Catholic Divorce

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MamaCarnie

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I’ve been married for nearly five years, and it has been a rocky, rocky time. We were pregnant when we got married (whoever said it couldn’t happen after the first time), and I don’t think our relationship would have lasted if I hadn’t gotten pregnant. Although we had been dating 2 1/2 years when it happened when were on a downhill slope. We now have two more children.

My husband just doesn’t seem to want to be married or have a family. When he’s in a good mood he seems to tolerate us, and occasionally will actually be “happy” around us, but the majority of the time he is mad that we’re interrupting his T.V. watching, relaxing, etc. He has me on pins and needles all the time because he has made it clear since the beginning of our marriage that the house must be clean when he gets home, even though I have upto seven kids four and under here on a daily basis. He expects me to work to bring in a second income, which I do part-time in the evenings, but then he’s furious with me when I get home, because the baby cried. I feel as though I have bent over backwards for the last four years to make him happy, and the more unhappy he gets the more I cave into him.

I don’t know how to draw the line between enabling him to continue by my constantly giving in or being disrespectful by not adhering to the expectations he has of me and the kids.

As of this morning I’m so ready to pack my bags and head to a new city to start over. I just can’t see how I can continue to live a life where two people in a marriage love the same person any longer. Last night after staying up playing video games until 1am, he came into our bedroom (knowing I’m a light sleeper), and started watching adult cartoons. When I woke up and asked him to turn it off he was furious with me like I had done something wrong, and stormed downstairs in a huff.

I guess I’m looking for advice as to why he might be acting like this, what I can do, and what my grounds for divorce are in a situation like this.

Oh yeah, he used to be a devout Catholic, and has fallen away quite drastically in the last two years. He still goes to mass, but no other sacraments, and his participation in mass is minimal. I know writing this like you’re going to be asking what underlying issues there are… to be perfectly honest I don’t know what they are… I am completely at a loss.
 
hello! Welcome to the board…I am so sorry that you are going through all of this!

Have you talked to a priest? Have you looked into Retouville (sp?)…my spelling doesn’t look right but anyone at your parish would know what I mean if you asked them.

Please…try every option before you leave. Divorce really breaks apart Adults, but it shatters the children involved, and while broken can be fixed shattered is nearly impossible to mend. I am speaking from experience here…my husband left me when my children where 9mths. and 4yrs. old…they are 11 and 15, and I am still dealing with the fallout. It really hurts their self esteme, image of marriage in general, sense of humor (which children get from their fathers)…it goes on and on I can’t even explain all the areas it has affected my children

You will get a lot of advice here on these boards, and a lot of support. It sounds as if your husband is being emotionally abusive…I would definately offer up your suffering to God, and go talk to someone ASAP

God Bless your heart!

P.S…There is a thread about Retrouville just below this one.
 
Thanks Lilith,

I have never heard of Retrouville until this morning. I am in a small Canadian town, so I’m not sure where we would go. We have been to a marriage encounter, but our baby is only five months old, so I’m not sure how feasible it would be right now.

I do understand how hard it is on the kids, my husband’s parents divorced when he was seven, but I just feel so hopeless now. I really have a hard time seeing the point of staying here. I do know how devastated my oldest would be (he’s four), and that’s the one thing, other than financial dependence that keeps me here.
 
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MamaCarnie:
Thanks Lilith,

I have never heard of Retrouville until this morning. I am in a small Canadian town, so I’m not sure where we would go. We have been to a marriage encounter, but our baby is only five months old, so I’m not sure how feasible it would be right now.

I do understand how hard it is on the kids, my husband’s parents divorced when he was seven, but I just feel so hopeless now. I really have a hard time seeing the point of staying here. I do know how devastated my oldest would be (he’s four), and that’s the one thing, other than financial dependence that keeps me here.
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I am from a really small town…in the boondocks of southern Kentucky, and have access to Retrouville 😉

Speak to your priest and he’ll tell you the next date for the weekend. The program is available everywhere, and congratulations on your successful spelling BTW! It is a program for people on the verge of divorce, unlke the marriage encounter that you went to, which is for strengthening O.K. marriages.

Get more involved with your church…especially if your husband is withdrawling…at least he is still attending. I would pray the rosary with his face plastered in my mind every day 😃
 
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MamaCarnie:
As of this morning I’m so ready to pack my bags and head to a new city to start over. I just can’t see how I can continue to live a life where two people in a marriage love the same person any longer.

I guess I’m looking for advice as to why he might be acting like this, what I can do, and what my grounds for divorce are in a situation like this.
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You need to seek the help of a professional on this.

One thing to keep in mind. You will not get to pack up and start over. You have kids. You have kids with this person that you are considering running from to start over. He will have a right to spend time with your children. Moving will not help them in most cases even if you end up separating from your spouse. Moving may actually hurt the children.

