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JPhoenix75
Guest
I got that book on my wish list in Amazon. I will buy it.
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mercygate
Guest
Do you commute in a car? I have the book on tape (kinda pricey).
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JPhoenix75
Guest
Public transportation. I need to renew my license. hehehehe.
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LtTony
Guest
"i really think you need to hang out here a bit more before you go headlong into fairly deep discussions. spend a month or two on this site…"
JP: RyanL and Deus Vult offer excellent advice. Excellent advice. At one time I was kinda in the same position you find yourself in. Over the years, mostly through just Scripture, I have dismissed pretty much all of the claims you list. Further research and resources like this one cemented the deal. As indicated here, none of the issues are new, and only the self-centered and misguided still cleave to them.
Just take your time; one issue at a time. The truth will be revealed to you in due course. You have the Church of Christ watching your back, taking care of you. Don’t feel like you have to definitely reply to each allegation (they are lies) at this moment; you don’t have to reply at all, in fact. If you are supposed to reply, you will. I know it feels awkward to “take it.” But this is how one grows in faith, I believe.
Jim
(OK, I admit, sometimes I’ve HAD to say SOMETHING, owning an ego and all. So I would say, “You know that church in Rome that’s mentioned in the Bible (Romans)? Well, I’m a member of that community. And the Lord says in the Bible he would NEVER abandon his Church. So I guess I’ll draw my faith from that.”)
(And I’ve also noticed with these anti-Catholic types, that they zero in on the Roman Church. Not realizing there are 250 million Orthodox, and millions more in Byzantine Catholic, Maronite Catholic, etc., all rooted in the earliest Christian communities, who believe very, very similar to us – generally speaking. This person you speak of is not pro-Christian, but anti-Catholic/Ortho./Coptic Christian/etc. That’s the fundies’ problem: they have ZERO perspective. Sorry for the rant.)
JP: RyanL and Deus Vult offer excellent advice. Excellent advice. At one time I was kinda in the same position you find yourself in. Over the years, mostly through just Scripture, I have dismissed pretty much all of the claims you list. Further research and resources like this one cemented the deal. As indicated here, none of the issues are new, and only the self-centered and misguided still cleave to them.
Just take your time; one issue at a time. The truth will be revealed to you in due course. You have the Church of Christ watching your back, taking care of you. Don’t feel like you have to definitely reply to each allegation (they are lies) at this moment; you don’t have to reply at all, in fact. If you are supposed to reply, you will. I know it feels awkward to “take it.” But this is how one grows in faith, I believe.
Jim
(OK, I admit, sometimes I’ve HAD to say SOMETHING, owning an ego and all. So I would say, “You know that church in Rome that’s mentioned in the Bible (Romans)? Well, I’m a member of that community. And the Lord says in the Bible he would NEVER abandon his Church. So I guess I’ll draw my faith from that.”)
(And I’ve also noticed with these anti-Catholic types, that they zero in on the Roman Church. Not realizing there are 250 million Orthodox, and millions more in Byzantine Catholic, Maronite Catholic, etc., all rooted in the earliest Christian communities, who believe very, very similar to us – generally speaking. This person you speak of is not pro-Christian, but anti-Catholic/Ortho./Coptic Christian/etc. That’s the fundies’ problem: they have ZERO perspective. Sorry for the rant.)
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Ignatius
Guest
This is a completely ludicrous fabrication. These are just made up. If I am incorrect, please provide bona fide, verifiable, unbiased sources for this information.
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RobbyS
Guest
The usefulness of a common language ought to be obvious even to bigots. Look at the good consequences of English as the common language of the United States. One disadvantage to worship in the vernacular is the tendency towards national churches, which has not been beneficial for eastern Orthodoxy, not to speak of the Church of England. It leads toward subservience of church to state.
