Catholic definition of friendship?

[EasterJoy]

Honestly Gordon. Some people have real problems. This ain’t one of them.

A friend who gives himself permission to bully you because he’s bullying you into something totally religious actually is a real problem.

 

[pianistclare]

A friend who gives himself permission to bully you because he’s bullying you into something totally religious actually is a real problem.

Talking about the faith is BULLYING???
Seriously, you’ve got to be kidding.

The rate at which GS complains about all of his friends is alarming…and you think THIS guy is a bully?

Unsubscribing. :banghead:

 

[Irishmom2]

A friend who gives himself permission to bully you because he’s bullying you into something totally religious actually is a real problem.

Actually, unless he tells his friend how he feels and asks him why he is behaving this way, the friend didnt need permission, Gordon gave it to him by not stopping it.

I agree with whoever said that the friend is a hypocrite. I don’t care how religious he is, he wouldn’t be my friend if he is going to set different standards for friends and dictate his version of what the rules will be. Nope. I make my own rules too.

 

[EasterJoy]

Actually, unless he tells his friend how he feels and asks him why he is behaving this way, the friend didnt need permission, Gordon gave it to him by not stopping it.

I agree with whoever said that the friend is a hypocrite. I don’t care how religious he is, he wouldn’t be my friend if he is going to set different standards for friends and dictate his version of what the rules will be. Nope. I make my own rules too.

Talking about the faith is BULLYING???
Seriously, you’ve got to be kidding.

The rate at which GS complains about all of his friends is alarming…and you think THIS guy is a bully?

Unsubscribing. :banghead:

Look a little more carefully at how he is acting, Pianistclare. Is this how you treat your “friends”?

*I quickly realized that **he blocked me off *from every aspect of his life other than religion. We can’t talk about work, family or much of anything else other than religion. He has no problem talking about last week’s homily, this week’s Gospel, whether to say the Fatima prayer while praying the Rosary, etc., but as soon as I bring up any of the stuff we used to talk about he shuts me down. It’s also impossible to talk to him about any problems anymore since all he’s able to do is get a sour look on his face and lecture me on forgiveness. I finally asked him about the change and he said that, since we’re Catholics, we need to have a Catholic [sic] friendship. All that other stuff–joking around, playing pool, talking about work, etc.–is for secular friends, not Catholic ones.

Gordon has made it quite clear that he would like to continue to talk about the things they used to talk about. His friend is refusing to do that and trying to imply that their Catholic faith gives him the right to dictate what they will and won’t talk about and what activities they will do together. I mean it in the kindergarten sense, there is no serious intimidation, but it sounds like a bully to me.

If I had a five-year-old who treated his little friends like this, I’d tell him to cut it out and do what his friends want to do and talk about what they want to talk about some of the time, rather than thinking he gets to decide everything just because *he *thinks it is “more holy.” Behavior like this is obnoxious even in kindergarteners, kids who do this quickly find they don’t have anyone who wants to be their friend, and it doesn’t get better with age.

Since he was willing to do the kind of things Gordon is suggesting back when he didn’t know Gordon was Catholic, this is a serious bait-and-switch, too. Since he still does this stuff with other people, it is served up with a healthy scoop of hypocrisy on top, too. I wouldn’t have a bit of trouble saying so. He can either learn to “share the crayons” or else find a Catholic who wants to let him boss them around. (Good luck with that, buddy. Even the monks have leisure time…)

As for Gordon finding fault with other people, they have a saying in medicine that even patients with Munchausen Syndrome get sick. Gordon may be in the wrong with how he treats other people, but it would be irrelevant. His friend would still be out of bounds.

 

[DakiniArtist]

Wow. I had a similar question. I struck up a friendship with a gal at our parish. All she wants to talk about is the faith. I cannot talk to her about movies or anything. I did tell her how I felt and she blew up and tried to lay a big, fat guilt trip on me.

Not to de-rail the thread, and I don’t know the OP in person, but, yeah… It’s like a one-way street relationship. My gal also wanted a “Catholic friendship” and said she has “no other friends” and always complained that other people tell her she’s “obsessed” with the Church, etc.

I have no advice. I do know we all see those red flags in the beginning. Many times we ignore them. Later we wish we’d followed our gut!

