Catholic dogma and the Oriental Tradition

[Mickey]

I don’t see anything from these quotes that remotely indicate a “complete genealogical purification.”

Fr Lev did.

 

[Mickey]

He is just one of many witnesses to the teaching of the IC

He did not believe in an IC teaching–and you have never been able to prove such a thing.

It’s just that he’s the only one that any EO here have felt compelled to claim did not believe in the teaching of the IC.

We claim that he believed no such doctrine because he believed no such doctrine.

Further, it should be expected that the Latins should depend on the Eastern witness, since the Latin CC inherited the teaching from the Easterns.

They surely did not inherit the 19th century IC belief from the East. Pius IX would have been best served to ignore the ultramontanists and refrain from any innovations.

 

[Ite_ad_Ioseph]

Can somebody assist me with information on how Rousseau brought about a rebirth of Pelagian ideals? I’ve never thought of that before, but it sounds like it makes sense.

Brother Mark, it is so good to see your posts again. It’s been a long while since I’ve been on this forum. I hope you’ve been well and that I hear from you soon

Joseph

 

[Vico]

Can somebody assist me with information on how Rousseau brought about a rebirth of Pelagian ideals? I’ve never thought of that before, but it sounds like it makes sense.

Brother Mark, it is so good to see your posts again. It’s been a long while since I’ve been on this forum. I hope you’ve been well and that I hear from you soon

Joseph

Voltaire was intolerant of institutionalized churches. Voltaire and Rousseau attacked the Church thinking that human reason replaces grace (Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism). Even though having belief in the Supreme Being Voltaire based beliefs on the order and rationality of the world and Rousseau denounced creeds other than natural religion based on feeling and beliefs brought to a rational test.Let us therefore seek honestly after truth; let us yield nothing to the claims of birth, to the authority of parents and pastors, but let us summon to the bar of conscience and of reason all that they have taught us from our childhood. In vain do they exclaim, ‘Submit your reason;’ a deceiver might say as much; I must have reasons for submitting my reason. – Rousseau

celestiallands.org/library/rousseau.htm

And Vatican I had to counter this trend of Modernism.

 

[Vico]

Seems like they cannot make up their minds.

Some of the Byzantine tradition will celebrate this feast on Dec 8 and others on Dec 9. It depends upon the location in USA or Europe.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Seems like they cannot make up their minds.

Mickey - so glad you’re back!

BTW - looks like we Byzantines finally made up our minds on this occasion to restore the Orthodox expression of the feast, both in title and theme. However, in the U.S., the feast of the Maternity of Holy Anna is celebrated on 12/8, in solidarity with Roman Catholics, given that Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception was declared Patroness of the United States in 1847 by Pope Pius IX.

 

[gus]

Of course not.

I would say that the the Church Fathers never proposed such a doctrine as set forth by Pius IX in the 19th century. I cannot understand why Rome felt the need to do this.

Most Roman Catholics think that the IC refers to Jesus Christ’s conception and/or birth.

Please don’t speak for Most Roman Catholics.
Unless you have facts to support your claims.
It makes you sound like my Jehovah witness friend who in conversation make unsubstaniated claims against the Church.
You should be above hyperbole