Catholic Communist

[Geist]

Socialism is an economic model in which some property/industry is held by the state and the rest is private.

Thats really all it is.

I for one like this model because I wouldn’t want to have to traverse 47 different private roads every day.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

No, I don’t claim that and would argue against the idea that the Church holds to distributism.

.

Thanks for the clarification and my apologies. I’m finding it very difficult to figure out precisely what people are saying here. So far I’m learning that anything that people consider “radical” is out of bounds merely for the sake of being “radical”, which is confusing, to say the least - because at one point, abolitionism was “radical”! For that matter, so was liberal democracy or representative government.

 

[tafan]

Thanks for the clarification and my apologies. I’m finding it very difficult to figure out precisely what people are saying here. So far I’m learning that anything that people consider “radical” is out of bounds merely for the sake of being “radical”, which is confusing, to say the least - because at one point, abolitionism was “radical”! For that matter, so was liberal democracy or representative government.

Where are you learning that? I haven’t seen it posted on the thread at all. To the original question, Communism isn’t condemned simply for being radical, but for being horrifically evil, at it’s core, and it cannot be reformed. I think, a lot of people, dissatisfied with the economic problems are once more seeking that " radical" solution, in the vain hope of level of utopia. So the thought is, it could work, the soviets just made a few mistakes. Not the case, it is evil, it has a batting average of 1000 in being evil.

 

[karaleigh]

Where are you learning that? I haven’t seen it posted on the thread at all. To the original question, Communism isn’t condemned simply for being radical, but for being horrifically evil, at it’s core, and it cannot be reformed. I think, a lot of people, dissatisfied with the economic problems are once more seeking that " radical" solution, in the vain hope of level of utopia. So the thought is, it could work, the soviets just made a few mistakes. Not the case, it is evil, it has a batting average of 1000 in being evil.

Communism hated King’s Authority. Though America is not a communist country, we still made King and Queen’s illegal. Why Russia chose complete isolation is for historians to say. But, all things are made anew under the authority of the Living Lord.

Russia via Putin re-enters Christian/secular religious teaching …

 

[tafan]

Communism hated King’s Authority. Though America is not a communist country, we still made King and Queen’s illegal. Why Russia chose complete isolation is for historians to say. But, all things are made anew under the authority of the Living Lord.

Russia via Putin re-enters Christian/secular religious teaching …

So now we are down to implications that soviet Russia simply hated the king’s authority and so their motives are not that different than the founding fathers of the US.

I fear we will see communism raise its horrificly ugly head again, as people obviously have little knowledge of how bad it is.

We have seen people say all it has to do is discard atheism, it is comparable to Catholic religious orders, and it is now comparable to the founding fathers.

This thread is quite terrifying.

 

[jonbhorton]

So now we are down to implications that soviet Russia simply hated the king’s authority and so their motives are not that different than the founding fathers of the US.

I fear we will see communism raise its horrificly ugly head again, as people obviously have little knowledge of how bad it is.

We have seen people say all it has to do is discard atheism, it is comparable to Catholic religious orders, and it is now comparable to the founding fathers.
**
This thread is quite terrifying**.

Indeed.

Per the Russian link, I wonder if Putin is trying to merely keep Russia from becoming a huge mohammedan nation. They’re well on their way. Christians can be controlled generally (sadly), mohammedanism’s member body generally can’t, except by mohammedanism.

Communists love a Christian that will say, “yes, comrade caesar, the Bible tells me so”. To that, I say: “where, and what context?”.

And some Christians love communists that say, “social justice, brother! it’s for the baby!”

 

[JRKH]

So now we are down to implications that soviet Russia simply hated the king’s authority and so their motives are not that different than the founding fathers of the US.

I fear we will see communism raise its horrifically ugly head again, as people obviously have little knowledge of how bad it is.

We have seen people say all it has to do is discard atheism, it is comparable to Catholic religious orders, and it is now comparable to the founding fathers.

This thread is quite terrifying.

It’s interesting that when a person attempts to disassemble the components of commune-ism and point out that the commune (commune-ity) model of sharing all things in common is not exclusively atheistic, it frightens you.
The root of the word communism is commune. I did not create that. It is the same root that we get community from. What do we call religious houses? Communities. I did not make that up either.
You and others have put forth the idea that Communism has, at it’s core, Atheism. I, and others have merely pointed out that this is not necessarily the case. Marx and Lenin and Mao and others who have built off of their model DID include Atheism in their Marxist/Leninist model of communism.
Saint Francis, in his community model did not. St Benedict did not…etc.