 

[balto]

Talking about the faith is BULLYING???
Seriously, you’ve got to be kidding.

The rate at which GS complains about all of his friends is alarming…and you think THIS guy is a bully?

Unsubscribing. :banghead:

I’m sorry to see you go, because your posts are the only voice of reason on this entire thread. It’s amazing how fast people are quick to judge someone they know nothing about other than through a single Internet post by someone who has historically had all kinds of bizarre mishaps with other friends.

This is the most likely scenario: OP is friends with this guy through their wives like he said. The friend does not have too many Catholic friends, or at least none that are devout. He finds out that the OP is Catholic and is excited to share his faith with the OP. His faith is very important and he wants to grow in holiness since he has a unique interest with the OP that he doesn’t share with anyone else. Seriously, this is what most friendships are about, at least initially: a common shared interest. OP asks him why can’t they go back to talking about what they used to talk about, and the friend says something innocent along the lines of “well we’re both Catholics and the Catholic faith is important to us, so we should be discussing Catholic things.” OP tries to talk about other things, but the friend always brings it back to religion and OP interprets it as implied hostility, when the friend is thinking that we both are committed Catholics and this is good for both of us.

I don’t know what is so strange about any of this. I have a couple of friends that I principally only discuss Catholicism with, but shockingly it has never been an issue with me nor the friends.

People on here jump to the absurd conclusion almost immediately that he is a hypocrite, that he’s using the OP, or even a bully. Seriously, if the guy was any of those the behavior would have been manifest long before he found out the OP was Catholic. He just magically turns into a bully after getting excited learning that the OP is Catholic? Come on now, that doesn’t even make an ounce of sense. So now people counsel the OP to just ditch the guy for no reason at all and he’s left around thinking “what did I ever do? Was it something I said?” Apparently people don’t understand how bad that makes someone feel. You’re not even given the dignity of closure and are left to mull over every little thing that you’ve ever done in his presence thinking “was it that, maybe he interpreted it like this, but I didn’t really mean that, and now he’ll never speak to me again…”

 

[balto]

Not to de-rail the thread, and I don’t know the OP in person, but, yeah… It’s like a one-way street relationship. My gal also wanted a “Catholic friendship” and said she has “no other friends” and always complained that other people tell her she’s “obsessed” with the Church, etc.

Maybe she doesn’t have any other friends. Do you know what that’s like? It’s a terrible feeling. You’re already a reserved person who isn’t very social, and has interests that don’t jive with the majority of people you meet. You find someone who at least claims to have similar interests, so you strike up one of the only possible friendships you could have, get excited about the shared interest since the other person claims to be interested in it too. Assume that the other person values you as a friend like you do to them, apparently falsely. And then the “friend” just drops off the face of the earth and acts like they don’t know who you are when you try to contact them, because you’re not what they’re looking for in a friend. You never tried to take them away from their interests, since you focused on one of the few things you had in common around them, but apparently you’re supposed to abandon yours for theirs. It sucks. I guess it’s good to finally know what motivates people…

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m sorry to see you go, because your posts are the only voice of reason on this entire thread. It’s amazing how fast people are quick to judge someone they know nothing about other than through a single Internet post by someone who has historically had all kinds of bizarre mishaps with other friends.

This is the most likely scenario: OP is friends with this guy through their wives like he said. The friend does not have too many Catholic friends, or at least none that are devout. He finds out that the OP is Catholic and is excited to share his faith with the OP. His faith is very important and he wants to grow in holiness since he has a unique interest with the OP that he doesn’t share with anyone else. Seriously, this is what most friendships are about, at least initially: a common shared interest. OP asks him why can’t they go back to talking about what they used to talk about, and the friend says something innocent along the lines of “well we’re both Catholics and the Catholic faith is important to us, so we should be discussing Catholic things.” OP tries to talk about other things, but the friend always brings it back to religion and OP interprets it as implied hostility, when the friend is thinking that we both are committed Catholics and this is good for both of us.

I don’t know what is so strange about any of this. I have a couple of friends that I principally only discuss Catholicism with, but shockingly it has never been an issue with me nor the friends.

