that’s true or not I can’t say since I’ve never seen it) their theology is distinctly Protestant.

Neither the Syro-Malankara Church not the Syriac Orthodox Church is in communion with it.

 

[Aramis]

If they have unbroken succession from their syriac forebearers, then they may well still have valid orders and sacraments, even while holding some heresies. Still, it’s best left to the ecumenical reconciliation teams the Bishops should have established to determine their status vis-a-vis whether they are considered valid, and if attending is permitted.

As an aside, the non-participatory attendance is not prohibited for academic purposes; if one is going for simple educational purposes, one should not participate.

 

[malphono]

If they have unbroken succession from their syriac forebearers, then they may well still have valid orders and sacraments, even while holding some heresies. Still, it’s best left to the ecumenical reconciliation teams the Bishops should have established to determine their status vis-a-vis whether they are considered valid, and if attending is permitted.

As an aside, the non-participatory attendance is not prohibited for academic purposes; if one is going for simple educational purposes, one should not participate.

Yes, IF the Apostolic succession is unbroken (and with the Anglican involvement that is quite a question) the orders may still be valid. Far less likely, however, given the same Anglo-Protestant involvement, which includes the inherent theological problems with Protestantism (yea, even Anglicanism), is the validity of the Eucharist.

As an aside, I don’t know that the Marthomites are involved in any “reconciliation” talks with anyone. Perhaps they are, but if so, then with whom? I daresay that since they were wrenched from Syriac Orthodoxy, all they would need to do is recognize Syriac Orthodox theology and whammo! they would be in. But apparently they have not so done. Since they are Protestant for all intents and purposes, albeit under the guise of Syriac tradition, (oh please. Syriac my big toe: Protestant is Protestant. 'T’aint Orthodox. 'Tis Protestant ) I don’t see why Rome would (or even should) be directly involved.

 

[Aramis]

Since they are Protestant for all intents and purposes, albeit under the guise of Syriac tradition, (oh please. Syriac my big toe: Protestant is Protestant. 'T’aint Orthodox. 'Tis Protestant ) I don’t see why Rome would (or even should) be directly involved.

Because Christ’s Catholic Church needs to keep reaching out to our misguided brothers in hopes of them coming home to the Catholic Church and the truths it teaches.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The “Malankara Marthoma Syrian Church of Malabar” (aka the Marthoma Church) is a distinctly protestant church that retains a protestantized version of the Liturgy of St. James. The ways that this schism took place within the Malankara Church is highly controversial and many “Marthoma Church” websites do not mention the conspiracy and intrigue that took place among the main players of this schism - instead focusing on some theological formulations that came about decades later with British assistance.

The political origins of this are evident when one looks are the era of the schism. The British had started interfering in the local government and imported missionaries from the extreme low-church wing of the Church of England/Scotland. At first, the British were content to support the non-Catholic (Orthodox) Church financially, as this would counter the Portuguese influence among the Catholics. But this financial-only “help” didn’t last long. In less than a decade, the Orthodox seminary began to be infiltrated with protestant Church Missionary Society (CMS) missionaries from England. These missionaries considered the high-church wing of their own church to be in theological heresy - so they attempted to foment this same attitude within the St. Thomas (Mar Thoma) Christian community in Kerala. The non-Catholic Metropolitan of Malankara was not having that, so he cut all ties with these folks and told them to keep their seminary. The native priest who succumbed to this protestant influence and financial incentive was named Abraham Panamkuzhy Pakalomattathil of the influencial Pakalomattam family. He was raised by his uncle, Fr. Mathan Thomma - a Syriac scholar and celibate priest, after both his parents died (Rightfully, Fr. Mathan Thomma believed that the Malankara Church was heavily Latinized after the “anti-Synod” of Diamper and would speak about restoring the Church). Abraham was also a vowed celibate and professor of Syriac, but when the British governor (called British Resident, at the time) offered a Rs. 25000 “reward” for the celibate Malankara priests to get married; he become one of the first to take the offer. After this act, the British resident and CMS missionaries considered Rev. Abraham their golden boy. He acted according to CMS teaching and whenever he prayed the Holy Qurbono (Divine Liturgy), he would omit prayers he disagreed with (such as prayers for the deceased, prayers to Saints, prayers referring to Eucharist as Christ’s Real Presence, etc.) Word got around to the Metropolitan of the Malankara Church and Rev. Abraham was ordered to teach the True faith or be excommunicated. Rev. Abraham refused, and secretly sent his nephew Deacon Mathews to Antioch with falsified papers claiming that the Malankara Church had chosen Deacon Mathews to be bishop.