I would not encourage separating. However, it is not always the case that more damage is done by separating. I was formerly a family lawyer and have seen numerous cases where the children were very negatively affected by the interactions of the parents in the marriage. In these cases, the kids often did better after a separation or divorce then they did while the parents were together. Assuming the parents interacted well post divorce or separation. This however tends to be the exception not the rule. You should assume that if you separate from your spouse it will have a negative impact on the kids.

I can tell you that I am divorced and have a child. My child is better post divorce than he was while my former spouse and I were together. However, as unhappy as I was for many years in my marriage, I did not separate from my spouse or even seriously consider it until I saw the impact it was having on my child. He was so negatively impacted by the continuation of the relationship that I could no longer put him through that. Again it is the exception not the rule that children do better. The general rule is true. Kids do worse post separation or divorce.

You really need to talk to someone about this other than on these forums. Please seek counseling from someone specializing in marriage and family therapy and preferably from someone with a Catholic perspective.
 
You can’t make your husband change. However, you can change yourself.
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MamaCarnie:
and the more unhappy he gets the more I cave into him.
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Your post in general, and this part in particular, make me think that you need to build up your self-worth and self-esteem. It’s wrong for your husband to treat you this way, but it is also wrong for you to allow yourself to be treated this way.

Counseling might help, but the best thing would be for you to surround yourself with people, adults, friends, etc., who value you as a person and who would stick up for you. Unfortunately, your situation doesn’t seem to allow you any opportunity for this. Perhaps that it is part of the reason your husband insists upon those conditions?

I wish you the best in your trials.
 
It sounds to me like he is trying to force you to get a divorce. He may have someone on the side and could be squirreling money away in preparation for leaving himself. Men often do who act the way he is acting. My sister went through the same thing with her husband–the mental and verbal abuse and the selfishness and all. So, I know something of what you are going through with him.

You need to have a good, long talk with him. You need to tell him that if he isn’t happy in your marriage then he ought to leave for a time and sort himself out, but that you will no longer sit still for his attitude and his abuse. Be prepared for a lot of defense whining and blaming of you for all his misery, but don’t let him get away with it. Don’t shout or get anger, but be firm with him.

Is it possible for you to get his mother or his father on your side in all this? Would they be willing to talk to him? Would he be willing to talk to your priest? In any case, no matter what you decide to do, don’t take his attitude lying down, it only makes him despise you and confirm in his mind that he has the right to abuse you. God bless you and all the best to you and your family.
 
His whole family is on my side, but he just thinks the world is out to get him.

I do understand the need for counselling, but I’m really not sure where to go. We live in a tiny little town, and have to drive at least two hours for any major ammenities. Has anyone tried the telecounseling from Gregory Popcak?

I have never considered myself to be someone who lacks self-esteem, as such. I am definately a people pleaser though, I try very hard to make those around me happy, at all costs. I think that’s why I’m so frustrated… is that the person with whom I try the hardest, is the most impossible to please.

I think he knows I’m stuck, I’m financially dependent upon him, I take the confidentiality of our marriage very seriously, so leaving would be really tough, especially living in a town of 300 people. Our parish is small (the majority of it is my family-- mom, dad, brother and his family, and close family friends). I wouldn’t call it a church that embraces the teachings of the Church.
 
Well…it sounds like you have access to emotional support…that is a really good thing!
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MamaCarnie:
I wouldn’t call it a church that embraces the teachings of the Church.
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Could you elaborate on this? Do you think the Church your going to would encourage divorce?
 
I would say the majority of the people would be scandalized by a divorce, but not because of the teachings of the church necessarily, but just because of a couple from that church falling apart. There are a few families who are strong families, NFPers, etc. However, the majority of the parish (I mean there’s only 30 people who regularly attend) are from the post Vatican II generation who still believe the Church is too strict, etc. I don’t necessarily think they’d encourage a divorce, but none of them would know where to send us for help with our marriage. I wouldn’t even feel comfortable bringing the topic up with anyone, to be perfectly honest.
 
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MamaCarnie:
I do understand the need for counselling, but I’m really not sure where to go. We live in a tiny little town, and have to drive at least two hours for any major ammenities.
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It is certainly not going to be easy for you. The question is: Is it worth it to you to drive a couple of hours to get counselling in an effort to save your marriage?

Ask yourself this: How many times have I driven a couple of hours to go shopping, or go to the movies, or go out to eat at a nice place? Isn’t it worth a driving a couple of hours to save a marrige? Or at least try to save it?

I just think the above are things you need to think about before you give up on trying. I have been where you are. I know the how attractive it seems to be just to give up and get it over with. Please think about it, pray about it and get some help. If you just give up and do not make the effort to try to fix it you may regret it or question it for the rest of your life. I am in no way trying to suggest that you have not tried up to now. Please do not take it that way. I am sure you have tried very very hard!! Just be as sure as you can before you do anything.