People on here jump to the absurd conclusion almost immediately that he is a hypocrite, that he’s using the OP, or even a bully. Seriously, if the guy was any of those the behavior would have been manifest long before he found out the OP was Catholic. He just magically turns into a bully after getting excited learning that the OP is Catholic? Come on now, that doesn’t even make an ounce of sense. So now people counsel the OP to just ditch the guy for no reason at all and he’s left around thinking “what did I ever do? Was it something I said?” Apparently people don’t understand how bad that makes someone feel. You’re not even given the dignity of closure and are left to mull over every little thing that you’ve ever done in his presence thinking “was it that, maybe he interpreted it like this, but I didn’t really mean that, and now he’ll never speak to me again…”

It is fair to say that the person is not necessarily a bully or a hypocrite: that is, that these are not durable or pervasive character traits. If what I said sounds like that, then that is a fair criticism of it. It is also fair to say, however, that the* behavior* he is using to create a All-Faith-All-The-Time friendship for himself is bullying and the behavior of refusing to share simple pleasures with one friend that you are totally willing to share with others because that stuff is someone beneath you is hypocritical. If it is beneath you, then don’t do it with anybody! There is nothing wrong with telling him to cut it out, because the terms of this friendship are being decided unilaterally.

I think the difference of opinion here comes from those of us who have had this tactic tried on us and those who have not. Do any of you who think this is OK actually have any friends like this? Do you do this to anyone? Well, if it is so Catholic and wonderful, why not? The reason is that after awhile, you do feel used, as if this person hounding you all the time is a theology vampire. If you were a chef, and all someone ever wanted was your recipes or a doctor or lawyer and all they wanted to do was to pump you for stories from your profession, I tell you that it does get old and it does feel as if the person isn’t interested in you so much as what he or she can get out of you. That does not change just because the topic is virtuous.

The OP is not asking to do or talk about anything immoral. He is not asking to do or talk about anything that his friend has renounced doing or doesn’t want to share with anybody else. He is not asking that they not talk about the faith. No, he is only asking that they do and talk about some of the same things this fellows does do with others and talks about with others, rather than talking about the faith and only about the faith, even though one of these friends has clearly let it be known that he doesn’t want such strict boundaries on their relationship.

 

[EasterJoy]

Maybe she doesn’t have any other friends. Do you know what that’s like? It’s a terrible feeling. You’re already a reserved person who isn’t very social, and has interests that don’t jive with the majority of people you meet. You find someone who at least claims to have similar interests, so you strike up one of the only possible friendships you could have, get excited about the shared interest since the other person claims to be interested in it too. Assume that the other person values you as a friend like you do to them, apparently falsely. And then the “friend” just drops off the face of the earth and acts like they don’t know who you are when you try to contact them, because you’re not what they’re looking for in a friend. You never tried to take them away from their interests, since you focused on one of the few things you had in common around them, but apparently you’re supposed to abandon yours for theirs. It sucks. I guess it’s good to finally know what motivates people…

It is a work of mercy to bear the wrongs of others. It would be charitable to put up with this fellow and his perseveration on things religious. That doesn’t make it a two-way friendship.

That wasn’t the question. The question was whether it is true that a truly “Catholic friendship” must be as narrow as the OP’s acquaintance suggests. The answer is no. It is self-centered to dictate the terms of a friendship to suit yourself, deciding that you are only willing to do what you want to do all of the time and only talk about the things you want to talk about all of the time, rather than accommodating the other person by being willing to do things with your friend that you are totally willing to do at other times with other people.

 

[Patavium]

I agree that friendship focused on the Catholic faith alone all the time is fine. It is enjoyable as well. However, such friendship should not be forced on another simply because they are devoted Catholics.

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree that friendship focused on the Catholic faith alone all the time is fine. It is enjoyable as well. However, such friendship should not be forced on another simply because they are devoted Catholics.

This…and put so concisely, too!

 

[LongingSoul]

I agree that friendship focused on the Catholic faith alone all the time is fine. It is enjoyable as well. However, such friendship should not be forced on another simply because they are devoted Catholics.