Deacon Mathews, having tricked the Patriarch of Antioch, came back to Kerala as Bishop Mathews Mar Athanasius and claimed jurisdiction over the entire Malankara Church. After his death, with the support of the British Resident and CMS missionaries, his cousin Bishop Thomas Mar Athanasius sued the reigning Malankara Metropolitan. The Patriarch of Antioch got word of this and sailed to Kerala to support the reigning Metropolitan. The Patriarch and reigning Malankara Metropolitan testified against Bishop Mar Athanasius in court, and the court in a split decision, ruled against Bishop Mar Athanasius (the split decision was two local judges for the Patriarch/Malankara Metropolitan and the British Resident for Bishop Mar Athanasius).

This decision left Bishop Athanasius without churches or property, but he had support in small pockets, such as his hometown.

This is how the “Malankara Marthoma Syrian Church of Malabar” (aka the Marthoma Church) was formed.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

I’m not of a maven on this topic, but the Mar Thoma Church (aka Marthomites) is, as far as I know, a Protestantized variant of the Syriac-Orthodox/Syro-Malankara tradition. It seems to have come about due to the efforts of the Anglican missionaries in Kerala, and from what I can see, it looks like a direct result of (read: retaliation for) the reunion of the Syro-Malabars. From what I understand of them, although they claim to maintain proper liturgical tradition (whether that’s true or not I can’t say since I’ve never seen it) their theology is distinctly Protestant.

Neither the Syro-Malankara Church not the Syriac Orthodox Church is in communion with it.

Malphono:

What exactly does the Syro Malabar Catholic Church, which follows the Syriac Rite of St Addai and St Mari, have to do with the history of Mar Thoma Church, which is associated with the Jacobite Church (which only since 2000 is known as Syrian Orthodox Church, so the handful of friends my family has known from Kottayam, while living outside Kerala, have always known them as Jacobites) **which follows the Syriac translation of the Greek St James Liturgy of Antioch? The Syro Malankara Catholic Church which came in communion with RCC in 1930 is the Catholic counterpart of the Jacobite Church. **

The Syro Malabar Church came in communion with RCC in 1599 and has remained in unbroken communion since then. It happened at the Synod of Diamper. synodofdiamper.com/synod.php
It might also be noted that until 1 November 1956, the present state of Kerala consisted of three separate kingdoms and political entities in the south, middle and north. Even with minor change of territories due to conquests over the centuries, three distinct parts remained. During British rule which lasted nearly 200 years in India, the present state of Kerala consisted of three regions, Princely state of Travancore, Princely state of Cochin (both only indirectly under British) and the British ruled Malabar District, the Kerala region of its Madras (now Chennai) Presidency.

The history of the Jacobite Church (known as the Syrian Orthodox Church since 2000), and its Catholic counterpart since 1930, known as the Syro Malankara Church, and Mar Thoma Church, the Protestant wing of the Jacobite Church, are confined to Travancore, in and around Kottayam Dist. The princely state of Travancore (the Travancore kingdom) has been an independent political entity in the history of Kerala, even during British rule. But during British rule, British and American missionaries were very active in Travancore in and around Kottayam because the Syro Malabar Church in full communion with RCC since 1599 was dominant in Malabar. The Latin Rite Roman Catholic Church had influence in non SMCC regions outside Travancore, especially in and around Cochin, which includes Ernakulam (ref Synod of Diamper).

