Catholic Democrat and voting for pro-choice politicians

[LennyFL]

So this is my dilemma. I am a democrat and a pro-life Catholic. I also do not agree with homosexual marriage. Now my question is, is it a sin to vote for a democrat that happens to be prochoice. I do not agree with the republican agenda other then the marriage and the pro-life aspects. If I were to vote for a democrat who happens to be pro-choice but do not agree with it at all but I agree with their stance on almost everything else would this be counted as sin?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

What if instead of pro- choice your candidate was pro homicide of African american babies? Pro slavery? Pro Nazi? Or was in favor of forcing sodomy women inmates?

What do you side with more than the murder of babies? What kind of politics would you have to hold to say, murdering a baby is ok IF you are pro- anything else?

Question.

What on the republican side is so repugnant to you that homosexual marriage and the extermination of innocent babies before they can be baptized?

I could never vote pro choice no matter what.

 

[adawgj]

It probably depends on who the candidates are. From what it sounds like you (correct me if I’m wrong) you disagree with the Republican agenda on economic, foreign policy matters?

I’d say vote with what you want that candidate to do. I’d say a pro life candidate is better to vote for if that’s what you wish to have pushed the most.

 

[Sunflake9]

From what I remember listening to CAL if there is a candidate who is pro life and you choose to support a pro choice candidate then yes it would be a sin. We need to support candidates who value catholic values/teaching. The following is a quote from Tim Staples.

“Staples said when it comes to politics, Catholics must never vote for candidates who support the five non-negotiables because they go against the church’s core teachings about the sanctity of life and the value of the family to society.”
The five non-negotiables are abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, cloning and same-sex marriage.
Hope that helps.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Read about the non-negotiable political issues. Rather than thinking of yourself as a Democrat or Republican voter, it is much safer to think of yourself as a Catholic Christian voter. There are Democrat bosses and some Republican bosses today who are hostile to Christian ethics and it is our moral duty to resist them.

politicalresponsibility.com/voterguide.htm

stjoseph-marysville.org/faqnonnegotiables.html

host.madison.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/in-the-spirit-bishop-morlino-lists-non-negotiable-issues-for/article_8cb94448-26af-11e2-84d5-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[NeedsMercy]

If you vote for a pro-choice candidate because of his or her stand on abortion, that would be wrong. If you are voting for that candidate for other reasons, there is no problem. Don’t let anyone browbeat you into voting for something other than what YOUR conscience tells you. No one knows what is in your heart except you and the Lord.

 

[mountee]

Read about the non-negotiable political issues. Rather than thinking of yourself as a Democrat or Republican voter, it is much safer to think of yourself as a Catholic Christian voter. There are Democrat bosses and some Republican bosses today who are hostile to Christian ethics and it is our moral duty to resist them.

politicalresponsibility.com/voterguide.htm

stjoseph-marysville.org/faqnonnegotiables.html

host.madison.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/in-the-spirit-bishop-morlino-lists-non-negotiable-issues-for/article_8cb94448-26af-11e2-84d5-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

So this is my dilemma. I am a democrat and a pro-life Catholic. I also do not agree with homosexual marriage. Now my question is, is it a sin to vote for a democrat that happens to be prochoice. I do not agree with the republican agenda other then the marriage and the pro-life aspects. If I were to vote for a democrat who happens to be pro-choice but do not agree with it at all but I agree with their stance on almost everything else would this be counted as sin?

Is it a sin to call abortion ‘choice?’

Call it what it is. Re-naming it to hide its ugliness doesn’t change the ugly fact.

 

[Corki]

If you vote for a pro-choice candidate because of his or her stand on abortion, that would be wrong. **If you are voting for that candidate for other reasons, there is no problem. **

I wouldn’t say “there is no problem”. There may be less of a problem. It very much depends on the candidate, the overall legislative picture and the office he/she will hold. If the pro-abortion legislators are in a clear majority, as a voter, it’s different than a closely divided legislature where one or two pro-life legislators will mean life for many.

If the Republican contender was an advocate of some evil “agenda” such as re-instituting slavery or repealing child abuse laws one could vote for the candidate who will do the least amount of harm. But if the pro-life candidate simply has a different opinion on a matter of prudential judgement such as how much to raise taxes, that wouldn’t be enough to offset a pro-abortion candidate on the other side.

Don’t let anyone browbeat you into voting for something other than what YOUR conscience tells you.

True as long as your conscience is properly formed according to the teachings of the Church.

No one knows what is in your heart except you and the Lord.

And that is part of the equation. But when it comes to voting, or any other action, it’s what you do AND what is in your heart that makes something moral or immoral. Good intentions do not make up for bad actions.

 

[tomgosse]

The only party that I could vote for is one based on Catholic Social Teaching. Link: Christian Democracy.

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have a consistent pro-live policy. As my wife says, the Democrats want to kill you before you’re born and the Republicans want to kill you after you’re born.

I would add to the non-negotiable items: denying health care to the ill, opposing a living wage to workers, and racism.

And as a personal aside, I would take down all Ten Commandments plaques at courthouses and replace them with the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Corki]

I would add to the non-negotiable items: denying health care to the ill, opposing a living wage to workers, and racism.

And this is why conversation about “Democrat” and “Republican” have little merit. Neither party espouses the positions you list above. One party has as an actual plank in its platform to advance abortion. So, if you only go by label, it’s a no-brainer. But straight party voting is not using Catholic teaching in the process. It’s possible that you will find a Republican who wants one of those non-negotiables you list above. Fortunately, I have never been faced with a choice like that on a ballot. It’s** possible **too that you will find a Democrat who rejects the pro-abortion and pro-same sex marriage policies of the Democrat platform. I have seen a few of those on the ballot.