These posts are making me wonder if your new friend is perhaps a convert? I experienced a similar thing about 15 years ago when my daughter made a new friend in Gr. 1 with a little girl whose mum was a convert to Catholicism. She seemed to respect my Catholic faith and wanted to garner my approval of hers. It made me uncomfortable and esteemed in an unwarranted way. We are still friends on facebook but I’m a little cautious of her because of her seeming esteem of me. I’m so not worth that esteem (although I try to be a good Catholic). Perhaps your new friend would benefit from a Catholic focus group like the Knights or StVdeP or some other mens oriented mission, in order to live his devotion. Maybe you could suggest such groups to him.

 

[DakiniArtist]

Maybe she doesn’t have any other friends. Do you know what that’s like? It’s a terrible feeling. You’re already a reserved person who isn’t very social, and has interests that don’t jive with the majority of people you meet. You find someone who at least claims to have similar interests, so you strike up one of the only possible friendships you could have, get excited about the shared interest since the other person claims to be interested in it too. Assume that the other person values you as a friend like you do to them, apparently falsely. And then the “friend” just drops off the face of the earth and acts like they don’t know who you are when you try to contact them, because you’re not what they’re looking for in a friend. You never tried to take them away from their interests, since you focused on one of the few things you had in common around them, but apparently you’re supposed to abandon yours for theirs. It sucks. I guess it’s good to finally know what motivates people…

Yeah, I do know about loneliness. I used to be an absolute trainwreck.

I adore this lady and her kids. There is only so much I can take of her craziness. My husband had been asking me to end my friendship with her ages ago. I had overlooked things she had said about other moms in our parish and had gently reminded her that we’re all different and in different seasons. I loved talking about the Faith with her. When I tried to talk about anything about myself, she cut me off. She’s also been telling people in the parish I’m “not prolife” because I said I would take the morning after pill if I was raped. I’ll miss our talks, but mostly it’s a relief. I hate to say it. I was more than willing to be there for her, any time, at all. But when I set any boundaries with her she throws a tantrum. I’ve hung in there for years with her.

 

[mommy_k]

I don’'t think this is a well rounded friendship and I would take it for what it’s worth.

Over time, the lines cross to other things besides the initial common interests, sometimes not. In this case it just backtracked.

Everyone has friends that just share one interest in their lives–whether it’s a soccer mom friend, or a coworker friend, or a friend from church.

So set your expectation to that.

 

[balto]

Yeah, I do know about loneliness. I used to be an absolute trainwreck.

I adore this lady and her kids. There is only so much I can take of her craziness. My husband had been asking me to end my friendship with her ages ago. I had overlooked things she had said about other moms in our parish and had gently reminded her that we’re all different and in different seasons. I loved talking about the Faith with her. When I tried to talk about anything about myself, she cut me off. She’s also been telling people in the parish I’m “not prolife” because I said I would take the morning after pill if I was raped. I’ll miss our talks, but mostly it’s a relief. I hate to say it. I was more than willing to be there for her, any time, at all. But when I set any boundaries with her she throws a tantrum. I’ve hung in there for years with her.

Yeah, I know people like that too. I was too hasty and didn’t intend to cause offense, so please accept my apologies if offense was given. If this or something like it is what the OP is relating then he as of yet has not given us any reason to believe that this is what is happening. People are forgetting that there is the perspective his friend has as well. I’m glad that your life is on the up now!

 

[balto]

I think the difference of opinion here comes from those of us who have had this tactic tried on us and those who have not. Do any of you who think this is OK actually have any friends like this? Do you do this to anyone?

No, I don’t think I would tolerate such a person, and who here is defending behavior like the kind you describe? I’d be interested in knowing how you could come to the conclusion that the OP’s friend is like this based on a short Internet post. Perhaps we need the OP himself to clarify. Why is this scenario not valid:

OP: I quickly realized that he blocked me off from every aspect of his life other than religion. We can’t talk about work, family or much of anything else other than religion.

He is excited to share the Catholic faith with someone who claims to be devout. He always brings the conversation back to discussions of the faith, which the OP believes is an attempt to block out every other aspect of life. The friend does it because the faith is important to him and the OP claimed it was important to him too.

OP: He has no problem talking about last week’s homily, this week’s Gospel, whether to say the Fatima prayer while praying the Rosary, etc., but as soon as I bring up any of the stuff we used to talk about he shuts me down.