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rwoehmke
Guest
Whether we likeit or not some of these dates and statements have at least a shred of truth in that it was at these times that some Catholic belief that had been held by the Church for a long time and perhaps even have been treated by earlier Councils and/proclamations was further explained, made explicit, or reiterated. It is obvious that they author is a bigot. The Donation of Constantine has long been proven to be a Canard and Baptizing bells, gimme a break! This guy does not understand that with Scripture and Tradition there are things that occur in Tradition that do not occur in Scripture but which do not in any way contradict Scripture. Scripturte is just silent on the matter. The date for the change in the wafer is likely near the time that Thomas Aquinas explained how bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ using Classic Greek philosophical concepts. The change had been believed in and taking place since the Last Supper. The list reads like something Mr. Chick would have written. It is insulting and the words of a bigot. The guy deserves a punch in the snozz and not an answer. He wouldn’t understand the latter anyway.
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Ignatius
Guest
No they don’t. First of all, the Catholic Church gave these guys the New Testament. The Bible was written by Catholics for Catholics. The problem is their erroneous understanding of a Catholic Document, the Bible. Nothing in Catholic Teaching contradicts the Bible.
God Bless.
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RyanL
Guest
Deus Vult:
thank you! i really can’t take much credit, however, as i simply borrowed things others have written (and it only took me about 10 minutes). you get fairly adept at searching the main site after a while…i wish they would update their search engine (HINT HINT).
joey,
don’t get me wrong - keep it up! if you maintain your passion, your ripples will cause waves for the kingdom of God! a saint (i forget which) said, “zeal without knowledge is fire without light!” get the karl keating book, post haste! it was his book that really brought me back to the faith! i can’t recommend it highly enough. oh, and make sure to read the bible, daily. learn scripture, use your catechism, and PRAY THE ROSARY!!
may God bless you and keep you,
RyanL
deus vult,
thank you! i really can’t take much credit, however, as i simply borrowed things others have written (and it only took me about 10 minutes). you get fairly adept at searching the main site after a while…i wish they would update their search engine (HINT HINT).
joey,
don’t get me wrong - keep it up! if you maintain your passion, your ripples will cause waves for the kingdom of God! a saint (i forget which) said, “zeal without knowledge is fire without light!” get the karl keating book, post haste! it was his book that really brought me back to the faith! i can’t recommend it highly enough. oh, and make sure to read the bible, daily. learn scripture, use your catechism, and PRAY THE ROSARY!!
may God bless you and keep you,
RyanL
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Exporter
Guest
Lorraine Boettner all over again.
Ignore this tripe. It was written by a professional Anti-Catholic. Go to the preeminate Catholic Apologist Karl Keating for further info.
Ignore this tripe. It was written by a professional Anti-Catholic. Go to the preeminate Catholic Apologist Karl Keating for further info.
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adstrinity
Guest
HEY! Don’t lump ALL of us fans together just because THIS ONE GUY gives love a bad name!!!
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Malachi4U
Guest
Ask this Protestant poster to prove how any of this goes against Scripture? He calims it but does not back it up.
Claiming is one thing, proving is another. His post has NO proof.
Claiming is one thing, proving is another. His post has NO proof.
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Vox_Borealis
Guest
The Donation of Constantine is a document that purports to be part of Constantine’s will and that grants to the pope all the lands under Constantine’s power. This was an important document used to justify papal secular authority in the middle ages, but it has been proved a forgery of the the eigth or ninth century–the church admits to this: newadvent.org/cathen/05118a.htm.
In 1870 the pope did lose the last vestages of his once wide-ranging secular power, when Rome was added to unified Italy. Italy had been unified [in 1860 I believe] except for Rome, which remained under papal authority until the city was siezed. From 1870 until the 1929 the pope remained a “prisoner of the Vatican” until the Lateran Accords normaized relations. These accords created the Vatican City and once again established the Pope as a secular ruler, albeit with his secular power greatly reduced.
Both of these deal with the temporal authority excercised by the papcy over the centuries, especially in its most extreme form in the middle ages. Both references are highly garbled, especially the latter. By 1870 the pope had already lost much of his secular authority, as the Papal States covered only art of central Italy. But, the pope has since regained some secular power, so the list itself is factually wrong. More importantly, whether or not the pope exercises temporal power has basically nothing to do with catholic dogma.
