Catholic Friends Got Divorced - Now DATING others?!

[breye]

Hi all,
I am really concerned about my friend and her legally ex husband. They were married in the Catholic Church - both of them got annulments from early marriages (yes, this now raises a flag) and went into the marriage fully and within the Church. However, they were living together before marriage.
Not the point, it just annoys me. Anyways, 12 years later, they have 2 kids, she got “fixed” and they decided to divorce. She stayed at my house with her kids for a time, and my husband and I almost had her ready to go back - then he sent a nasty lawyer note. They were formally divorced, he had been sending the letters to their old address knowing she would not see them, and would miss the court date.
Worse, since she missed the court date, it looked bad in front of the judge, and he granted custody to the husband. She had to leave my home in a rush with her kids to get them 3 hours away before midnight. We learned of this that afternoon.
Now, he is trying to talk to me again. He blames it all on her, and SENT ME PICS OF HIS NEW GIRLFRIEND.
No, they do not have an annulment. No, they have no reason to get one.

What the heck should I do? I don’t want to alienate either one of them, but I am SO sick of this behavior.

Please, any advice is a help.
Thanks

 

[EasterJoy]

You ought to feel free to say, “Jim, do you remember how long Sarah and the kids were living at our house? I hope this isn’t going to offend you, but in any event: No, I am not ready to meet your new woman friend. I’m sorry. You may be all past your divorce and over Sarah and the whole nasty divorce, but it all still feels very new to me. I would not be good company, I’m afraid.”

And, by the way, it never ceases to amaze me how afraid people are that a friend who is doing something offensive to them might be offended if they let on that they dared to be offended by it. When did it happen that being a friend meant always giving a rubber stamp of approval of everything your friends think to do? It seems to me that if you’re willing to hear disapproval from your friends, you ought to feel free to admit when you disapprove. If you’re not willing to hear your friends ever voice disapproval…why not? Are we all so fragile we can’t soldier on if someone dares to question our choices at all?

 

[breye]

I am sorry you are going through this, please be assured of my prayers for your friends and their children. Clearly you are a very loving friend since you had your friend and her children living with you for a time, that speaks volumes of your love and how much you care for your friends!

I read your post twice and am uncertain of exactly what your question is. Is the husband-friend asking you to meet his girlfriend? That was not clear, is he asking you to approve? I think that there is nothing wrong with making cordial conversation with someone, you can easily avoid difficult topics. If you want to re-establish a friendship with this man, ask him about the weather, ask him how his job is going, asking him about his children would probably be the best. You can avoid talking about his girlfriend completely. If he brings it up simply say gently “I wish you the best but discussing that makes me uncomfortable.” Was that your question though I am not sure if the wife is also dating or what this former couple expects of you.

As for an annulment, you wrote in your post they have ‘no reason to get one’ but honestly that is for a tribunal to decide. There are things in a marriage and deep things about people that even their closest friends are unaware of but you probably already knew that since I believe you are married yourself.

Yes, my question was about approving of the dating. He said his local priest said is was okay, per (I can’t spell it) Letitius Amore. This brings up a whole new topic - I am so mad at the current Pope for confusing people! So, the crux of the issue: he said he is dating her, but not having “conjugal relations” and that is okay. I am glad he isn’t, but I still find it against Catechism, despite what he says. My question: Is it okay to date? Why did his priest say so?

 

[breye]

You ought to feel free to say, “Jim, do you remember how long Sarah and the kids were living at our house? I hope this isn’t going to offend you, but in any event: No, I am not ready to meet your new woman friend. I’m sorry. You may be all past your divorce and over Sarah and the whole nasty divorce, but it all still feels very new to me. I would not be good company, I’m afraid.”

And, by the way, it never ceases to amaze me how afraid people are that a friend who is doing something offensive to them might be offended if they let on that they dared to be offended by it. When did it happen that being a friend meant always giving a rubber stamp of approval of everything your friends think to do? It seems to me that if you’re willing to hear disapproval from your friends, you ought to feel free to admit when you disapprove. If you’re not willing to hear your friends ever voice disapproval…why not? Are we all so fragile we can’t soldier on if someone dares to question our choices at all?

I love your metaphor!!! You are correct - a true friend should feel okay voicing displeasure as well as congrats. I have already let him know I find his current (albeit legally divorced) marriage to be valid and therefore he is not welcome to bring this new woman to my home.

 

[breye]

I am sorry you are going through this, please be assured of my prayers for your friends and their children. Clearly you are a very loving friend since you had your friend and her children living with you for a time, that speaks volumes of your love and how much you care for your friends!

I read your post twice and am uncertain of exactly what your question is. Is the husband-friend asking you to meet his girlfriend? That was not clear, is he asking you to approve? I think that there is nothing wrong with making cordial conversation with someone, you can easily avoid difficult topics. If you want to re-establish a friendship with this man, ask him about the weather, ask him how his job is going, asking him about his children would probably be the best. You can avoid talking about his girlfriend completely. If he brings it up simply say gently “I wish you the best but discussing that makes me uncomfortable.”

