Catholic Church's stance on gun ownership

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What a joke. In normal civilised countries guns and other weapons are banned. Our safety and welfare is in the hands of the police force. Apart from locking your doors and windows there is nothing else to do. We don’t go around the house carrying baseball bats or whatever in case an intruder comes in.
I invite you to join the rest of the world and find out how things actually are in the real world. Perhaps you live in a city, minutes away from a police station. Many do not and I do not plan to sit and wait for the police to arrive while some criminal ransacks my house or worse.
 
Where I live, we don’t even have a police department. We are served by the county Sheriff and unless there is a deputy in the area (which is unlikely most of the time), the barracks is 20-30 minutes away. Even if they drove at twice the speed limit, it would still take them 10-15 minutes to reach us … which is a VERY long time when seconds count!
 
Where I live, we don’t even have a police department. We are served by the county Sheriff and unless there is a deputy in the area (which is unlikely most of the time), the barracks is 20-30 minutes away. Even if they drove at twice the speed limit, it would still take them 10-15 minutes to reach us … which is a VERY long time when seconds count!
So are you trying to tell me that in the US most people or a large percentage of the population permanently live their daily lives in fear wondering if they will get mugged or if someone will break into their homes and attack them and their families. That doesn’t sound like much of a life.

How come in the UK and other Europoean countries where weapons are forbidden for self defence we don’t live like that. To the other poster who mentioned hunting rifles, they are specifically for that. They are forbidden to be used for protection of self and family.
We don’t live a life of fear. The police protect the people. When at home you make sure you house is secure, i.e. lock the doors and windows. Maybe have an alarm (no weapons are allowed). When out you simply avoid areas you know are prone to violence. There is nothing else to do and we live normal lives. From your descriptions it sounds live people in the US are both scared to go out and stay in because no place is safe!
 
So are you trying to tell me that in the US most people or a large percentage of the population permanently live their daily lives in fear wondering if they will get mugged or if someone will break into their homes and attack them and their families. That doesn’t sound like much of a life.
Fear is meant to alert one to a danger. Once one takes the proper steps to address that danger, there is no longer a need to be afraid.
How come in the UK and other Europoean countries where weapons are forbidden for self defence we don’t live like that. To the other poster who mentioned hunting rifles, they are specifically for that. They are forbidden to be used for protection of self and family.
We don’t live a life of fear. The police protect the people. When at home you make sure you house is secure, i.e. lock the doors and windows. Maybe have an alarm (no weapons are allowed). When out you simply avoid areas you know are prone to violence. There is nothing else to do and we live normal lives. From your descriptions it sounds live people in the US are both scared to go out and stay in because no place is safe!
Perhaps the reason why people in England do not live in fear is because they are ignorant of what is happening around them. I present the following for your consideration …

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

… which clearly shows a significant increase in violent crime in the UK when handguns were banned SURPASSING the violent crime rate here in America – according to our own respective government’s statistics, London has nearly a 50% (49.3% to be exact) HIGHER murder rate than Detroit (one of America’s more violent cities).

Less guns means more illegal crimes with guns …

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
reason.com/blog/show/122163.html
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk…cle2317307.ece
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e…on/6966127.stm
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e…on/6964768.stm
 
And what happens when your police become like the Chinese police/government? Who protects the people from the police?
Strange comment. How does that possibly apply to the European countries?
 
Fear is meant to alert one to a danger. Once one takes the proper steps to address that danger, there is no longer a need to be afraid.

Perhaps the reason why people in England do not live in fear is because they are ignorant of what is happening around them. I present the following for your consideration …

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x91/ngetch/CAF images/UKVCR.jpg

… which clearly shows a significant increase in violent crime in the UK when handguns were banned SURPASSING the violent crime rate here in America – according to our own respective government’s statistics, London has nearly a 50% (49.3% to be exact) HIGHER murder rate than Detroit (one of America’s more violent cities).

Less guns means more illegal crimes with guns …

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm
reason.com/blog/show/122163.html
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk…cle2317307.ece
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e…on/6966127.stm
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e…on/6964768.stm
This thread is not about statistics which is just as well since the US per head of population has more murders and violent crimes, including rapes than any countries in the European Union.

As for your other comment:

QUOTE Fear is meant to alert one to a danger. Once one takes the proper steps to address that danger, there is no longer a need to be afraid.
UNQUOTE

Well I am really interested to hear how you personally do that unless you simply mean by carrying a weapon of some kind.
 