After Indian independence in 1947. the princely state of Cochin and the princely state of Travancore joined in 1949 to form one political state of Travancore-Cochin. The state of Kerala was formed only on 1 November 1956 when Malabar District of geographical Kerala, ruled directly by the British as part of its Madras Presidency from far away Madras (now known as Chennai) until Indian independence in 1947, was united along linguist lines, with Travancore-Cochin to form the present Kerala state. Ernakulam District was part of the princely state of Cochin and Thrissur District has never been a part of the Princely state of Travancore.

The early Kogungallur Archdiocese (due to the fact Apostle Thomas landed there) of Syro Malabar Catholics was located in the part of Kerala that was known until 1956 as Malabar, located in what is now Thrissur District.

 

[malphono]

Malphono:

What exactly does the Syro Malabar Catholic Church, which follows the Syriac Rite of St Addai and St Mari, have to do with the history of Mar Thoma Church, which is associated with the Jacobite Church (which only since 2000 is known as Syrian Orthodox Church, so the handful of friends my family has known from Kottayam, while living outside Kerala, have always known them as Jacobites) **which follows the Syriac translation of the Greek St James Liturgy of Antioch? The Syro Malankara Catholic Church which came in communion with RCC in 1930 is the Catholic counterpart of the Jacobite Church. **

With due respect, the accusatory tone is quite out of order. Kindly reread my earlier post: it was merely a very brief comment that the Marhomites are essentially Protestant. This is also what SyroMalankara said subsequently and in far greater detail. In any case, the Marthomites came into being as a result of Anglican (read: Protestant) activity, and it would appear that such activity on the part of the Anglicans was a direct reaction to the formal reunion of the Syro-Malabar Church.

In any case, I’m rather to the point that I will heretofore refrain from making any comment on anything that has to do with any Church that may exist in Kerala. It’s really not worth the trouble.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

With due respect, the accusatory tone is quite out of order. Kindly reread my earlier post: it was merely a very brief comment that the Marhomites are essentially Protestant. This is also what SyroMalankara said subsequently and in far greater detail. In any case, the Marthomites came into being as a result of Anglican (read: Protestant) activity, and it would appear that such activity on the part of the Anglicans was a direct reaction to the formal reunion of the Syro-Malabar Church.

In any case, I’m rather to the point that I will heretofore refrain from making any comment on anything that has to do with any Church that may exist in Kerala. It’s really not worth the trouble.

Malphono:

With due respect, you have merely repeated that the history of the Mar Thoma church has got something to do with the Syro Malabar Church, although I tried to explain how it is the Protestant wing of the Jacobite Church. The post of blogger SyroMalankara confirmed its link to the Jacobite Church. Syro Malabar Christians following the Syriac Rite of Addai and Mari had been in unbroken, full communion with RCC since 1599, so I don’t see what bearing it has on British missionaries who came two centuries later to Travancore.

I do not take any opinion that differs with mine as an accusation.

British missionaries, from the perspective of the Christian Mission Society of London and others, chose the princely state of Travancore, in and around Kottayam, for their missionary activity because other areas of the current geographical Kerala, were dominated by the Syro Malabar Catholic Church (in full communion with RCC) in Malabar District of that time and Latin rite Roman Catholic Church in the princely state of Cochin at that time. Malabar District was directly under British rule, so British missionaries would under normal circumstances have chosen it, not the indirectly ruled Princely state of Travancore, if the Syro Malabar Church, in full communion with RCC, was not so dominant in Malabar District.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Dear SJ,

Please do not take offense at my statement, but it seems to me English isn’t your first language and your command of it is not fluent. When you respond to a thread regarding the Marthoma Church with some history about the princely state of Travancore, you are indirectly derailing the thread. The reason is that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic being discussed. Yes, Malphono brought up the Syro-Malabar Church indirectly, but only as a historical sidenote - you have taken that (perhaps because you command of English isn’t fluent) and given it far greater influence than is needed.

Also, as an aside, I would like to mention for the record - the Greek version of the Liturgy of St James is vastly different from the Syriac version, anyone who has participated in both will see the differences immediately.

Malphono,

Please continue to contribute to this thread, your (name removed by moderator)ut is most welcome!