As for an annulment, you wrote in your post they have ‘no reason to get one’ but honestly that is for a tribunal to decide. There are things in a marriage and deep things about people that even their closest friends are unaware of but you probably already knew that since I believe you are married yourself.

Yes, it is for a tribunal to decide. But I know, from both of them, the problems. As deep seated as marital problems can be, they shared, and now I know. The problems were not even worthy or a normal separation - they were just pissed off, and it spiraled! I watched it! No one should ever be given an annulment because they got pissed off. He has now formally asked for an annulment, and she is fighting it.

 

[angell1]

Yes, my question was about approving of the dating. He said his local priest said is was okay, per (I can’t spell it) Letitius Amore. This brings up a whole new topic - I am so mad at the current Pope for confusing people! So, the crux of the issue: he said he is dating her, but not having “conjugal relations” and that is okay. I am glad he isn’t, but I still find it against Catechism, despite what he says. My question: Is it okay to date? Why did his priest say so?

no, don’t blame the pope for doing his job, offering pastoral solutions for difficult circumstances.

I know it’s hard for us to understand, but those rare cases that he has in mind, where someone who is divorced and remarried in a situation which may constitute venial sin, are not your typical north-American no-fault divorce cases.

people take advantage of everything, and they were doing it long before Pope francis ever wrote any encyclicals

 

[jaimeleglise]

No, it is no okay for them to date new people. In God’s eyes they are still married to each other. It is unfair for them to seek your approval of their dating new people.

 

[EasterJoy]

I love your metaphor!!! You are correct - a true friend should feel okay voicing displeasure as well as congrats. I have already let him know I find his current (albeit legally divorced) marriage to be valid and therefore he is not welcome to bring this new woman to my home.

Sometimes people forget that ideas that have been broiling in their minds for a very long time and the grieving they have done over a broken relationship was done privately. Maybe your friend has known that he had no marriage at all for a very long time and has discerned it more carefully than you can know. For him, the end at his latest attempt at marriage may seem like a merciful death that finally came after fifteen bouts of chemotherapy. We can’t know.

Meanwhile, he may easily forget that his “new normal” was something he got used to over a span of time and went forward with when he was ready, while the whole thing is very new indeed for their friends and family. They, too, were witnesses and friends of his marriage. They, too, are naturally going to grieve the loss of a family unit that they ideally would have hoped to be the refuge of both of their friends and their children. It is not a matter of his giving permission or not–his friends and family will need time for their emotions to come around, even if this divorce was the exact right thing to do.

The other possibility, of course, as all of us who have been in or witnessed a “rebound” relationship can attest, is that sometimes jumping into a new relationship right away and before the last one has been worked through emotionally is a way to avoid the painful process of grieving and adjusting to the loss of a previous love. I would caution him that this often poisons the later relationship, turning it into something of a “throw-away.” That’s not fair to the person whose emotions have been brought onto this roller coaster with him.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, it is for a tribunal to decide. But I know, from both of them, the problems. As deep seated as marital problems can be, they shared, and now I know. The problems were not even worthy or a normal separation - they were just pissed off, and it spiraled! I watched it! No one should ever be given an annulment because they got pissed off. He has now formally asked for an annulment, and she is fighting it.

When someone winds up divorced over problems that would not even merit a separation for a typical couple, the cause can be that the relationship lacks an “immune system.” If you essentially have an emotional auto-immune disease or lack any ability to fight off normal problems that “infect” a relationship briefly, you’re a poor candidate to ever make a marriage last a lifetime.

 

[pnewton]

Yes, my question was about approving of the dating. He said his local priest said is was okay, per (I can’t spell it) Letitius Amore. This brings up a whole new topic - I am so mad at the current Pope for confusing people! So, the crux of the issue: he said he is dating her, but not having “conjugal relations” and that is okay. I am glad he isn’t, but I still find it against Catechism, despite what he says. My question: Is it okay to date? Why did his priest say so?

Don’t believe everything you hear second hand. This story sounds so bizarre as to be beyond belief. Amoris Laetitia does not cover or condone this type of jumping from marriage to marriage. It allows that some situations may need a more in depth pastoral approach, but it is always directed at spiritual growth, not slipping back into old habits and sins.

 

[Mike1955]

Hi all,
They were formally divorced, he had been sending the letters to their old address knowing she would not see them, and would miss the court date.
Worse, since she missed the court date, it looked bad in front of the judge, and he granted custody to the husband. She had to leave my home in a rush with her kids to get them 3 hours away before midnight. We learned of this that afternoon.

I am disturbed at the idea that he was deliberately sending legal papers to an address that he knew she was not using. The judge might be disturbed by this tactic. The wife might want to bring this up in court, to have the child custody-visitation issues re-visited. Sometimes if proper notice was not given, the court will re-decide the issues as if the prior ruling had not been made. (Called a “de novo review.”) But time is of the essence.