Catholic duty to oppose relativism

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We hear the greatest threat to the church is relativism. Does the church teach that the faithful should just pray in the closet and watch the God-haters take over? We see now that 94% of the Fortune 500 now offer domestic partner benefits.

I don’t see anything current that exorts Catholics to oppose corporate diversity programs even to the point of termination. What does it really mean that “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”, “I am not ashamed” (of the gospel) or to join Daniel and his three partners in refusing to bow down to the orders to worship the idols? If Christians don’t have the duty to take a stand, how can society be reformed?
 
Well, it could all hinge on what you mean by “oppose.”

Quit your job? Do you have another one to go to? Have you been required to do anything that crosses the line of live and let live? Remember: If Catholics were to all withdraw from the world (which we are not free to do), where would be the witness to the truth?

And I think that’s the point. One of the best ways to oppose relativism is to stand witness to the truth, indeed, to the very existence of truth. One can never be sure what effect one person standing firm will have on a situation. Many in an office may be all excited about so-and-so’s upcoming gay “wedding,” for example. But the Catholic does not have to sign the card, contribute to the gift, go to the lunch or party, or attend the wedding just because it seems to be the thing to do. Standing that kind of witness is harder even than just exiting the situation.

However, if one is indeed pressed to do something that crosses the line, one has to act, and if needs be, leave.

I once got an email at my desk informing me that it was my duty, as an employee, to at least attend, and better, participate in, the then-upcoming annual gay pride parade. (I work for an agency of the Government of Canada.) I confirmed that the local Director had authorized the email, and laid a complaint of religious persecution against him. The verdict was that no, there hadn’t been persecution, but there was an abject apology given to me, and nothing like that has ever come over the email since. What if I’d have just fled?

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Perhaps your discussion would benefit from a definition of “relativism”? Since you mentioned “domestic partner” benefits, it might be valuable for you to tell us how the church defines our appropriate response to corporate policies such as these.
 
phoenix02 said:
We hear the greatest threat to the church is relativism. Does the church teach that the faithful should just pray in the closet and watch the God-haters take over? We see now that 94% of the Fortune 500 now offer domestic partner benefits.

I don’t see anything current that exorts Catholics to oppose corporate diversity programs even to the point of termination. What does it really mean that “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord”, “I am not ashamed” (of the gospel) or to join Daniel and his three partners in refusing to bow down to the orders to worship the idols? If Christians don’t have the duty to take a stand, how can society be reformed?
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Good question. Good answer by Gerry.

Oppose to what degree? I write to corporations urging them to not provide “domestic partner” benefits with some regularity. Sometimes, I decide to shop elsewhere.

Chances are, society will not be reformed on this and a number of other issues important to us Christians. But we still have to fight the good fight. Getting one’s self fired doesn’t seem like a very effective technique to me, but if it’s a matter of conscience, that may be the way to go for some.
 
Termination does not mean quitting. Nothing in the gospel calls Christians to quit society, company, institution, etc. Termination means being fired for standing for the truth. So if standing for the truth is our duty, where does the church teach such? The reality is that almost nobody visibly opposes relativism, humanism, and anti-God policies in public. The list of those fired from companies for standing against the homosexual agenda is narrow and usually only one person is listed from each company. I find it hard to believe that only one Christian worked at Kodak, Allstate, etc and that one Christian was fired after speaking up. The reality is that even very holy Christians don’t admit that they have any duty to take a stand for truth. They appear willfully ignorant of the issues out of fear of losing their jobs. Therefore, it’s one more instance of most Christians appearing no different than their pagan counterparts.
 
phoenix02 said:
Termination does not mean quitting. Nothing in the gospel calls Christians to quit society, company, institution, etc. Termination means being fired for standing for the truth. So if standing for the truth is our duty, where does the church teach such? The reality is that almost nobody visibly opposes relativism, humanism, and anti-God policies in public. The list of those fired from companies for standing against the homosexual agenda is narrow and usually only one person is listed from each company. I find it hard to believe that only one Christian worked at Kodak, Allstate, etc and that one Christian was fired after speaking up. The reality is that even very holy Christians don’t admit that they have any duty to take a stand for truth. They appear willfully ignorant of the issues out of fear of losing their jobs. Therefore, it’s one more instance of most Christians appearing no different than their pagan counterparts.
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I wonder to what degree it’s a matter, for some, of not understanding what’s happening in the society around them. 🤷

I wonder also if it’s a matter of picking one’s battles. Could it be that keeping silent, for example, when one knows they will likely get canned for speaking out on this particular issue, is actually better in that the person might be in a position to witness in a different manner to his or her fellow employees? 🤷

I guess it’s a matter of conscience and prayerful consideration, and I share your frustration in the matter. Owning my own business, it’ll never be a problem for me. :tsktsk:
 
Newbie2 said:
I wonder to what degree it’s a matter, for some, of not understanding what’s happening in the society around them. 🤷
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Additionally, no one is really clairvoyant about what goes on around them. We can only deal with what comes into sight, as it were. Even if we try to avoid remaining in ignorance, the big picture can, in some circumstances, be hard to come by.
Newbie2 said:
I wonder also if it’s a matter of picking one’s battles. Could it be that keeping silent, for example, when one knows they will likely get canned for speaking out on this particular issue, is actually better in that the person might be in a position to witness in a different manner to his or her fellow employees? 🤷
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Sometimes keeping silent can be very loud indeed. If everyone else is all gung ho over something, remaining silent and apart from it can be a very strong message.

