Catholic Dogma - Is it Codified? or Collected in some way?

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StevenFrancis

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Hi:

I THINK I know what Dogma is. In the terms of our Church, it is that which is irreducable, or axiomatic, and unchangeable, correct? I have always thought based on my formation that the Dogma was promulgated in a variety of different ways, but that most, if not all, of what the Church has declared dogma was to be found in the Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), papal encyclicals and Canon law. Let me see if I can put the question correctly.

I am having a debate with a fellow in another thread. He continually refers to Catholic Dogma, as one would refer to a unifed text like the Catechism. Though he doesn’t use line or verse numbers or anything, he does use quotation marks on some things, as if they were being quoted from “the Dogma”. He says that these statements he’s making are Dogma, and are not open to interpretation. If that is correct, then that is fine. I have no problem with that at all. I’d love to know that we have a book or a document of this type in our Church. It would sure simplily apologetics.

“If you’ll look at page 400, paragraph 12 of the Dogma, you’ll see that x = x in all circumstances. Period”. Argument over.

I have not yet come across such a document. When I ask for his written source, he can not or will not give me a reference book I can look at. It make debate very frustrating. When I bring up a reference to support my position from the CCC, or the Bible, or a papal encyclical, etc., I DO give my reference to my opponent, but it is unsatisfactory. Only the Dogma will do. The rest of these official Church documents that we have are apparently just pablum for us intellectually challenged folk. Since this guy will not answer me, or give me written sources, I’m asking you, the general Catholic population, who may have been around a while, and are not involved with this argument.

Is there a book, or a codified publication of some kind called “The Catholic Dogmas” or something to that effect? Where do I find it? How, and in what ways, does this document trump or invalidate the Catechism and the Holy Bible? Why is it not a common publication? Wouldn’t it be of supreme importance to those of us who came through RCIA to have had as a resource? I want to be on solid ground as I intend to write Catholic theological essays and books for the layity. I am called to do so. It’s important to know all my references. I don’t want to be saying something wrong that was derived from incomplete sources. Where would a person quote Dogma from?

Is it possible that my debate opponent is just being obtuse? If that’s the case, I’ll simply decline to continue our dialog. If there is really such a document, I wish to research it to determine how many other of my interpretations of Catholic doctrine are half baked. It would be the most valuable resource in the world. Any guidance is appreciated.
 
This link refers to the Ott book, which is GREAT!

But—is there a more recent collection of dogmas?

Maybe a Vatican website?

And—if it were so cut-and-dry theologically that all we had to do is look it up in Ott, how can so many seminaries teach such way out stuff? Is Ott not respectable anymore?
 
buffalo said:
Will this help?
Click to expand...
This is terrific help for my general knowledge. I shall refer to this often for a variety of dealings. And at least it’s a listing. There is a lot of reference to D Fide which is apparently a key document. I am looking for source documents. I’ve found many useful things at the Vatican website as well. However, as to the specific situation I find myself in, regarding a dialog on salvation and grace with a member of this forum, I am led to the conclusion that this person is being intentionally obstinate for whatever reason he has determined necessary, and perhaps the greater confusion of what constitutes Dogma, and more precisely what the purpose of Dogma might be, lies with my correspondent rather than with myself.

Thank you so much for this resource.
 
StevenFrancis said:
Hi:

I THINK I know what Dogma is. In the terms of our Church, it is that which is irreducable, or axiomatic, and unchangeable, correct? I have always thought based on my formation that the Dogma was promulgated in a variety of different ways, but that most, if not all, of what the Church has declared dogma was to be found in the Bible, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), papal encyclicals and Canon law. Let me see if I can put the question correctly.

I am having a debate with a fellow in another thread. He continually refers to Catholic Dogma, as one would refer to a unifed text like the Catechism. Though he doesn’t use line or verse numbers or anything, he does use quotation marks on some things, as if they were being quoted from “the Dogma”. He says that these statements he’s making are Dogma, and are not open to interpretation. If that is correct, then that is fine. I have no problem with that at all. I’d love to know that we have a book or a document of this type in our Church. It would sure simplily apologetics.

“If you’ll look at page 400, paragraph 12 of the Dogma, you’ll see that x = x in all circumstances. Period”. Argument over.

I have not yet come across such a document. When I ask for his written source, he can not or will not give me a reference book I can look at. It make debate very frustrating. When I bring up a reference to support my position from the CCC, or the Bible, or a papal encyclical, etc., I DO give my reference to my opponent, but it is unsatisfactory. Only the Dogma will do. The rest of these official Church documents that we have are apparently just pablum for us intellectually challenged folk. Since this guy will not answer me, or give me written sources, I’m asking you, the general Catholic population, who may have been around a while, and are not involved with this argument.

Is there a book, or a codified publication of some kind called “The Catholic Dogmas” or something to that effect? Where do I find it? How, and in what ways, does this document trump or invalidate the Catechism and the Holy Bible? Why is it not a common publication? Wouldn’t it be of supreme importance to those of us who came through RCIA to have had as a resource? I want to be on solid ground as I intend to write Catholic theological essays and books for the layity. I am called to do so. It’s important to know all my references. I don’t want to be saying something wrong that was derived from incomplete sources. Where would a person quote Dogma from?

Is it possible that my debate opponent is just being obtuse? If that’s the case, I’ll simply decline to continue our dialog. If there is really such a document, I wish to research it to determine how many other of my interpretations of Catholic doctrine are half baked. It would be the most valuable resource in the world. Any guidance is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Catholic dogma is not codified. If you want a good summary of it with scriptural and historical back-up, try “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Ludwig Ott, Ph. D. The publisher is TAN.
 
scriabin said:
This link refers to the Ott book, which is GREAT!

But—is there a more recent collection of dogmas?

Maybe a Vatican website?

And—if it were so cut-and-dry theologically that all we had to do is look it up in Ott, how can so many seminaries teach such way out stuff? Is Ott not respectable anymore?
Click to expand...
Scriabin, no new dogmas have been defined since Ott’s book, so it is perfectly up-to-date. (Vatican II was a pastoral council which defined no dogmas–that was not its purpose–so there is nothing in Ott’s book that needs to be brought up-to-date). I use Ott a lot and his book is a handy reference. Also I have heard Denziger’s “Sources of Catholic Dogma” is another one though I haven’t used it myself.
 
The Ott book is fine. Thank you all. I’m just a little surprised and disappointed that the Church, (and I’m a faithful Catholic before people get bent out of shape), wouldn’t have a book by Augustine or Aquinas or even by St. Paul or St. John that is something on the order of “Unchangable Truths of The Way” or the “Dogmas of Christ’s Church”. It’s a little strange to me. Looking back over my RCIA, I only remember Dogma being briefly defined, and then discussed a couple of times. I’ve been kind of thinking that he CCC contained all the Dogmas. Anyway, this was very educational, and very important in my future theological dialogs, and evangelical pursuits.
 
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