This thread is not about statistics which is just as well since the US per head of population has more murders and violent crimes, including rapes than any countries in the European Union.
Not true. Here are the statistics on rape per 1,000 persons. The top ten for developed countries are

#1 New Zealand:
#2 Austria:
#3 Finland:
#4 Sweden:
#5 Australia:
#6 United Kingdom:
#7 Netherlands:
#8 Canada:
#9 Slovenia:
#10 France:

The US comes in at #14

nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims

And total violent crime per capita

#1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people
#2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people
#3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people
#4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people
#5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people
#6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people
#8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people
#9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people
 
This thread is not about statistics …
You are correct, this thread is NOT about statistics. It is about the Church’s position regarding the ownership and use of firearms and that question has already been answered …

The Catholic Church supports the private ownership and use of firearms for self defense purposes (Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, “The International Arms Trade: an Ethical Reflection” in Origins 8 (24), 7 July 1994, p. 144) and those who do not own a gun or take other steps to properly prepare themselves to deal with threats to their safety, have failed in the GRAVE duty required of them resulting in the commission of a mortal sin of omission (Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 5, Subsection 1, Heading 2, Paragraphs 2263-2265 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church).

As for the rest of your UNSUPPORTED comments, I see that they have already been refuted by others WITH supporting references to back up their position.
 
And what happens when your police become like the Chinese police/government? Who protects the people from the police?
LOL, you’ve got to be kidding me?! Now, I know for sure that Americans are a paranoid bunch!
 
Sexual assault statistics are mis-leading.

Canada doesn’t use the turn rape, rather sexual assault. A butt grab under the law is a sexual assault in Canada.

I don’t know how the stats could collect Canadian rapes per 1000 people, when the term rape does not appear in Canadian legal circles or within law enforcement.

Those stats are garbage.

Everyone knows that U.S. is the most dangerous, well armed and most violent developed nation on the planet. Of that, there is no debate.
 
Let us be a bit more pragmatical.

Is it a sin to own a gun?

No.

Is it worth it to own a gun?

Depends. Can you trust yourself and your family not to kill someone for no good reason. If yes, then ask if you can afford it.

Do you need it?

Heck, who *doesn’t * need one these days. If we have nuts who chop their mothers heads off and mothers who kill their children while still in them, even I sleep with a knife under my pillow.

And a nice one too. Rambo style.

But I am at a loss for long distance attacks.

My slingshot broke. 😦
 
Sexual assault statistics are mis-leading.

Canada doesn’t use the turn rape, rather sexual assault. A butt grab under the law is a sexual assault in Canada.
The United Nations defined a standard for crime reporting. The United States, like Canada, uses the term ‘sexual assault’ in several degrees.

What the UN classifies as ‘rape’ (and what is used in International crime reporting) is Sexual Assault in the 1st degree, otherwise known as forceable sexual penetration.

So yes, those statistics are vaild, as they conform to the UN standards, in fact they come directly from the UN’s own commission on crime, the United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute (UNICRI)
 
Paranoia and fear are contagious in America.
You bet.

But I bought it when I moved from the US.

I got it because I was sleeping in an area with many robbers and no one around me ever caught them because they sleep to heavy.

I’ll hear a devil coming with a bad idea.
 
liberational, Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When someone carries a gun, you cannot deal with them by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade them, because they have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] criminal to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the criminal’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation … and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

The above was discussed in my concealed weapons class and I’ve tried to re-iterate it as best as I could remember it. I wish I had the original text because the instructor presented it much better than I but I hope that I got the main points across.
 
The United Nations defined a standard for crime reporting. The United States, like Canada, uses the term ‘sexual assault’ in several degrees.

What the UN classifies as ‘rape’ (and what is used in International crime reporting) is Sexual Assault in the 1st degree, otherwise known as forceable sexual penetration.

So yes, those statistics are vaild, as they conform to the UN standards.
Sorry, penetrative or forceable sexual assault does not exist in Canada within the criminal code, the Crown or within law enforcement.

Secondly, Canada’s stats are not subject to or created in the spirit of the United Nations standard for crime reporting…in that you are wrong and in that I have no doubt.

Sexual assault

Sexual assault cause bodily harm

Aggravated sexual assault ( short of attempted murder)

Those are the categories…you don’t know what your talking about.
 
You bet.

But I bought it when I moved from the US.

I got it because I was sleeping in an area with many robbers and no one around me ever caught them because they sleep to heavy.

I’ll hear a devil coming with a bad idea.
So you plan on shooting the teenager who tries to seal your DVD player?
 
I am all ok for owning a gun. But not with the American spirit.

I don’t idolize owning a gun. In fact, if I can humiliate some fool with words before I actually hurt him, I prefer that.

Second to that is givining him a beating that even his hair will feel it…

A gun is no fun.

Unless it is 20 against 1 with guns as well, I ain’t shooting.

At least not to kill. ( I got a pretty good accuracy.)

Plus in my condition, to own a gun wouldn’t look good.

But in this crazy world, I would if I could.

A small Glock would do.

Though pepper spray must be fun to use.! 😃
 
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