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Dear SJ,

Please do not take offense at my statement, but** it seems to me English isn’t your first language and your command of it is not fluent.** When you respond to a thread regarding the Marthoma Church with some history about the princely state of Travancore, you are indirectly derailing the thread. The reason is that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic being discussed. Yes, Malphono brought up the Syro-Malabar Church indirectly, but only as a historical sidenote - you have taken that (perhaps because you command of English isn’t fluent) and given it far greater influence than is needed.

Also, as an aside, I would like to mention for the record - the Greek version of the Liturgy of St James is vastly different from the Syriac version, anyone who has participated in both will see the differences immediately.

You are right, English isn’t my first language. (Both my parents are from Thrissur Dist and I have no relatives from both sides of my parents’ family who come from other districts of Kerala.) But I must credit you with being the very first one to tell me I lack a command of the language.

And if I may be so bold as to ask if English is your first language. If you are a Malayalee, it wouldn’t be yours either, unless you were born in the US as a second generation immigrant from Kerala. Yet you seem to have pretty good command of it.

I seem to derail the subject, in your opinion, only because I ask very specific questions regarding the Greek Antiochian St James Liturgy and its Syriac translation, its introduction into Travancore, and point out to the very real political history of Travancore, Cochin and Malabar in what became Kerala only in 1956, which has a direct bearing on the subject that is being discussed on this thread.

As to the St James Liturgy of Antioch, whether or not the original Greek version resembles its Syriac translation, which I read was not done until 451 AD, you have answered a very important question, namely that the Jacobite Church in Kerala, and its Catholic counterpart, the Syro Malankara Catholic Church, follows the St James Liturgy of Antioch.

 

[malphono]

Malphono:

With due respect, you have merely repeated that the history of the Mar Thoma church has got something to do with the Syro Malabar Church, although I tried to explain how it is the Protestant wing of the Jacobite Church. The post of blogger SyroMalankara confirmed its link to the Jacobite Church. Syro Malabar Christians following the Syriac Rite of Addai and Mari had been in unbroken, full communion with RCC since 1599, so I don’t see what bearing it has on British missionaries who came two centuries later to Travancore.

I do not take any opinion that differs with mine as an accusation. …

Again, (and this is my last remark on the matter), you are misreading my earlier posts. I quite well know the difference between the Western and Eastern Syriac traditions. At no time did I suggest or even hint that the Marthomites had anything to do with the Syro-Malabars. How it is possible to read anything else into either of my earlier posts is a mystery to me.

Please bear in mind that
(a) the reunification of the Syro-Malabar Church occurred after the arrival of the Portuguese, and
(b) that the Protestantizing efforts of the Anglicans and the subsequent creation of the Marthomites occured after the arrival of the British which was after the arrival of the Portuguese.

In other words, what I am suggesting is that the two events are related only in a historical and political sense, which means the two are most likely not merely coincidental. Rather to the contrary: the appearance is that the Marthomites came about due to a combination of severely misguided religious conviction and (IMO, far more importantly) political interest on the part of the Anglicans. (Anglican missionaries spent much effort doing the exact same thing among indigenous Christian communities in the Middle East. In Kerala, they had added incentive when they saw that the Portuguese had already facilitated the reunion of the Syro-Malabar Church with Rome.)

In any event, as I said at the top of this post, this is my final remark on the matter.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Again, (and this is my last remark on the matter), you are misreading my earlier posts. I quite well know the difference between the Western and Eastern Syriac traditions. At no time did I suggest or even hint that the Marthomites had anything to do with the Syro-Malabars. How it is possible to read anything else into either of my earlier posts is a mystery to me.

Please bear in mind that
(a) the reunification of the Syro-Malabar Church occurred after the arrival of the Portuguese, and
(b) that the Protestantizing efforts of the Anglicans and the subsequent creation of the Marthomites occured after the arrival of the British which was after the arrival of the Portuguese.

In other words, what I am suggesting is that the two events are related only in a historical and political sense, which means the two are most likely not merely coincidental. Rather to the contrary: the appearance is that the Marthomites came about due to a combination of severely misguided religious conviction and (IMO, far more importantly) political interest on the part of the Anglicans. (Anglican missionaries spent much effort doing the exact same thing among indigenous Christian communities in the Middle East. In Kerala, they had added incentive when they saw that the Portuguese had already facilitated the reunion of the Syro-Malabar Church with Rome.)