How is shutting down to be understood? Does he say “I don’t care about that, stop bringing it up” or does he display a lack of interest in it and always comes back to discussions of the faith?

OP: It’s also impossible to talk to him about any problems anymore since all he’s able to do is get a sour look on his face and lecture me on forgiveness.

A “sour” facial look is a subjective interpretation. The OP wants to discuss problems (look at some of his other threads) and the friend tells him he needs to learn to forgive. That is a Christian tenet no?

OP: I finally asked him about the change and he said that, since we’re Catholics, we need to have a Catholic [sic] friendship.

He wants a deeper level of intimacy on an important topic with the OP that they share. He can get the ordinary stuff from everyone else and so can the OP. The hostility towards non-Catholic topics is being assumed. Until more details are forthcoming, I don’t think you can say that he views other endeavors and the people that engage in them as inferior but merely thinks they ought to pursue higher ideals.

OP: All that other stuff–joking around, playing pool, talking about work, etc.–is for secular friends, not Catholic ones.

Did the friend say this, or is the OP providing interpretation? Assume he did say it. So what? He and the OP have a higher ideal in their Catholic faith and he believes they should pursue that. Aren’t they supposed to be helping each other grow in holiness? There seems to be this assumption that a friend is necessarily someone that you go out and socialize with and “have a good time” with and that’s the end of it. Perhaps he thinks it ought to be higher than that, I don’t know.

mommy k probably gave the best advice. If the OP still doesn’t like the friend’s behavior, then don’t hang out with him all the time. We don’t have any reason to believe he’s a bad person, and the OP can have a Catholic friend every once in a while when he does meet up with him.

 

[Allegra]

No. Your friend’s behavior is not normal. People should be able to have a multi-faceted friendship. However, he sounds better than most of your other friends you’ve mentioned. Definitely better than the couple to freaked out because your daughter was pretending to breastfeed her baby doll.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

He’s the husband of your wife’s friend.

You don’t have to be best friends. You can be cordial and patient and if that involves only talking about the Church (and in a good light) then fine.

Grin and bear it.

No one is perfect.

 

[DakiniArtist]

Yeah, I know people like that too. I was too hasty and didn’t intend to cause offense, so please accept my apologies if offense was given. If this or something like it is what the OP is relating then he as of yet has not given us any reason to believe that this is what is happening. People are forgetting that there is the perspective his friend has as well. I’m glad that your life is on the up now!

:hug1:
Thanks. Honestly, I’ll miss her. It was worth it to feel like I was somehow helping her, but I had to consider the lyrics of “The Gambler.” And she’s been trying to tarnish my rep at the parish! Eh, well…

Monicad,

Agreed.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I’ve been offline for a few days. Yes, I’ve tried talking to him about this. He either says that he doesn’t know what I mean or says the stuff about how we should have a Catholic friendship.

This is the most likely scenario: OP is friends with this guy through their wives like he said. The friend does not have too many Catholic friends, or at least none that are devout. He finds out that the OP is Catholic and is excited to share his faith with the OP. His faith is very important and he wants to grow in holiness since he has a unique interest with the OP that he doesn’t share with anyone else. Seriously, this is what most friendships are about, at least initially: a common shared interest. OP asks him why can’t they go back to talking about what they used to talk about, and the friend says something innocent along the lines of “well we’re both Catholics and the Catholic faith is important to us, so we should be discussing Catholic things.” OP tries to talk about other things, but the friend always brings it back to religion and OP interprets it as implied hostility, when the friend is thinking that we both are committed Catholics and this is good for both of us.

You’re mostly right up until the part about the friend always bringing it back to religion. We can’t get off on those other tangents because he won’t discuss them. With me it has to be all religion, all the time. If I ask about his kids, he responds with something about his priest, or the choir director, or St. Augustine, etc. I would personally love to have a really devout friend with whom I could discuss all that stuff, but also discuss things like my kids, work, what I watched on TV last night, etc. I’m even fine discussing all those things in a faith-based light as long as we can actually discuss those things and not have to stick entirely to religious conversations. To be clear, I hear more non-religious talk on Catholic Answers Live than I do from this friend.