Catholic Explanation of Salvation and Joining the Church?

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Seashellie said:
Lover of truth you are not correct that only Catholics are Christians. I grew up in a Protestant household. A very devout Protestant household. My Mother is still the most devout person I’ve ever met. We observed Lent, as well as Advent. I was baptized as an infant. I know my Mother knew the importance of Mary. She read the Bible every night, my father taught Sunday school. So you see, even though they didn’t have the fullness of faith, they most definitely were Christians. The day I told my Mother I was converting to become Catholic, she was thrilled. They were definitely not anti-Catholic. Since converting three decades ago, I love my church more than ever. My parents are gone now, but I have no doubt they are resting with our merciful Lord.
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Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Papal Bull Cantate Domino 1441 EX CATHEDRA

“It [The Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

without faith, it is impossible to please God.
 
Lover_of_truth said:
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Papal Bull Cantate Domino 1441 EX CATHEDRA

“It [The Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

without faith, it is impossible to please God.
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So, if I’m understanding you correctly, you believe that someone who has never heard of Jesus Christ or his Church is destined for hellfire? Or a Protestant 500 years after the Reformation (or any time before, really) who does not know that the Catholic Church is the true church of Christ?
 
Lover_of_truth said:
yes. That is what Saint Francis Xavier believed.
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While it’s true that all salvation flows from the Church, that’s not quite how it works.

If someone, through no fault of their own, never hears about Christ and His Church during their lifetime, and tries to obey whatever god they believe in, then they can be saved. After all, how can we expect someone to be a good faithful Catholic if they’ve never even had the chance to learn about God? You can find out more about this in the Catechism. CCC 843 would interest you, and the exact teaching on the doctrine of Outside the Church there is no salvation is in CCC 846 to 848.
 
God can sometimes give a good-willed pagan or heretic a divine message through an angel or even a bilocated saint.
 
One of the popes was asked when a child was able to receive Holy Communion. Must have been a family member.

He showed the child a consecrated Host.

He asked the child who is this. [or what is this]

The child said “Jesus”.

The pope said, he is ready.

Someone here I am sure may know the actual story and the name of the pope.

Karl Keating has written an outstanding book that goes into some detail:

shop.catholic.com/what-catholics-really-believe.html

ignatius.com/Products/WCRB-P/what-catholics-really-believe.aspx

What Catholics Really Believe
52 Answers to Common Misconceptions About the Faith
 
auctoris said:
Some of the Marian dogmas as well as others are not necessarily universal to orthodox Christians in all faith traditions (like Orthodox and Protestant). Here’s the list of all 255.

In any case, does the Church teach that someone cannot become a Christian if they don’t accept all of the dogmas or that they just can’t join the Church if they don’t accept all the dogmas?

In other words, are non-believers told if they don’t believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, then they cannot become a Christian? Or are they told they can become a Christian but they can’t join the Church?

Thank you
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auctoris:

This thread is valuable in explaining the perpetual virginity of our Blessed Mother:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1006183&highlight=perpetual+virginity+of+Mary
 
My simple explanation to other Christians or non believers in general as to why they should convert or what it means to convert is equating Catholicism to a very long movie seen in HDTV as opposed to other Christian branches which are standard definition with only about 1/3 of the movie’s content available.

If we are right and salvation is a process, then becoming Catholic and listening to the Church will reap incredible benefits on his or her soul. A protestant who is “saved” theoretically could avoid many years(just a hypothetical) in purgatory if he or she becomes Catholic and allows mother Church to nurture them and guide them closer to our Lord.

Pax
 
Lover_of_truth said:
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Papal Bull Cantate Domino 1441 EX CATHEDRA

“It [The Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

without faith, it is impossible to please God.
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Loveroftruth, you mention in other threads that you have been exposed to online outfits like Most Holy Family Monastery. These people are not representative of the Magisterium. Please follow the advice you have gotten in those threads and do.not.take those sources at face value without double-checking with a Magisterial source like the Catechism.

Even if you take a strict line on “No salvation outside the Church,” Catholics do not believe that “Christians” and “the saved” are coterminous categories. A validly baptized non-Catholic (or a validly baptized Catholic, even the Pope ) can.still be headed for Hell, where that baptismal mark will forever be a sign of shame.
 
Except the Catholic Church has declared ex cathedra that heretics go to hell.
 
Lover_of_truth said:
Except the Catholic Church has declared ex cathedra that heretics go to hell.
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She has also expressed doubt that present-day Protestants that have grown up in their respective traditions can be charged with the sin of heresy.

And again, we are talking about who counts as a Christian, not about anyone’s eternal destination. The Church also teaches (since long before Cantate Domino) that the baptisms performed by heretical groups are valid, and a member of such a group who decides to become a Catholic therefore does not need to (and cannot) be baptized “again.”
 
Lover_of_truth said:
Except the Catholic Church has declared ex cathedra that heretics go to hell.
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She has also expressed doubt that present-day Protestants that have grown up in their respective traditions can be charged with the sin of heresy.

And again, we are talking about who counts as a Christian, not about anyone’s eternal destination. The Church also teaches (since long before Cantate Domino) that the baptisms performed by heretical groups are valid, and a member of such a group who decides to become a Catholic therefore does not need to (and cannot) be baptized “again.”
 
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, it seems it is harder for a non-believer to be received in the Catholic Church that it is for them to be received in the Protestant church. It doesn’t mean Protestants are correct. But the simplicity of Protestantism can be appealing to many non-believers.

Since I started my journey towards Catholicism after a lifetime of being a Protestant, I call Catholicism “advanced Christianity”. There is more to it–more substance. At the same time, its advanced nature can be daunting for those with no religious or Biblical background non-believers. Since there was recently a push in the Church to focus on evangelism, it would be interesting to see how the process could be simplified without losing content.

These are just my ramblings on how to get more people into the Catholic Church.
 
If anything, just know your ability to become Catholic is not dependent upon memorization of everything, even if everything does not make sense now.
 
auctoris said:
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, it seems it is harder for a non-believer to be received in the Catholic Church that it is for them to be received in the Protestant church. It doesn’t mean Protestants are correct. But the simplicity of Protestantism can be appealing to many non-believers.

Since I started my journey towards Catholicism after a lifetime of being a Protestant, I call Catholicism “advanced Christianity”. There is more to it–more substance. At the same time, its advanced nature can be daunting for those with no religious or Biblical background non-believers. Since there was recently a push in the Church to focus on evangelism, it would be interesting to see how the process could be simplified without losing content.

These are just my ramblings on how to get more people into the Catholic Church.
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Making things seem easier than they are is not advised.

Mt 7:13-14 said:
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
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Lk 14:27-29:
For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
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