In any event, as I said at the top of this post, this is my final remark on the matter.

***Reunification of the Syro Malabar Catholics after the Portuguese arrived!!! ***

When was Apostle Thomas Christians following the Syriac Rite of Addai and Mari unified with RCC before the Synod of Diamper in 1599, in the first place? It remained in full, unbroken communion with RCC since then.

I will merely repost what I posted on the SMCC thread:

I’m not adequately informed about the history of the Church to know finer details, but I’m generally wary of any attempt to create revisionist history.

So my version based on what little I know on the topic:

Although Kerala had had long connection with the Middle East since ancient times, before Vasco da Gama came to Kerala in 1498, it had had no direct contact with Europe. St Francis Xavier, who is well known to have affected mass conversions to the Latin Rite Roman Catholic Church, arrived in Kerala in 1542 from Goa, which by then had become a Portuguese colony, which encouraged Roman Catholic missionaries to come to India. It wasn’t until over half a century after the arrival of St Francis Xavier, in 1595, with much missionary work among non-Christians, by other Roman Catholic missionaries in the interim, that Alexis de Menezes, the newly appointed Archbishop of Goa, landed in Kerala to make attempts to bring all Christians, including the Apostle Thomas Christians who had been using the Syriac Rite of Addai and Mari all along in Kerala, under the Roman Catholic Church, and hence the Synod of Diamper in 1599. The Apostle Thomas Christians who used the Syriac Rite of Addai and Mari continued to use it, only they had a Roman Catholic Bishop instead of a Chaldean Bishop from ME.

The Chaldean Church in ME did not come in communion with Rome until about 1551. So how could the Apostle Thomas Christians being led by the Chaldean Bishops in Kerala have been in communion via them with RCC in Rome before 1551? But it can be said that the fact Chaldean Church had come in communion with RCC around 1551 made it simple for the Apostle Thomas Christians in Kerala following the same Syriac Rite to come in communion with RCC in 1599. There is no report showing that the Chaldean Catholic Church had sought out full communion with RCC under duress. The process of coming in full communion with RCC that takes considerable time was complete around 1551. Considering the Roman Catholic Church had no influence at all in the part of Middle East where the Chaldean Church had its base, there can be no doubt that the steps to come in full communion with RCC must have been initiated by the Chaldean Church.

 

[malphono]

***Reunification of the Syro Malabar Catholics after the Portuguese arrived!!! *** …

Obviously you don’t get my point, so please disregard my posts. If I could delete them I would do so in a flash.

This has become totally absurd. I’ll have to remember never to post anything where the word “Kerala” exists. The ensuing arguments are just not worth the trouble.

 

[pjk123]

I am a resident of Kerala ,a SMC member.​

malphono:

Please bear in mind that
(a) the reunification of the Syro-Malabar Church occurred after the arrival of the Portuguese, and
(b) that the Protestantizing efforts of the Anglicans and the subsequent creation of the Marthomites occured after the arrival of the British which was after the arrival of the Portuguese.

the part (a) is correct in the direct sense.while Before Portugese,there is no “Syro-Malabar”.before it was Syrian(suriyani -in local) Nazrani’s(Christians) who were followers of Eastern Christianity as in the lines of Addai ,Mari(Liturgy form). after Coonan Cross Oath ,today the division of Syrian Christians onto Syro-Malabar Catholic Church,Orthodox Occured.
later divisions occured in Orthodox as jacobite and Orthodox faction.while a part of jacobites returned to Catholic Church is Syro-Malankara church.

@Syro-Malankara : do the good work ,share the informations here ,especially with that from south kerala.

Catholic Church’s position on Mar Thoma Church

Mar Thoma Church is Protestent and user Syro-Malankara explained it well.