 

[TK421]

Abortion cannot be viewed as “one issue among many”. It does not equate to, for example, a feud among politicians as to how much school lunch caloric intakes should adhere to federal standards. The Catholic Church has been at odds with cultures of death for 2000 years. It defends life, and this is something that applies foremost to those who are most vulnerable, since historically, it has, without fail, always been these groups that are first on the chopping block in order to provide some sort of convenience or satisfaction to a stronger, less vulnerable demographic. We are not Canaanites. We are not Spartans. We are not Normans. We are not Nazis. We are not Soviets. We are Catholics. We defend the vulnerable. The lose of life through abortion, and the tremendously deadly subtle effect it has on the mind and soul of a society, is damningly severe.

However you choose to conduct yourself while participating in civil affairs, this is what you should be understanding. What your conscious tells you is irrelevant if it is not in conformity with such an understanding.

 

[Ender]

As my wife says, the Democrats want to kill you before you’re born and the Republicans want to kill you after you’re born.

The Democrat platform clearly supports the killing of the unborn, but I missed the part in the Republican platform identifying which people they want to kill.

I would add to the non-negotiable items: denying health care to the ill, opposing a living wage to workers, and racism.

You seem totally unprepared to accept that people support different solutions not because they support different outcomes but because they genuinely disagree on which approach is best. No one favors racism, that’s just absurd. Nor has anyone suggested health care should be denied to those who need it. As for the payment of a “living wage”, even the church doesn’t demand that (what she recognizes is that a living “wage” is actually a combination of wages and government support).

If you think of Republicans as Satan’s spawn it’s not surprising you wouldn’t be supportive of them, but if you accept them as merely misguided then they appear in an entirely different light.

Ender

 

[Listener]

What if instead of pro- choice your candidate was pro homicide of African american babies? Pro slavery? Pro Nazi? Or was in favor of forcing sodomy women inmates?

What do you side with more than the murder of babies? What kind of politics would you have to hold to say, murdering a baby is ok IF you are pro- anything else?

Question.

What on the republican side is so repugnant to you that homosexual marriage and the extermination of innocent babies before they can be baptized?

I could never vote pro choice no matter what.

Some people can’t vote for Republicans because they seem to be pro-homicide of babies who happen to live in Iraq or Afghanistan.

These people need to use their conscience to decide who to vote for, just as you use your own conscience to decide who to vote for.

Women have the power to decide whether or not to have abortions, whether it is legal or illegal. Politicians have the power to decide whether or not to kill people in other countries.

 

[kozlosap]

If you vote for a pro-choice candidate because of his or her stand on abortion, that would be wrong. If you are voting for that candidate for other reasons, there is no problem. Don’t let anyone browbeat you into voting for something other than what YOUR conscience tells you. No one knows what is in your heart except you and the Lord.

:thumbsup:BRAVO

 

[QuiteCatholic]

What’s more important than Life?

 

[QuiteCatholic]

Some people can’t vote for Republicans because they seem to be pro-homicide of babies who happen to live in Iraq or Afghanistan.

These people need to use their conscience to decide who to vote for, just as you use your own conscience to decide who to vote for.

Women have the power to decide whether or not to have abortions, whether it is legal or illegal. Politicians have the power to decide whether or not to kill people in other countries.

What do the babies have the power to decide? Oh right nothing because the Mother took it’s life.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

What’s more important than Life?

If that really were the question, the conclusion would be easy. But there is more to it than that. When voting for a candidate, it is rational to take into account the probability that the desired effect will be achieved. A trivial example is voting for an office that has nothing to do with abortion, like the local Commissioner Parks and Recreation. No matter what that candidate feels about abortion, no babies will be saved by voting for or against him.

Even in the case of legislators that might conceivably deal with the abortion issue, there can be reasons to believe that his election will have little to no chance of saving any lives. That could be due to the candidate’s lukewarm commitment to the issue, or it could be due to the realities of the current mix of other legislators.

When you factor in the probabilities for getting the desired outcome, you soon see that it is not simply a matter of “what’s more important than life”.

 

[QuiteCatholic]

If that really were the question, the conclusion would be easy. But there is more to it than that. When voting for a candidate, it is rational to take into account the probability that the desired effect will be achieved. A trivial example is voting for an office that has nothing to do with abortion, like the local Commissioner Parks and Recreation. No matter what that candidate feels about abortion, no babies will be saved by voting for or against him.

Even in the case of legislators that might conceivably deal with the abortion issue, there can be reasons to believe that his election will have little to no chance of saving any lives. That could be due to the candidate’s lukewarm commitment to the issue, or it could be due to the realities of the current mix of other legislators.

When you factor in the probabilities for getting the desired outcome, you soon see that it is not simply a matter of “what’s more important than life”.

To me it simply is.

 

[NeedsMercy]

I wouldn’t say “there is no problem”. There may be less of a problem. It very much depends on the candidate, the overall legislative picture and the office he/she will hold. If the pro-abortion legislators are in a clear majority, as a voter, it’s different than a closely divided legislature where one or two pro-life legislators will mean life for many.

If the Republican contender was an advocate of some evil “agenda” such as re-instituting slavery or repealing child abuse laws one could vote for the candidate who will do the least amount of harm. But if the pro-life candidate simply has a different opinion on a matter of prudential judgement such as how much to raise taxes, that wouldn’t be enough to offset a pro-abortion candidate on the other side…

You cannot measure another by your own yardstick. This is what YOUR conscience is telling you to do. LennyFL’s conscience may tell him differently.