Catholic Fanaticism?

[ocuinn]

Has anyone here ever had to deal with Catholic fanaticism? I mean those people who are obsessed with promoting the idea that demons and spirits exist and that they are possessing us at every opportunity. I am having trouble with one of those people right now. They constantly speak about people being posessed. rather than seeking a psychological explanation for a persons trouble they are quick to skip to the supernatural explanation.

They can also use this language to manipulate situations with friends and relations in that they warn of demons and spirits attacking. It can make you afraid to do something out of the ordinary for fear of being accused of being possessed kind of like Carrie’ mother in the Stephen King movie “Carrie”.

Does anyone have any advice on dealing with people like this or is there any literature available?

Other things they tend to do is collect relics and prayer cards excessively. The person I am dealing with would have ulterir motives regarding the relationships of others and so would manipulate the situation accordingly while at the same time acting humble and meek. It is quite disturbing. I have lost a little sleep over this

I keep thinking how it compares to the mind games of the Jehovahs Witnesses and the scientologists but in this case I can’t get away from it.

Catholic Fanaticism? Is it a problem in the church? Any comments and help would be appreciated.

AP Quinn

 

[YinYangMom]

How interesting.
What about this person’s behavior associates it with Catholicism?
From what you describe this person seems like someone who believes in heaven and hell but also some of the occult. If the person is a baptized Catholic then I would think this person is just a fanatic, lost and struggling and certainly needs some prayer and guidance.
But to take this person’s behavior/beliefs and categorize it as Catholic seems a stretch, unless this person became this way from a Catholic church group or something.

I’ve met several Christians and even non-practicing Catholics who honestly believe they can manipulate the outcome of events and view everything in terms of damnation/salvation. They seem to have dabbled in the occult without acknowledging it as being a bad thing, more about availing themselves of all means, not limiting themselves to only Catholic devotions and such. I’ve yet to be able to reason with them or get them to even consider what they are doing is risky or dangerous. I’m interested to see if anyone else has managed to reach people like the one you describe. Thanks for raising the issue.

 

[st_julie]

It could be a mental problem. I have seen such an obsession in nursing career.

 

[1ke]

Has anyone here ever had to deal with Catholic fanaticism? I mean those people who are obsessed with promoting the idea that demons and spirits exist and that they are possessing us at every opportunity. I am having trouble with one of those people right now. They constantly speak about people being posessed. rather than seeking a psychological explanation for a persons trouble they are quick to skip to the supernatural explanation.

Perhaps it is not the one who is quick to conclude the existence of a supernatural component but rather the one who is quick to deny it.

Demons and evil spirits do exist-- this is a doctrine of the Church. Rationalism seeks to explain everything at a natural level, and Rationalism is a heresy.

The supernatural world does exist, demons do have some level of power and influence in this world, and possession is a real phenomenon.

Is it the source of all troubles? No. Is it likely more prevalent than “modern” men assume? Yes. And, to the detriment of those who could benefit from spiritual assistance.

The truth is somewhere in between the two extremes.

They can also use this language to manipulate situations with friends and relations in that they warn of demons and spirits attacking. It can make you afraid to do something out of the ordinary for fear of being accused of being possessed kind of like Carrie’ mother in the Stephen King movie “Carrie”.

Well, now you are assigning motives to this person. No one here can speak to those, not knowing the person in question, and whether or not your assessment is accurate. Perhaps their motive is not manipulation but rather concern.

It is clear you have some objection to their actions. But, that’s a personal matter.

Does anyone have any advice on dealing with people like this or is there any literature available?

You can read up on what the Church teaches on demonology.

Other things they tend to do is collect relics and prayer cards excessively.

Define excessively.

The person I am dealing with would have ulterir motives regarding the relationships of others and so would manipulate the situation accordingly while at the same time acting humble and meek. It is quite disturbing. I have lost a little sleep over this

And you know their motivation, how? You know they are merely “acting” humble and meek, how?

I keep thinking how it compares to the mind games of the Jehovahs Witnesses and the scientologists but in this case I can’t get away from it.

This really sounds like a personal issue, perhaps you should talk to your priest.

Catholic Fanaticism?

Define “fanaticism”.