@others : Please disregard posts stating as if Travancore part of Kerala is full of Marthomites/Protestents ,Pentecostals etc.This is WRONG information.​

1.1 District wise Population
The largest Christian populated district in the Country is Ernakulam (Cochin).
** A Syrian Christian stronghold, Kottayam district has the second largest Christian population**, while Thrissur and Thiruvananthapuram districts are placed at fourth and fifth place. Kanyakumari in Tamil Nadu is the district with the third largest Christian population in India.3]

nasrani.net/2007/02/13/stthomas-christians-demography/

I would like to tell ,SyrianChristians irrespective of the rites and denominations - Travancore part is where most population exists -Especially in Kottayam,Idukki,Pathanamthitta,Alappuzha(Kuttanad areas esp)/.Most of these are Orthodox/Jacobite Denominations as well as Syro-Malabar ,Syro-Malankara members .Note that these churches except marthoma are not heretics with respect to Roman Catholicism.
Only Marthoma church is what is infested with protestent -anglican ways.which got least members in Travancore part.

Clarifications:

1. Cochin Kingdom before independence consists only of current city of Cochin and some small parts southwards until Cherthala town(alappey district).
   Almost all parts of Ernakulam District was parts of Travancore.be it n.paravoor,aluva,perumbavoor southwards.
   while thrissor,palakkad(kollamkode) etc where parts of cochin state.
2. **Malabar Historically got almost No Syrian Christians until the Migration from Meenachil Taluk and Kottayam District of Syro-Malabar Catholics on 1900’s.

although malabar claims syrian christians during very early years(AD100) ,either they may got converted to Islam under the swashbucklers of Islam from West India or part of malabar syrian christians must have fled the part due to unknown causes to south may be it is Tipu Sultan’s Conquest .
**3) Travancore was not under British.Travancore was a separate country with two divisions- north and south ,most prosperous among all the other parts -be it cochin or Malabar.british was a ally ,who saved Travancore from Islamization by Tipu Sultan.
for more info on erstwhile Travancore state:
keralatourism.info/infobin/tvm.html
memories-and-musings.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html
Please read this :
nasrani.net/2007/02/13/stthomas-christians-demography/
nasrani.net/2007/03/31/nasrani-church-festivals-in-central-kerala/
SMC :
syromalabar.com/the-church/history/syro-malabar-church/syro-malabar-church.htm​

Please Continue the discussion.
Thanks.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

I am a resident of Kerala ,a SMC member.​

the part (a) is correct in the direct sense.while Before Portugese,there is no “Syro-Malabar”.before it was Syrian(suriyani -in local) Nazrani’s(Christians) who were followers of Eastern Christianity as in the lines of Addai ,Mari(Liturgy form). after Coonan Cross Oath ,today the division of Syrian Christians onto Syro-Malabar Catholic Church,Orthodox Occured.
later divisions occured in Orthodox as jacobite and Orthodox faction.while a part of jacobites returned to Catholic Church is Syro-Malankara church.

@Syro-Malankara : do the good work ,share the informations here ,especially with that from south kerala.

Mar Thoma Church is Protestent and user Syro-Malankara explained it well.

@others : Please disregard posts stating as if Travancore part of Kerala is full of Marthomites/Protestents ,Pentecostals etc.This is WRONG information.​

nasrani.net/2007/02/13/stthomas-christians-demography/

I would like to tell ,SyrianChristians irrespective of the rites and denominations - Travancore part is where most population exists -Especially in Kottayam,Idukki,Pathanamthitta,Alappuzha(Kuttanad areas esp)/.Most of these are Orthodox/Jacobite Denominations as well as Syro-Malabar ,Syro-Malankara members .Note that these churches except marthoma are not heretics with respect to Roman Catholicism.
Only Marthoma church is what is infested with protestent -anglican ways.which got least members in Travancore part.