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BobCatholic
Guest
Who declared that Catholic Dogma is against the scriptures?
Sounds like a MAGISTERIUM. Violation of sola scriptura.
Boettner’s list was debunked many times. This poster on another forum must believe he was infallible. Another violation of sola scriptura.
Sounds like a MAGISTERIUM. Violation of sola scriptura.
Boettner’s list was debunked many times. This poster on another forum must believe he was infallible. Another violation of sola scriptura.
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jimmy
Guest
hahaha, I am sorry, but it seems like he has taken some bad medicine! Dead or alive, this timeline is pretty weak.
I am sorry about lumping all you guys together.
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gusano
Guest
through
***1950 – Assumption of Mary" ***
THESE ARE ALL AGAINST THE BIBLES TEACHINGS "
Rather than silencing every dog that barks…
I would spend my time contemplating how I would
(A)…offer my body as a living sacrifice to God Rom.12:1
(B)…Lose my life for Christ’s sake and for the Gospel’s sake . Mat.16:25
(C)…pray that God would make me a qualified minister of the new covenant. 2Cor.3:6
(D)…Pray that God would open the eyes of my heart so I could see and experience His power available at the Altar.
(E)…Learn how to be led by the Holy Spirit… Rom.8:14
and allow the dogs to bark all they want.
in love, of course
gusano
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RyanL
Guest
Vox Borealis:
where did you get this info?!? did you take a class? is there a special set of apologetics books that i need to keep up with you?? i don’t consider myself a dumb guy (i’m a formally trained nuclear engineer, computer scientist, and shortly: attorney), but i’m constantly humbled by knowledge like yours and many others here!! how can i catch up fastest?
grateful to have you on our side,
RyanL
vox,
where did you get this info?!? did you take a class? is there a special set of apologetics books that i need to keep up with you?? i don’t consider myself a dumb guy (i’m a formally trained nuclear engineer, computer scientist, and shortly: attorney), but i’m constantly humbled by knowledge like yours and many others here!! how can i catch up fastest?
grateful to have you on our side,
RyanL
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mercygate
Guest
You could start with a popular speed-read: **Triumph; The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church: A 2,000-Year History
**By: H. W. Crocker III. It’s breezy and glib but covers all the bases. Then you could dig into more substantial meat.
I thought everybody in the world knew about the Donation of Constantine, and of how Lorenzo Valla in the 15th Century proved it to be a forgery. That was one of the triumphs of Renaissance thought – as was the acceptance of his conclusions by the Church.
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RyanL
Guest
thank you for the recommendation - i’ll check it out next time i’m at the bookstore!
as for the rest…you have to understand that while i was baptized catholic, i wasn’t brought up in a very orthodox household - more or less “holiday catholics”. when i went to college, i went to RCIA and was confirmed - but i was VERY poorly catechised. my priest taught me to believe things like “hell is empty” and “follow your heart when it comes to sin”. i didn’t know better, so i accepted what he taught me as catholic doctrine and i never thought to go to the ccc. i was taught many of the things which catholics believe, but i was given next to no foundation as to why we believe what we do. it wasn’t until after i married a faithful baptist that i really had to investigate my faith and really read my bible. God knew what He was doing when He brought the two of us together - i have now stopped being “lukewarm”, am fully faithful to the teachings of the church, and i don’t think i would have been if it weren’t for her strong faith and her questions. we’re still discussing…pray for us.
RyanL
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mercygate
Guest
O Boy! Are you in for some wonderful times! You have a Catechism, of course. I just sprang for the 48 CD teaching on it, *The Teaching of Jesus Christ, *by Fr. John Corapi (fathercorapi.com/search.aspx) – What a great resource for someone just exploring the faith. I got it at a Corapi mission, so it was $50 off retail (the price is $245, $225 for tapes). OK that’s a lot of money but it’s less than taking your family for a day at Disney World. Where I live, it’s dinner and wine for four at a good restaurant. Definitely worth the outlay.
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