Catholic Dissent

[Tick_Dawk]

I’m Catholic. However, I have been rather confused and rather saddened to see how much disagreement goes on here and how antagonistic it seems people get on these boards.

I asked this question here, because I wondered if everyone here thought the same, or whether I was missing something and some of my differing beliefs really caused everyone to get in such a tizzy. From what I’ve noticed in my short time on these boards is that there are some people who have different thoughts on things, but they’ll get yelled at or insulted with everyone telling them they’re wrong. I was also just wondering how many heretics the Catholic Church really has. I never thought that many, but apparently I was wrong.

 

[buffalo]

I’m Catholic. However, I have been rather confused and rather saddened to see how much disagreement goes on here and how antagonistic it seems people get on these boards.

I asked this question here, because I wondered if everyone here thought the same, or whether I was missing something and some of my differing beliefs really caused everyone to get in such a tizzy. From what I’ve noticed in my short time on these boards is that there are some people who have different thoughts on things, but they’ll get yelled at or insulted with everyone telling them they’re wrong. I was also just wondering how many heretics the Catholic Church really has. I never thought that many, but apparently I was wrong.

Poor Catechesis, secular and material pressures, modernism/liberalism, relativism, etc… all have contributed. Most through no fault of their own have been led astray. They come to the boards and state their opinion as fact. Soon they learn that the Church does not care much for opinion. It only cares about the truth.

The Mass as the source, summit and prime teacher has suffered with abuse and innovation. Preaching only 1/2 of the Gospel ( social justice) has left Catholics hungry for the truth. When they hear it they are offended because they are between a rock and a hard place as a result of prior poor choices and attachments.

 

[davidv]

Uh…okay. That’s very odd. Um…so, you excommunicate yourself, but you don’t know about it? So, theoretically, you wouldn’t be allowed to go to Mass and all that?

You are never prohibited from going to Mass. Any prohibition would be directed towards the reception of the sacraments (except Confession, of course). Anyone receiving communion in the state of mortal sin brings condemnation upon themselves.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Anyone who disagrees with any part of the Magisterium is by definition a heretic.

I disagree!

 

[buffalo]

I disagree!

Heretic

–noun 1.a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church. 2.Roman Catholic Church. a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith. 3.anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle. –adjective 4.heretical.
[Origin: 1300–50; ME *heretik < MF heretique < LL haereticus < Gk hairetikós able to choose (LGk: heretical), equiv. to hairet(ós) that may be taken (verbal adj. of haireǐn to choose) + -ikos -ichttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Synonyms 1. apostate, backslider, recreant, protestant. 3. dissenter, skeptic, freethinker.

 

[buffalo]

Heresy

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Now, from how I’ve seen it, there are a lot of people on here who say that the only way to be a true Catholic is to follow everything that the true Church teaches. However, I’ve noticed a lot of disagreeing (and not just between myself and others). Now, let me ask: does this mean that only a select few on these boards are true Catholics? I mean, I just don’t get how there can be disagreements that much if we should all follow the same doctrine.

We have disagreements because the Church is not a black and white construct. The people who make the Church are an infinite shade of grey when it comes to opinions. When you have black and white interpretations it gives one side complete power of interpretation and we all know our human weaknesses to power.

It is fine to debate, discuss, and move forward. Without that the Church will wither on the vine of stagnation.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I’m Catholic. However, I have been rather confused and rather saddened to see how much disagreement goes on here and how antagonistic it seems people get on these boards.

I asked this question here, because I wondered if everyone here thought the same, or whether I was missing something and some of my differing beliefs really caused everyone to get in such a tizzy. From what I’ve noticed in my short time on these boards is that there are some people who have different thoughts on things, but they’ll get yelled at or insulted with everyone telling them they’re wrong. I was also just wondering how many heretics the Catholic Church really has. I never thought that many, but apparently I was wrong.

I would not call them “heretics” at all. If you look at Church history, it has never been stagnant, but always fluid as the Church evolves through human history. “Heretics” is a term used to disassociate others, in this case the side who uses it assumes their interpretation is the only one, which in real life is unrealistic.

 

[buffalo]

I would not call them “heretics” at all. If you look at Church history, it has never been stagnant, but always fluid as the Church evolves through human history. “Heretics” is a term used to disassociate others, in this case the side who uses it assumes their interpretation is the only one, which in real life is unrealistic.

The Church has organically grown through the ages. It gets fuller and a fuller understanding.

Again, show me a doctrinal reversal.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I would not call them “heretics” at all. If you look at Church history, it has never been stagnant, but always fluid as the Church evolves through human history. “Heretics” is a term used to disassociate others, in this case the side who uses it assumes their interpretation is the only one, which in real life is unrealistic.

No, heritic is exactly as the definition given above.

You can’t change that for your own convenience.

Doctrine is not about interpretation. It’s about obedience.

 

[holdencaulfield]

I’m Catholic. However, I have been rather confused and rather saddened to see how much disagreement goes on here and how antagonistic it seems people get on these boards.

I asked this question here, because I wondered if everyone here thought the same, or whether I was missing something and some of my differing beliefs really caused everyone to get in such a tizzy. From what I’ve noticed in my short time on these boards is that there are some people who have different thoughts on things, but they’ll get yelled at or insulted with everyone telling them they’re wrong. I was also just wondering how many heretics the Catholic Church really has. I never thought that many, but apparently I was wrong.

The Church is full of heretics. Here are my rough estimates.

North America: 50%

South America: 10%

Western Europe: 30%

Eastern Europe: 15%

Asia: 10%

That’s just of the clergy however, not the people. I simply made these statistics up however I think that they are probably somewhat correct. Now I know everyone will yell at me, however let me explain why.