You are in my prayers.
 
I also have to agree with a prior poster. He may be trying to get you to divorce him. Men often to do not like to be seen as leaving their wife. If he forces you in to feeling that you have to file for divorce then he will feel better about himself. After all he did not divorce you, you divorced him. It sounds silly but I saw it a lot in my prior practice. I am also a man and can verify that men do often think this way even if they do not realize they do. It is something about being a provider or something. It is just there in some men. They feel like a failure if they file so they try to get the wife to file. This does not show he has anyone on the side or anything like that. It is just how some men will act.
 
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MamaCarnie:
I wouldn’t even feel comfortable bringing the topic up with anyone, to be perfectly honest.
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I know it’s embarassing…but you’ll have to talk to someone or you’ll go mad! A sister, sis-in-law, the priest which is your best bet for confidentiality…broach the subject as if it were confession (the open type…make an appointment) The priest can not say a word to anyone…

I live in a really small parish too, and it takes me an hour to get anywhere. It is difficult I know. But…you have plenty of family to watch your babies…make an appointment today.
 
Just curious…why did you marry this man in the first place if you knew the relationship was “on a downhill slope?” Why since the marriage and further deterioration of his behaviour have you continued to have children with this man?

I am not saying this to judge you, but these are questions which you *should *be asking yourself. You have put yourself in a position where you have very limited options. Perhaps your first step should be getting some individual counseling to examine why you would marry into and then tolerate such an abusive relationship, then follow up that mistake by making choices which have in effect left you trapped in it. Otherwise, even leaving offers no real escape if you repeat the same pattern all over again.
 
MamaCarnie,

I-- a child of divorce-- am the last person in the world to advocate for it. Except in the circumstances of abuse. And, I believe your situation is abusive and damaging to both you and the children. I think your husband has one or more psychological problems.

If he will not go to counseling, if he will not change, then I would get out for the safety of you and the children. Although he is not physically abusive-- yet-- he is emotionally abusive and is damaging you and your children day-by-day. Especially if he merely “tolerates” his children when they are on best behavior.

First attempt counseling, and then get a lawyer. I do not say this lightly for I truly believe in the Sacrament of Marriage. I do not, however, think that he was capable of making a sacramental marriage, and your pregnancy at the time of the marriage impacted free consent on both parts.
 
I tried posting earlier, but it came back if this shows up twice… ignore one.

What person in a bad relationship gets married knowing it will be a bad relationship. If people had the ability to see the future there would be a lot less of these. When we were dating it wasn’t like this at all. I only remember two fights in two and a half years! Before we got married he moved for school, and we were long distance dating. I didn’t know a lot of the stuff happening and issues coming to the surface until after we were married. Looking back I can see the warning signs and the downhill slope, but for goodness sake I was twenty years old and in love.

I still don’t know how I could have avoided this relationship, other than not getting married. At the time I was twenty, pregnant, and scared and I saw no other options.

Why have I continued to have children with this man? Well that’s the beauty of NFP isn’t it? I wouldn’t trade any of these three darlings for anything in the world, and at least with them around I know something good has come out of this relationship. They are also the reason I am still here fighting and clawning my way back up that down hill slope.
 
Well, I am the last person who would be able to offer advice on this, because you just described my home life to a “T”. I’m at 16 years of marriage and 4 kids though. I’ll pray for you.
 
MamaCarnie

I just want to reiterate what a prior poster said about having someone on your side to talk to. You seem isolated. Having a good friend is a tremendous blessing. Just be a good friend in return and the relationship will provide you with a great deal of strength.

You should also talk to your parish priest a.s.a.p. about the entire problem in the Confessional. Just unloading this burden with the grace from the sacraments will help a great deal.

Lastly, I’d confront him. You owe yourself, your children and your husband honest answers about the state of your marriage. Maybe your priest could meet with both of you while your children are being taken care of by someone else? Holding your pain and sorrow inside is hurting you too. Your husband needs to accept responsibility for how he has hurt you. If his family is on your side, can you enlist their aid in confronting him?
 
I had a friend once who I would confide in and when he found out felt totally betrayed, and like I was blabbing our marriage woes to the world, so I stopped then.

I have confronted him and it always gets better for a day or two, then goes back to the same.

HOWEVER, I have not talked to my priest about it. I will be sure to do that, and see what advice he can offer. Again, I feel so guilty when he knows my DH too that I am somehow betraying him in telling someone what goes on.
 
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MamaCarnie:
I had a friend once who I would confide in and when he found out felt totally betrayed, and like I was blabbing our marriage woes to the world, so I stopped then.
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This shows that your husband knows that his actions aren’t acceptable. If he really thought what he was doing is okay, he wouldn’t be embarrassed to have other people know about it.
 
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