 

[Tomster]

ocuinn,

While not personally knowing the situation of the people you are in contact with, I cannot speak to that, it sounds to me like this a very difficult situation you are encountering. You have my prayers! Scrupulosity MAY be at the bottom of their behavior, I do not know.

However, keeping YOUR spiritual balance is of primary concern. You have stated you are experiencing some sleep deprivation over this. You must address this. Perhaps some time before the Blessed Sacrament is in order. Many a night I have awoken in front of our Eucharistic Lord after falling asleep. The Lord understands. The daily Rosary is powerful too.

As far as Catholic Fanaticism is concerned I understand what you are saying and am familiar with it. However, you must keep a balanced understanding of all of this and what the Church actually teaches on the subject.

On the whole, it is more in conformity with Catholic tradition to consider the Christian, with his glorious spiritual armor, as being formidable to the devils rather than living in fear and terror of those beings of darkness. “Give not place to the devil” (Ephesians 4:27) is an apostolic precept which reveals the true psychology of diabolical temptatations in our spiritual life. Place is given to the devil through any voluntary deflection from the moral order; the evil spirit enters into our life through those weaknesses of which we are ALL guilty through our own carelessness.

Seek out a good spiritual director and lay EVERYTHING out to him. This can become dangerous for you and right now it seems that you could use some one on one with a good and holy priest who is skilled in these matters.

In the meantime, you are on my prayer list. As a baptised Christian, claim the peace of Christ for yourself and those troubled people you are in contact with. He has given to you as we speak!

May the peace of Almighty God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit descend on you and remain with you all the days of your life.

Tomster

 

[gmarie21]

Have met a few people as you have described (I always seem to attract those who have a need to try to pound their Catholic beliefs - the same beliefs I have, mind you - down my throat at Catholic speaker events or after mass, etc.). I have seen the same people at different churches (I sometimes go to other masses in the Chicagoland area that are more orthodox NO masses besides the orthodox NO mass at my parish) and they seem to forget that they have already talked to me about the same topic before. I do think about heaven daily, I do know the realities of the battle between good and evil that exists and I have no doubt about all the demons in the world and what they do since I’ve seen what they can do to people - myself included. Then I stop and think that maybe they are reminding themselves more than me or that they are truly over scrupulous. Sometimes one must just avoid the person b/c no matter how delicately you try to switch conversation or just politely excuse yourself they don’t get the hint or they take offense.

Good luck and I totally understand where you’re coming from.

 

[LumenGentium]

Has anyone here ever had to deal with Catholic fanaticism? I mean those people who are obsessed with promoting the idea that demons and spirits exist and that they are possessing us at every opportunity. I am having trouble with one of those people right now. They constantly speak about people being posessed. rather than seeking a psychological explanation for a persons trouble they are quick to skip to the supernatural explanation.

They can also use this language to manipulate situations with friends and relations in that they warn of demons and spirits attacking. It can make you afraid to do something out of the ordinary for fear of being accused of being possessed kind of like Carrie’ mother in the Stephen King movie “Carrie”.

Does anyone have any advice on dealing with people like this or is there any literature available?

Other things they tend to do is collect relics and prayer cards excessively. The person I am dealing with would have ulterir motives regarding the relationships of others and so would manipulate the situation accordingly while at the same time acting humble and meek. It is quite disturbing. I have lost a little sleep over this

I keep thinking how it compares to the mind games of the Jehovahs Witnesses and the scientologists but in this case I can’t get away from it.

Catholic Fanaticism? Is it a problem in the church? Any comments and help would be appreciated.

AP Quinn

i have only met one woman like this who was obsessed with these kinds of things. I think it was just her. I think she was scrupulous. The pastor tried to discourage her from giving out her little handouts. i think she was obsessed with purgatory as i recall, but i understand what you are saying. to me, she was a fanatic. off balance. ie it was something about her and nothing else.