And taking action or a stand is not synonymous with doing something futile. If they want you to contribute to that charity that passes money to Planned Parenthood, just say no. They really have no right to an explanation, but some may ask, and therein may be an opportunity.
Newbie2 said:
I guess it’s a matter of conscience and prayerful consideration, and I share your frustration in the matter. Owning my own business, it’ll never be a problem for me. :tsktsk:
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Conscience and prayer – two very important ingredients.

May you be strengthened in your resolve. Even business owners can be pressured.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
With ENDA, business owners will be forced to hire homosexuals. It also will nullify holding any employees to standards of morality.

With so many ostrich Christians around, the homosexuals have increased their DPB from 3% to 51% in the Fortune 500 in just six years. They are giddy about the social vacuum left for them to reform society.
 
Hi,

You’re new here. Welcome. If you read the Bible, you will learn that things need to be understood thororoughly, that the right words and/or actions need to be taken at the right time, and that prayers for guidance need to be made.

A reading of history will show that such times as we are experiencing now have happened before. To get some perspective, I suggest you pick up some Catholic newspapers and magazines. Look at what the Catholic League is saying and doing.

Our first duty is to live as Christ commanded. Next, we are to prayerfully consider our own circumstances and ask God for guidance. Some people have their hands full now, others may be in a position to do more. Finally, we must eliminate sources of temptation and avoid occasions for sin.

We can engage the world by simply not invlving ourselves in sinful practices, by praying at abortion clinics and by voting in a way that affirms our beliefs.

God bless,
Ed
 
phoenix02 said:
Termination does not mean quitting. Nothing in the gospel calls Christians to quit society, company, institution, etc. Termination means being fired for standing for the truth. So if standing for the truth is our duty, where does the church teach such? The reality is that almost nobody visibly opposes relativism, humanism, and anti-God policies in public. The list of those fired from companies for standing against the homosexual agenda is narrow and usually only one person is listed from each company. I find it hard to believe that only one Christian worked at Kodak, Allstate, etc and that one Christian was fired after speaking up. The reality is that even very holy Christians don’t admit that they have any duty to take a stand for truth. They appear willfully ignorant of the issues out of fear of losing their jobs. Therefore, it’s one more instance of most Christians appearing no different than their pagan counterparts.
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Remember, though, that we are not to seek out opportunities to become martyrs. 😉

What I mean is that one must take into account one’s other Christian duties. For example, if one has a family to feed, that has to be at the top of one’s list. A little less obvious would be one’s mortgage or car payments – these may seem trivial compared to taking a moral stand, but one has nonetheless entered into an agreement to pay for one’s house and/or car, and would be remiss to put oneself in a situation in which that would be impossible.

Then there’s the even less obvious issues: works of charity and mercy; contributing to the Church and to those less fortunate; providing witness to one’s coworkers; etc.

Peace,
Dante
 
phoenix02 said:
So much for the church militant. God help us. Mt 7:13-14
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I saw a satircal article on The Onion after 9/11, in which Osama bin Laden was quoted as saying (I’m paraphrasing):

“Once we’ve all martyred ourselves, you will have nobody left to kill – and we will have won!”

Your logic is sort of reminding me of that…

If all Christians lined up to become martyrs – figuratively or literally – who would be left to teach? To have and raise children? To spread the good news by example and word?

We are not all called to heroic sacrifice. Some are called to live utterly forgettable lives – but there is grace in that, if it’s God’s will.

Peace,
Dante
 
“utterly forgetable”? I would prefer to think of it as a quiet witness that does not boast of himself, and does not seek attention.

God bless,
Ed
 
The homosexuals who have advanced the rights of their special interest group against 25:1 odds didn’t consider their efforts and risks to be martyrdom. Your reluctance to acknowledge that Christianity means picking up the cross and following Jesus - to Calvary appears to be common cowardice. And of course, that is one of the signs of the unsaved.

God says 365 times in the bible - do not fear. If the Catholic “Be Not Afraid” is more to your liking, use it, but repent of passing on weakness and apathy. It’s unbecoming to anyone who claims to be following the Lord Jesus Christ. 👍
 
phoenix02 said:
The homosexuals who have advanced the rights of their special interest group against 25:1 odds didn’t consider their efforts and risks to be martyrdom. Your reluctance to acknowledge that Christianity means picking up the cross and following Jesus - to Calvary appears to be common cowardice. And of course, that is one of the signs of the unsaved.

God says 365 times in the bible - do not fear. If the Catholic “Be Not Afraid” is more to your liking, use it, but repent of passing on weakness and apathy. It’s unbecoming to anyone who claims to be following the Lord Jesus Christ. 👍
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Wow, thanks for the unvarnished disrespect! 👍

I never said anything about fear – I said that some people are not called to make heroic sacrifices. By “called”, I mean by God, you know.

If you want to go running into the lion’s den without discerning as best as you can whether you, personally are called to that sacrifice, be my guest – but I’d advise you to seek God’s will, not your own.

Peace,
Dante
 
Here is how to do it:

First educate yourself so that you understand the debate and can counter it.

Educate your friends, families and peers as often as possible.

Find your politicians (even local ones) positions and let them know in no uncertain terms how you feel.

Write opinion pieces to insert into local newspapers.

Challenge your politicians positions. Make them answer.

If you can afford it take out local ads.

The only way they win is for good men to do nothing.

The key is to educate as often as you can one person at a time.
 
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