Clarifications:

1. Cochin Kingdom before independence consists only of current city of Cochin and some small parts southwards until Cherthala town(alappey district).
   Almost all parts of Ernakulam District was parts of Travancore.be it n.paravoor,aluva,perumbavoor southwards.
   while thrissor,palakkad(kollamkode) etc where parts of cochin state.
2. **Malabar Historically got almost No Syrian Christians until the Migration from Meenachil Taluk and Kottayam District of Syro-Malabar Catholics on 1900’s.

although malabar claims syrian christians during very early years(AD100) ,either they may got converted to Islam under the swashbucklers of Islam from West India or part of malabar syrian christians must have fled the part due to unknown causes to south may be it is Tipu Sultan’s Conquest .
**3) Travancore was not under British.Travancore was a separate country with two divisions- north and south ,most prosperous among all the other parts -be it cochin or Malabar.british was a ally ,who saved Travancore from Islamization by Tipu Sultan.
for more info on erstwhile Travancore state:
keralatourism.info/infobin/tvm.html
memories-and-musings.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html
Please read this :
nasrani.net/2007/02/13/stthomas-christians-demography/
nasrani.net/2007/03/31/nasrani-church-festivals-in-central-kerala/
SMC :
syromalabar.com/the-church/history/syro-malabar-church/syro-malabar-church.htm​

Please Continue the discussion.
Thanks.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

PJK:

You seem to be on a mission to discredit the claims of Syro Malabar Christians in Thrissur District. I wonder why.

Your posts would seem to imply that Thrissur Archdiocese has put up a website with misinformation. How I miss my paternal grandmother and my father now! They could have answered so many questions because they were so much a part of Thrissur and were well informed. I used to be bored with any attempt on their part to tell me about the living traditions. So I learned only a little from them, but I realize the little I learned is extremely valuable.

I suggest anyone who reads the posts from different perspectives on Christianity in Kerala, take the time to read the political history of present day Kerala, which was formed only in 1956, in great detail. The history of Travancore, Cochin and Malabar which constitutes the present Kerala state need to be read as the history of three separate peoples, under separate rulers with a separate history and to a large extent even the culture and attitudes, who merely happen to speak the same language. Just like the history of Germany, Austria and German speaking part of Switzerland are different. The Austrians, Germans and German Swiss are united by a common language but they are three separate countries with a different history. Similarly Travancore, Cochin and Malabar were separate political entities before it was united as Kerala State on 1 November 1956, nine years after Indian independence in 1947.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

ALL:

Just like the rest of you, I seek the truth, nothing but the truth. I would throw away the unbroken living tradition of Apostle Thomas in my native Taluk (Chavakkad) and my Archdiocese (Thrissur) if anyone could convince me on what basis I should suspect its authenticity.

To have a full understanding of the history of Christianity in Kerala it would be essential to know in detail the work of two groups: 1. the Latin Rite Roman Catholic Church and their missionaries who worked in Kerala starting with St Francis Xavier, especially in and around Cochin-Ernakulam; how the Portuguese colony in Goa had an impact on Roman Catholic missionaries and RCC in Kerala; 2. British (CMS of London among others) and American missionaries in the Princely State of Travancore, in and around present day Kottayam District.

The Syriac Rite of Addai and Mari (developed by the disciples of Apostle Thomas who go by those names), followed by the Syro Malabar Catholic Church in Kerala is the definitive proof of its connection and union with the Apostle Thomas tradition in the Middle East via the Chaldean Church, which sent Bishops to Kerala, and the Orthodox counterpart, The Assyrian Church of the East. Apostle Thomas is said to have preached in Edessa before he came to India in 52 AD, hence his body was transported back to Edessa from Mylapore (a part of current Chennai, in the state of Tamil Nad) where he was martyred in 72 AD.

Kodungallur and Chavakkad (where Palayur/oor is located) Taluks, are an integral part of the unbroken, living Apostle Thomas tradition, is part of Thrissur District.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Some information on history of Christianity in Kerala, pertaining to Thrissur and Cochin-Ernakulam:

Archdiocese of Thrissur (Syriac Rite of Addai and Mari - Syro Malabar Catholic)

trichurarchdiocese.org

cbcisite.com/Trichur.htm

Archdiocese of Veropoly (Latin Rite Roman Catholic)

verapolyarchdiocese.org/history.htm

cbcisite.com/Verapoly%20Archdiocese.htm

 

[SyroMalankara]

This is just absurd and getting disruptive. There is no need to post the same information in three separate threads about different topics.

There is no opportunity for anyone to write anything without the post being derailed with some tangent.