Also there are some charismatics who get a little carried away with the idea of spiritual attack. it is possible the person you are referring to is charismatic but highly unlikely. I think the person you are referring to is disturbed psychologically and doesn’t want to accept it so blames it on the devil.

also it could be that she is involved with groups that focus on marian apparitions that are supposedly going on today. ie bayside, some woman in conyers, georgia; the one’s in scottsdale were banned, just so you know. but i knew a lot of people who got involved with these groups and eventually started their own ministry…i don’t think they were valid to be honest.

also there are a number of traditionalists, sspx’ers that fit the definition of fanatics. they aren’t healthy, think their way is the only way, think your soul is in danger if you go to novus ordo, think novus ordo priests are sinful, get psycho about the particles of the eucharist that you can’t even see. these are worry worts to the extreme. they have a psychological problem and should not be taken seriously, ie believed.

you should tell your pastor about the person who is bugging you because its actually harassment if she insists on bringing it up at every opportunity she sees you. people who have obsessive compulsive disorders or are perfectionists tend to be abusive to others in their nagging whining and complaints. its harassment. they go to novus ordo masses to stalk and harass the priest and the parishioners supposedly to look for abuses of the liturgy. the truth is that these traditionalists are actually the abusive ones.

 

[LordHaveMercy]

I think it should be clear that, a Baptised Christian who takes their baptism seriously has nothing to worry about from evil spirits. They’ve been clothed by the Holy Spirit and that is all they need.

Evil Spirits have the power you give them over you, and to fear them is to empower them. While some groups (Assemblies of God, some Baptists groups, etc.) go to Church and preach salvation based on being “saved” from evil spirits and “the lake of fire,” typical Christians live a Christian life to please God, and with that goal in mind, the “powers” evil spirits have are useless.

Think of the movie “The Wizard of Oz” when the good witch says to the bad witch, “Be gone, your powers are no good here.”

 

[ocuinn]

I think it should be clear that, a Baptised Christian who takes their baptism seriously has nothing to worry about from evil spirits. They’ve been clothed by the Holy Spirit and that is all they need.

Evil Spirits have the power you give them over you, and to fear them is to empower them. While some groups (Assemblies of God, some Baptists groups, etc.) go to Church and preach salvation based on being “saved” from evil spirits and “the lake of fire,” typical Christians live a Christian life to please God, and with that goal in mind, the “powers” evil spirits have are useless.

Think of the movie “The Wizard of Oz” when the good witch says to the bad witch, “Be gone, your powers are no good here.”

It would great to be able to find an article that says this plainly! It is true that I try to find a rational explanation for everything but I believe that to be the position of the Catholic church aswell - first look for the natural and after exhausting those possibleities consider the supernatural so I don’t believe my ways are heretical.

I have been trained in Counselling Psychology and I believe the vast majority of emotional and psychological disturbances have a natural explanation based on the psyche rather than on any supernatural explanation.

the woman in question is my future mother in law who attributes all the terrible atrocities and illnesses within her family circle as being linked to demons and the devil because of some kind of curse on the family. She claims all her children have experienced the demons yet my financee denies this is true. I find it very hard to belive that the devil is at work at all seeing as in all my years of living I have never experienced nor have I met anyone who has experienced an encounter with demons or even the supernatural. It seems a little too coincidental that so many within her family have according to her. I can’t accept it!

She also expamds her stories to include details which are either fabricated or embellished. It is almost as if she likes the idea that the family is battling with the forces of darkness.

Don’t get me wrong she is very devout in that she attends Mass evrery opportunity and receives the sacraments regularly and prays the rosary frequently. however this kind of talk about demons can only have one effect and that is to place fear in the individual hearing this type of thing. That person then dwells on what she says (and this is happening to me) which causes them to worry, fear and lose sleep and in extreme cases this fear can lead to the imagination running wild where the individual may even believe they have seen or heard things associated with demons.

This is the danger of talking like that especially in front of children who would be very sensitive to those topics. As weel as this a person in the family can’t have an emotional problem without being labelled possessed and an untrained person may even begin to believe they are possessed.

How do you deal with a person like this who stubbornly belives they are right and won’t change. I would hesitate to allow my future kids to be in the presence of someone like this. i understand she may need a little psychological help but then that won’t come unless the person admits they have a problem or untyil something bad happens and I don’t think either of those options are a possibility.