I’ve already said and I hold to it that communism, by its very nature is not possible on any large scale. In small manageable units a group of people can live quite well while holding all things in common. A village might be able to function quite well in this way - a nation…Nope…ain’t gonna work. Not because because of “atheism” but because of sin. The temptations to greed are just too powerful…

I DO agree that an atheistic totalitarian evil will raise it’s ugly head once again. It may not, and indeed likely will not, be called communism when it comes. It may be called something else. But regardless of what it is called, it will be the sin of men that bring it about regardless of the manner in which it is sold.

Peace
James

 

[tafan]

You yourself agreed that this thread was all about Communism with a capital C; ie Marxism. Associating these good and holy Christian communities with Communism is calumny, plain and simple.
And the implication that Communism could work like those, if it simply didn’t have the atheist baggage shows a truly terrifying lack of knowledge of Communism. If we don’t know how horrible and evil it is, we are liable to try it again. With the recent violence in Europe and an outlook of a lot of social unrest for the next few years due to economic conditions; I think the threat is very real.

Seeing Communism defended on a Catholic forum only affirms those fears

This thread is not about etymology of the word. Communism is much more than the etymology would imply.

 

[JRKH]

Well Tafan, if the thread is to be restricted entirely to Marxist Communism then I do agree and happily concede your points.

So - Since it is felt that my attempt to discuss aspects of small “c” communism is off topic, I will withdraw from the conversation.

Peace
James

 

[tafan]

JRKH, go read the rule of St Benedict or the rule of St Francsis; you will never find the word communism. Those orders not choose to use that word to describe their communities, either capital or little c. They don’t even refer to their communites as communes. Maybe out of respect for them, you should also desist.

It was you who introduced two different meanings of the word, after conflating the two in your early posts. It was me who pointed out clearly, which of your two meanings the CCC referred to, and you agreed. Yet, in respect to the Church’s teachings, you continue to make the association and confusion between the two.

My opinion, the word communism is well understood, and ALWAYS has been to mean Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, etc. The word communism was never used to refer to the type of communities you apply it towards.

 

[JRKH]

JRKH, go read the rule of St Benedict or the rule of St Francsis; you will never find the word communism. Those orders not choose to use that word to describe their communities, either capital or little c. They don’t even refer to their communites as communes. Maybe out of respect for them, you should also desist.

In case you didn’t comprehend my last posting…I HAVE desisted…

That said, I find your opening statement rather humorous…It’s like when the protestant evangelical bible thumper says “where is the word pope in the bible”…

It was you who introduced two different meanings of the word, after conflating the two in your early posts.

You mean that it was me who introduced the documented meanings given in the Dictionary…for the purpose of providing some clarity to the discussion.

It was me who pointed out clearly, which of your two meanings the CCC referred to, and you agreed. Yet, in respect to the Church’s teachings, you continue to make the association and confusion between the two.

Well - Personally I’m not confused at all…

My opinion, the word communism is well understood, and ALWAYS has been to mean Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, etc. The word communism was never used to refer to the type of communities you apply it towards.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Peace
James

 

[St_Francis]

Is it possible for a Catholic to be a Communist or a Socialist. Not that I support the two I’m just wondering what the Church’s view of the two are?

So, Swiss Guard, has your question been answered? Or would like more information?

 

[karaleigh]

It’s interesting that when a person attempts to disassemble the components of commune-ism and point out that the commune (commune-ity) model of sharing all things in common is not exclusively atheistic, it frightens you.
The root of the word communism is commune. I did not create that. It is the same root that we get community from. What do we call religious houses? Communities. I did not make that up either.
You and others have put forth the idea that Communism has, at it’s core, Atheism. I, and others have merely pointed out that this is not necessarily the case. Marx and Lenin and Mao and others who have built off of their model DID include Atheism in their Marxist/Leninist model of communism.
Saint Francis, in his community model did not. St Benedict did not…etc.

I’ve already said and I hold to it that communism, by its very nature is not possible on any large scale. In small manageable units a group of people can live quite well while holding all things in common. A village might be able to function quite well in this way - a nation…Nope…ain’t gonna work. Not because because of “atheism” but because of sin. The temptations to greed are just too powerful…

I DO agree that an atheistic totalitarian evil will raise it’s ugly head once again. It may not, and indeed likely will not, be called communism when it comes. It may be called something else. But regardless of what it is called, it will be the sin of men that bring it about regardless of the manner in which it is sold.

Peace
James

Amen!