The United States and Quebec are filled with liberals and modernists, this is where you will get the worst heretics therefore.

South America is less modernized, therefore less heretics.

Eastern Europe like Poland has had about 50 years of communism so they have stayed strong to the faith and not changed.

The Philippines is also very traditional.

So yes I’m sorry sadly heresy is deeply rooted in the Church, the best we can do is teach are fellow Christians why they are wrong and hope that they change.

 

[holdencaulfield]

@iamrefreshed:

Yes good point. The Church is black and white on most things, you either are a heretic or you are not. You are either wrong or you are right.

@buffalo:

Yes good point. The Church’s doctrines have remained the same since 33 AD. There has never been a change in Church doctrine. The same beliefs we have now, were believed in 33 AD. To say otherwise is heresy.

 

[deb1]

I’m Catholic. However, I have been rather confused and rather saddened to see how much disagreement goes on here and how antagonistic it seems people get on these boards.

I asked this question here, because I wondered if everyone here thought the same, or whether I was missing something and some of my differing beliefs really caused everyone to get in such a tizzy. From what I’ve noticed in my short time on these boards is that there are some people who have different thoughts on things, but they’ll get yelled at or insulted with everyone telling them they’re wrong. I was also just wondering how many heretics the Catholic Church really has. I never thought that many, but apparently I was wrong.

There are many religions on this forum, just as there are many types of Catholics on this forum. Of course you are going to have a lot of bickering back and forth. This is one of the rare religious forums that allow suche varied viewpoints.

Go to some of the fundamentalist Protestant boards. Some of them are very, very rough on people with different beliefs.

Also, remember that people are sometimes giving their opinions on matters that they state as facts. So, don’t always believe that just because a Catholic tells you something that particular Catholic speaks for the Church. Its good to look it up yourself.

I haven’t seen your posts yet. Come over to sections on the forum like the back fence, it isn’t so argumentative.

 

[fhansen]

Now, from how I’ve seen it, there are a lot of people on here who say that the only way to be a true Catholic is to follow everything that the true Church teaches. However, I’ve noticed a lot of disagreeing (and not just between myself and others). Now, let me ask: does this mean that only a select few on these boards are true Catholics? I mean, I just don’t get how there can be disagreements that much if we should all follow the same doctrine.

It amazes me how divergent views of Catholics can be. We should at least agree on the essentials and I think the Church, herself, is responsible for us knowing what those essentials are and of enforcing them with all of us-clergy and laity. I do believe she’s gotten better at that recently. I think many wrong beliefs come from people trying to distinguish themselves by being holier than the crowd or from people who compromise their beliefs because they are unwilling to go against popular opinion. In either of those cases, pride is the culprit.

 

[neat62]

Real simple…we’re a church of sinners. We’re all true Catholics at different levels of conversion, thus explaining the disagreements we often have amongst each other. There is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church…but there are many forms of pride that distance one from Christ.

Those who disagree with the Doctrine of the Church, who violate the laws established by the Church, are essentially PROTESTANTS and if they are fully aware of the teaching and continue to turn their back on the teachings, making their “own” rules…they could be considered heretics…i.e., Martin Luther!

 

[Isaacsdad]

Those who disagree with the Doctrine of the Church, who violate the laws established by the Church, are essentially PROTESTANTS and if they are fully aware of the teaching and continue to turn their back on the teachings, making their “own” rules…they could be considered heretics…i.e., Martin Luther!

Wasn’t our religion founded by a guy who wasn’t real fond of rigid laws and rebelled against the religous establishment of his day?

 

[neat62]

Wasn’t our religion founded by a guy who wasn’t real fond of rigid laws and rebelled against the religous establishment of his day?

No, Jesus Christ was not a rebel…as He is the way, the TRUTH and the LIGHT…He is perfect in ALL things, including His obedience to His Father.

While those who were the “religious establishment” were not…they were the heretics of the time, denying God and making their own rules, in DEFIANCE of GOD!

We also know that the Catholic Church was not only established by Christ, He promised that nothing would destroy what He built…remember, He promised that the DOCTRINE of the Church would be guided by the Holy Spirit ALWAYS!

In other words, what He once declared to be True, will always remain True…and what He declared to be wrong, again, will always be wrong!

 

[fhansen]

Wasn’t our religion founded by a guy who wasn’t real fond of rigid laws and rebelled against the religous establishment of his day?

I think it’d be better put to say He knew the truth and stood up for it no matter what. He accepted whatever was right in what the religious leaders taught and made no bones about rejecting or correcting them where they were wrong. He also said He didn’t come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. If we believe that the truth He taught is our religion then doesn’t it become something we want to cherish and protect rather than rebel against? I mean, loving the truth doesn’t make one a legalist even if we do have some of those, too.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Wasn’t our religion founded by a guy who wasn’t real fond of rigid laws and rebelled against the religous establishment of his day?

That sounds vaguely heretical. Christ did not come to overturn the Law, yet to fulfill it.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matthew 5:17)

 

[rwoehmke]

Being a Catholic is in some ways no different than being a non-Catholic. Some read the CCC and the Bible and have differing opinions on what it all means. The difference lies in that Catholics accept the Pope’s decisions as the last word on things being contraverted and we don’t tend to stomp off to another church that agrees with our viewpoint. I guess it comes down to the fact that a faithful Catholic is willing to accept correction from those in authority and does not willfully and knowingly hold to what is in error. The key words being willfully and knowingly as stated in a definition given above by one of the posters. Contrary to estimates above I would estimate that the number of persons in the Catholic Church guilty of willfully and knowingly espousing error is reasonably small.