So what? Is there any literature out there discussing this phenomenon?

thanks

AP Quinn

 

[1ke]

I think it should be clear that, a Baptised Christian who takes their baptism seriously has nothing to worry about from evil spirits. They’ve been clothed by the Holy Spirit and that is all they need.

This is NOT Catholic teaching at all. Our baptism does indeed give us Sanctifying Grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. However, that does not make one immune to spiritual attacks. Nor does it make them “nothing to worry about”.

In fact, the holier one becomes the more one may be the target of attack. That is attested to by the numerous Saints and Blessed in our Church who have been the target of attacks, for example St. John Vianney.

Spiritual warfare is quite real.

That does not mean one need have excessive fear, but one should not discount the reality of spirtual attack.

 

[LumenGentium]

oc

perhaps you can ask a priest about a book to help you with this issue. i know there is one but i can’t remember what it is called. also there is one that is not valid. i did research on the net after i watched the emily rose story.

it is possible that this mother in law was a teenager when the movie the exorcist came on and was deeply affected by it. also there was a mass hysteria with satan in the 60’s. perhaps because of charles manson murders and there were a lot of songs made about him during that time. if she grew up during this time it would have affected her…but she most likely already had a predisposition to being scrupulous and these events all coming at the same time period pushed her over the edge. at that timeframe…late 60’s early 70’s there was mass hysteria about the devil. a pope, maybe paul vi, made a sarcastic response about the smoke of satan and people took that to mean satan really was in the church when the pope was really just being facetious ie namecalling insulting someone. this was about the time the emily rose case hit the news because a case for sainthood had been made for her due to her death. or maybe it was the court case in the 70’s…i can’t remember.

i believe the exorcist and the emily rose story are the same case but i can’t remember. after watching the emily rose one, i decided she wasn’t attacked by satan but that her community abused and killed her, ie trying to beat the devil out of her. she was from germany and that is where calvin and luther’s ideas about total depravity are very strong…poltergeist is a german word. there was a film made called poltergeist in the 70’s.

calvinists do have an evil disposition and mindframe because of their beliefs about humanity and god. and catholics who live in that part of the world do unintentionally pick up some of the strains of their beliefs or style of worship…the calvinistic theology also is incorporated into political systems and philosophies. it is very dangerous.

i wouldn’t want her near my kids either because i wouldn’t want her telling them they are evil and/or demon possessed. there are people who are protestants that say this to their kids in this day and age, and i think its abusive and cruel. i think it is damaging to their self esteem and their dignity as children of god.
its worse than saying they are sinners, they say they are evil or the devil.

 

[rwoehmke]

I have talked with people who act and talk like you have described. Most often they are not Catholic and have been influenced by self appointed clergy who have a ministry of exorcism. The nationally known preachers that some of them followed was a guy called Kenneth Hagin (now deceased, his Jr. carries on) and Kenneth Copeland. They would “plead the blood” and such prayers for protection from evil and pray over people for exorcism of evil spirits. Perhaps this woman has gotten a hold of some of their literature at a Christian Bookstore. Their are other similar preachers around as well.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Has anyone here ever had to deal with Catholic fanaticism? I mean those people who are obsessed with promoting the idea that demons and spirits exist and that they are possessing us at every opportunity.

The two mistakes you can make with demons is to think that they don’t exist, and to take much interest in them.

Inappropriate worship of the One True God is also superstition, and setting yourself up as an amateur exorcist is probably just that.A real exorcist makes a very careful examination of the facts before concluding that he is facing something demonic. He’s also a fully trained priest.

 

[cheddarsox]

Yes, I’ve had problems with this type of person.

Nothing like waking up in the middle of the night to see people praying over you with candles because they’ve decided your possesed by Satan because you wet the bed (age 5).

Very destructive.

Honestly…when they approach with their “demon talk” I’d say, “In the Name of Jesus Christ Silence!”

I do wonder if these poor souls are themselves subject to that which they fear most.

they can spread much fear and mischief.

Superstition is the enemy of faith.

 

[Other_Eric]

Honestly…when they approach with their “demon talk” I’d say, “In the Name of Jesus Christ Silence!”

To teach an individual to rid themselves of something they happen to find inconvenient by taking the Lord’s name in vain is deeply scandalous.